Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

I find it unlikely that CCP would allow for Dust mercs to leverage EVE assets such that a big corp like GSA would be able to throw around billions without a second thought. Not every Dust corp will have an EVE connection. Allowing EVE finances to transfer over unrestricted would mean that only EVE-backed corps will be competitive in Dust. That probably isn't a direction they want to take the game.

Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

I am not talking about that at all. I am talking about inflating the number of respawns to out compete high K:D/r players. It would be an effective tactic if the goal is to run the clock out. As was said in another thread, 1 billion ISK is nothing in EVE and I can tell you the same will be true in DUST. No GSA required.

Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

There are a lot of great threads today discussing DUST/EVE integration and what the game will play like. Good points all around but the debate seems to continually shift into a K:D/r debate. Something that I think everyone is forgetting is that both sides get to deploy the number of clones they feel is necessary to accomplish the objective. That means the corporation with the most ISK will be able to field the most clones.

In EVE part of why GSA dominate is because they are capable of going 4:1 in numbers. Clones will serve this same purpose. K:D/r is irrelevant if the enemy goes collectively 5k:1d as long as your team is able to field 5 times the clones + your teams collective losses.

I understand that most FPS players can't even be bothered to read long forum posts so most of you won't bother with math... But rest assured, there are guys like me that will apply statistical analysis and crank out all plenty of theoretical totals just to ensure my corporation gets the win.

Remember, the meta-game is everything.

Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

The goons are proud of their accomplishments, they use mass to overrun everyone else. they dont care about kdr they care about territroy and is easy to be proud over own and controlling territroy rather than a high kdr.

I find it unlikely that CCP would allow for Dust mercs to leverage EVE assets such that a big corp like GSA would be able to throw around billions without a second thought. Not every Dust corp will have an EVE connection. Allowing EVE finances to transfer over unrestricted would mean that only EVE-backed corps will be competitive in Dust. That probably isn't a direction they want to take the game.

You are aware that there is also a clone count on objective based games aswell right?

The only way I believe that zerging can be executed effectively in Dust, is the timed assaults on multiple regions of enemy territory.

This is all speculation though... I could be completely wrong.

On a last note, although I do agree with the opinion that metagiming is going to play a fundimental part of Dust. I don't think that it's going to always be a case of who has the bigger wallet.

There are various paths to victory... wealth is only 1.

I wanna go back to this post, because I think there's some misunderstandings worth addressing.

Specifically, the concept of "EVE-backed corps". We have a lot of people who are thinking of EVE and DUST as separate and distinct worlds that interact in a few gimmicky ways. The way CCP is taking this indicates otherwise. DUST corps and EVE corps are the same thing. When we go live you'll be able to join a corp founded and run by capsuleers just like one of them.

So we have to stop thinking of it in terms of "corp with better EVE friends" and start thinking in terms of "corp with better resources". Because the resources that EVE corp has are your resources, and vice versa.

This same basic principle even applies to the current skirmish matches. I've yet to encounter a skirmish match that was determined by one side's clones being depleted. Thus, the zerg rush can actually be pretty effective.

I've had a squad hold almost an entire opposing team to a single objective simply by surrounding it with Uplinks and continously spawning and rushing the objective. All of a sudden, 4 guys each only lasting 5 seconds or so a life, can feel like an onslaught from an entire team.

So, just as a hypothetical, let's imagine my team has 2 objectives and yours has 1. If my team can zerg rush your team at that 1 objective and effectively hold your team there in a constant state of defense, it doesn't matter if your team goes 5:1 and my team goes 1:5... we will win the match because your MCC will fall before ours does.

Sure, it's may not be as "brag worthy" from the perspective of the FPS veteran who thinks in terms of KDR, but from the perspective of "play smarter, not harder" it's pretty brag worthy to say "we outsmarted you, won the match, and did it CHEAPER too".

I'll put my stick skills up against probably all but the top 10-15% of console FPS players out there, but I'm perfectly willing to go into negative KDR for a match if there's a tactical advantage to doing so... and if you can't see any tactical reasons for ever going negative, then IMO that just shows a lack of understanding of the bigger picture and makes you a less valuable player both on AND off the battlefield.

What if your team actually loses because your zerg rush exhausted your entire clone reserve?

Will you feel proud then?

Both sides have a unit cap.


KD will play a massive roll when both sides are filled. The side with the worst general KD will lose.


it's really as simple as that.

For those interested in knowing, the score/leaderboard will be changing soon. The new 'important stat' is ISK Efficiency. Doing as much damage as possible with little losses. The scoreboard will also list warpoint gain as well, further shifting focus away from KDR.

Not entirely. On an ambush map, you're right. But the rules seem to change with skirmish maps.

Just today I fought in a Skirmish Map where my team held all 5 objectives with absolutely no trouble. A few enemy mercs tried to hack one objective here and there, but they were quickly countered early in the game. The rest of the match was just basically cornering the opposing team on their own default spawn points. Of course, we won.

But here is the quirk in the whole thing. My team had the absolute worst KDR in the match without one or two of us having double digits (even then their score was low). The opposing team, who we just face r a p e d the whole match, had an astonishing KDR across the board with some of their players reaching high double digits whole the rest had moderate double digits. I found it to be completely odd.

There are a lot of great threads today discussing DUST/EVE integration and what the game will play like. Good points all around but the debate seems to continually shift into a K:D/r debate. Something that I think everyone is forgetting is that both sides get to deploy the number of clones they feel is necessary to accomplish the objective. That means the corporation with the most ISK will be able to field the most clones.

In EVE part of why GSA dominate is because they are capable of going 4:1 in numbers. Clones will serve this same purpose. K:D/r is irrelevant if the enemy goes collectively 5k:1d as long as your team is able to field 5 times the clones + your teams collective losses.

I understand that most FPS players can't even be bothered to read long forum posts so most of you won't bother with math... But rest assured, there are guys like me that will apply statistical analysis and crank out all plenty of theoretical totals just to ensure my corporation gets the win.

Remember, the meta-game is everything.

Have you seen that happen yet? I sure haven't. I guess it's possible, but it's yet to have been an issue.

If such a thing DID happen, then yeah, that was a bad plan and my squad would necessarily be required to feel bad.

Errr, no. The problem is that you don't understand how Dust has to work. You can't just field 5 times the clones for a match, because that would make a match take 5 times as long. That's not something they're going to do.

Interesting... if that is indeed how it works. Either way that is an interesting point, even though being able to have a terrible K/D and still winning is nothing to really be proud of.

Silly vets and silly ISK-nerds.

It's not about simply Zerg rushing nor is it simply about K/D R. It's about conquering the enemy. Plain and simple. There will always be a way to do so.

Look at past wars where people had smaller numbers but actually won or fought surprisingly well.

While you guys storm the battlefield with a crap load of soldiers or focus on strictly offensive tactics my corporation's mercs will be communicating and planning on how to take you down.

Oh the enemy is running around in tanks? Shock-Troopers with Swarm Launchers.

Oh your crew is known for rushing the field? We place sniper rifles on the strategic points and close you in to the point where you're nothing but easy picking targets.

Your corp has the best snipers in the known Universe? Recon and Infiltration teams are a go.

Oh so your corporation is known for their K/D R? Underhanded tactics and preemptive strategies will be of the topic.

I don't care what you guys say. If your leaders don't command smart, you have the highest chance of losing. Backed up with 500+ ISK or known for your skill as killers.

Can't believe people are debating this. Lol. Guess that just mean there are a lot of naive Mercs out there that my corp will either make into tacticians or crush under their feet.

Silly vets and silly ISK-nerds.

It's not about simply Zerg rushing nor is it simply about K/D R. It's about conquering the enemy. Plain and simple. There will always be a way to do so.

Look at past wars where people had smaller numbers but actually won or fought surprisingly well.

While you guys storm the battlefield with a crap load of soldiers or focus on strictly offensive tactics my corporation's mercs will be communicating and planning on how to take you down.

Oh the enemy is running around in tanks? Shock-Troopers with Swarm Launchers.

Oh your crew is known for rushing the field? We place sniper rifles on the strategic points and close you in to the point where you're nothing but easy picking targets.

Your corp has the best snipers in the known Universe? Recon and Infiltration teams are a go.

Oh so your corporation is known for their K/D R? Underhanded tactics and preemptive strategies will be of the topic.

I don't care what you guys say. If your leaders don't command smart, you have the highest chance of losing. Backed up with 500+ ISK or known for your skill as killers.

Can't believe people are debating this. Lol. Guess that just mean there are a lot of naive Mercs out there that my corp will either make into tacticians or crush under their feet.

too bad that isn't going to be how it works. the power of money will beat the tar out of any corp not backed by a true corp. fielding unlimited top tier min maxed tanks everyone is vomiting out is going to be impossible to "tactician" out of. get your kitten rockets and all the stuff you can try to take them out. but if you blow one up another one will spawn. you obviously don't know the power of isk and real backers. when the dreadnaughts come and strips the planet of your presence that will be the true test.

you can talk about kill death all you want, it's not going to matter if you don't get a real corp behind you.

>.> Didn't I just say Kill/Death doesn't matter? See. You're one of those silly-ISK nerds. When it comes to smaller factions vs larger factions strategy has and can help the smaller faction win.

And besides it would be pretty stupid for a Corp, no matter how large, to continuously feed money to back up IN-EFFICIENT players. Wtf spends money on a merc corp that's going to die a lot every time, and waste money (and let's be honest having a noob with militia/cheaper equips against a skilled fighter with prototype equips will almost always have the skilled fighter winning) trying to swarm? And like I said if they're just "swarming" there will be ways of dealing with them because of their inflexibility.

The goons are proud of their accomplishments, they use mass to overrun everyone else. they dont care about kdr they care about territroy and is easy to be proud over own and controlling territroy rather than a high kdr.

Errr, no. The problem is that you don't understand how Dust has to work. You can't just field 5 times the clones for a match, because that would make a match take 5 times as long. That's not something they're going to do.

KDR isn't everything, so what you have 9 028 468 767 372:1 KDR here's your cookie and complimentary ***** pump. If you can't win a match, is anyone going to care what your KDR is aside from you and your mommy? Are you going to get contracts?

No, WLR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KDR.

I'm curious as to why Ray thinks that only his corp will use strategery and everyone else will simply be running around shooting in random directions. I'm guessing he hasn't seen the level of organization large EVE corps have.

Who the"HELL" has been into my wild turkey, I'ma gonna get my gun and GETTER DONE...