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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Loving the game, enjoying the depth of upcoming enhancements... only one thing bugs me...
With myself playing on Asia / Australian Servers, even at our own peak time, we are running half full matches, 1v1s, 2v2s and some 4v4s... yet, people on local from the US, or Europe are constantly saying their servers are 'full'?
I was under the distinct impression that this game would herald a Single Shard server, just like that used in EVE Online... in fact I saw somewhere that it was a 'Feature' listed as part of the game...
So why, when some of these 'battle servers' are full, and so many are empty, are we not being put into the same battles?
Answer... matchmaking is assigning us to Battle Servers... and we are not on a Single Shard System.... yet.. Singularity is a Single Shard system?
How does this work? Whenm in EVE... I don't jump to Dodixie planet IV, AUSTRALIAN Node... while my mate in the US, jumps to Dodixie planet IV, US Node......
So I want to know, where is this Single Shard that CCP made famous, and is supposed to be a feature of DUST 514 as it is in EVE? |
a dirty Shisno
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
130
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
When you play an Instant Battle you are participating in your standard matchmaking. At least for right now those battles are taking place on a local server cluster to place you in matches you will feel comfortable playing in with minimal lag.
However the battles in the Faction Warfare and Corporation Battles will be able to be played by anyone in the world, and it is these that should be all located in one place in the world with hopefully minimal lag to everyone everywhere. |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
basically Tranquility is the single shard server. if you go to any system in new eden from anywhere in the world, anyone in the world can go to that system and see you in local, they can also perform economic transactions and talk business.
The reason that currently match making is being devided into regions is to reduce lag as an american fighting on an Asian server can cause a horrendous amount of lag and impact gameplay.
from what i understand, this is what it will be like for high sec games. Matching players up on skill and geographic locations to reduce lag. However Low sec will not be match maker. anyone can join or initiate a battle in a planet in low sec and it will just be a matter of risk.
I hope this clears a few things up |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah kind of along the lines of what was said before, we're all on the same network of servers, but Instant Battle is going to try and group you with people who have a similar ping. Once they let us go back to the traditional battle select list, you'll be able to join any game you want, even if its non Asia region. It is a beta so they're just testing the Instant Battle matchmaking system really. |
Cassini Eskiath
1
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Agreed on the empty matches as a problem. I don't play all that much, partly because of this, but when I do I tend to run into the same few players each time, often in matches with only a couple of people on each team. I'm not brilliant, so by now I can often predict the outcome of a match just by checking the players on either team. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 07:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP is implementing a system where you connect to a local authoritative node to minimize impact of lag, and that node communicates with other nodes involved in the battle.
So you connect to the Asian node, the battle rages across US/Asia/EU and when you shoot someone the Asian node and (e.g.) EU node try to figure out together if you hit that EU player or not. This is based on some old whitepaper by one of the CCP devs, but obviously it seems they've not yet deployed this. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 08:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:basically Tranquility is the single shard server. if you go to any system in new eden from anywhere in the world, anyone in the world can go to that system and see you in local, they can also perform economic transactions and talk business.
The reason that currently match making is being devided into regions is to reduce lag as an american fighting on an Asian server can cause a horrendous amount of lag and impact gameplay.
from what i understand, this is what it will be like for high sec games. Matching players up on skill and geographic locations to reduce lag. However Low sec will not be match maker. anyone can join or initiate a battle in a planet in low sec and it will just be a matter of risk.
I hope this clears a few things up
Singularity is also a Single Shard... that's why they test EVE on it (now EVE and DUST) and it behaves the same way with EVE as Tranquility does.
High sec should be no different.
I'm all for 'Battle Servers' in general.. as 'quick match' options... but leaving one geographical location so threadbare as the Asia Pacific region, wheras in previous builds pre-Asia Server... I played with lag, and still managed to have fun... you compensate for said 'latency' after a while... and being Australian, we've had it with almost every single MMO out...
What I'm saying is, that in addition to core gameplay mechanics, this should be a high priority... high sec battles should be able to be run with AU, US, and UK people as well... regional limitations will... limit what can happen.. and EVE is about no limits...
As in EVE, it shouldn't matter where you play, you should still share the same space as everyone else.. battlefields on planets included... or, as a hypothetical situation...
Month 1) New player uses Quick Battles to get used to the game, get some SP, etc. does fairly well... while assigned to Server location A with stable 20ms latency.
Month 2) Said new player joins Corp Alpha... they are a Factional Warfare Corporation and suddenly... he's dealing with 100-200ms latency... he's gotten used to the pre-factional latency and now he's screwed... he has a large adjustment to make, while still trying to maintain his profit margins, equipment, and prove he''s useful to his new corp.
Get the picture?
If he'd been at 100ms stable from the start (even if they artificially instigate a 100ms latency on people in those locations) there is no period of adjustment. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't know how they will do it, but Im not playing an FPS game with a 200 ping against people with 20, the only way we'd have a chance is if every australian and asian becomes a tank *****.
One thought i had on the subject would be to host the battles according to their time in eve, for example if a battle takes place at 0900 gmt (AU primetime) the battle takes place on an AU server. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 18:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
a dirty Shisno wrote:When you play an Instant Battle you are participating in your standard matchmaking. At least for right now those battles are taking place on a local server cluster to place you in matches you will feel comfortable playing in with minimal lag.
However the battles in the Faction Warfare and Corporation Battles will be able to be played by anyone in the world, and it is these that should be all located in one place in the world with hopefully minimal lag to everyone everywhere.
I understand what you are saying and think "in theory" that's how it should work,but the fact is that's just not the case as far as lag is concerned.
I was in two matches yesterday,first ambush then skirmish,and they were hands down the laggiest experiences that I've ever had playing the beta thus far.I couldn't even walk two steps without superlag happening,and it got to the point to where I just had to turn it off.
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Virex Staz
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2012.09.26 18:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Global, single-shard, multi-server. Highly latency-sensitive game. Something's going to give.
I imagine they'll move battlefields across data centres "following the sun", such that most battles are hosted on servers near where most players (in that battle) are.
If you are in an NZ/Aus based corp and you pick a fight in your prime-time with another NZ/Aus corp, chances are it'll load the battlefield on an AsiaPac node.
If you are playing at 5am with a load of people from Europe or East-coast US or something, expect the lag monster to grab you by the nuts and squeeze.
I think the Dust situation is probably better than Eve, for 2 reasons:-
1. Eve doesn't have regional data centres at all 2. Eve can't put different fights (grids) in the same star system on different nodes |
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DOCTORHITDETECTOR
18
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Posted - 2012.09.26 19:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
MAG managed this and more. Alright after the first year the americans had the advantage of only a server left in the US, but it was still playable world wide. This is not, it's a joke going on anything but your area. So much for WWW. This is a group killer a clan killer in the end a game killer.
EDIT.......... DCUO was a massive fail for just this reason. Take note CCP. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 21:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just logged intoa game at 6:30am AEST...
I got put into a Skirmish, from the start, by myself...
I waited, and waited, but not a single other person joined me...
0630 AEST (+10 UTC)
Equivalent roughly to:
2030 (+0 UTC) 8:30pm London / Iceland Time... should should have been a fair few European Gamers online in my opinion.
1530 (-5 UTC) 3:30pm US Time... Granted I'm not sure on what 'School Days' entail in the United States as to times... but generally US gamers in other MMOs, and FPS are swarming over the servers...
Even someone complaining on the local about servers being full...
Now... tell me what is wrong with that picture. One entire game onb the 'Asia Pacific Servers' from start to finish for ONE person... while people can't get into a game due to 'Full Servers'...
Also, on the same topic... I play Battlefield 3 these days (legacy of my brother) on both Asia Pacific Servers, and US Servers, and while there is obviously some additonal lag on US Servers, the impact of this on the game is minimal... And I live in Australia, one of the worst gaming countries in the world for MMOs due to high latencies anywhere but in our own region.
I don't want this to fail. I want this game to be the epic monster I believe it will be. I'm even organising my own Corporation built around DUST 514... I have mates I gave codes to get into Beta so they'd enjoy it and bug hunt alongside me. I want the interaction with EVE to go off the scale, and this 'world first' cross-platform / cross-genre monolith to redefine the way games interact.
But, this is a huge hole in the fabric of the game. Single Shard Servers, lag minimization, cross-continental games when regional servers are empty...
Please, for the love of New Eden (which I adore beyond compare in MMO Gaming) do this game the justice it so richly deserves.
The Black Jackal |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 04:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
I just can't see your point jackal, if no one in the AU is playing no one is playing, if they shunted US and EU players over to fill our servers it would be a horrible experience for them and vice versa.
I'd rather not play if they pushed me into US servers when the AU pop is low, new AU players have a hard enough time without being thrown into 200 ping games where you need to lag shoot like its 1996, I guess a good compromise would be to allow us to customize the instant battle a bit like selecting what servers it can throw you into. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 05:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
The opint I'm making is that there shouldn't be regional servers...
None at all...
Single Shard = Centralized Server with nodes... not multiple servers each servicing a region.
And the point was actually the reverse if using the battle servers... they were getting full servers, we were empty.... now wouldn't it be an idea to move those players who complain of full sertvers to empty servers?
Matchmaking atm... for UK/ US Servers
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Queue in for Instant Battle... Enter Game near end... 1 minute shooting Game ends.
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Queue in for Instant Battle... Server Full... Unqueued
Now for AU Players...
Queue in for Instant Battle... Enter Game with 5-6 people.
Queue in for Instant Battle... Enter Game with 3-4 people.
Queue in for Instant Battle... Enter Game... All alone...
So even under the 'Battle Servers' method, this doesn't work... One Region is completely dead, the other flooded...
I still support Single Shard... Not Regional Servers! |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
324
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 06:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
I see a lot of people here missing the point. Single shard doesn't have anything to do with details of how infrastructure works behind the scenes. Most MMOs divide players up by server names (shards), and you can create a character on any of them. If you're on the Tunare server you can't interact with someone who is on the Vallon Zek server. You are forever divided by that barrier. Eve doesn't have that. It's a single universe, meaning that I can fly to any system in the galaxy and talk to / attack / scam whoever is there.
Dust shares the same backbone as Eve, meaning our Dust mercs are actually present in one of those solar systems and can interact with Eve players inside the game. That is what single shard means. No more, no less. The idea that all the fps servers would be kept in a single location in the world is patently absurd. No amount of fancy technical trickery to improve the performance of the servers themselves will overcome the fact that a player on the other side of the planet will have an atrocious level of latency. Individual battles will have a capped number of players on each team. CCP has even talked about this, and how they'd like to eventually raise it to 64 players on each side.
That ability to interact with the Eve players is the one thing that sets Dust apart. It means that the battles we fight will have a larger impact than your k/d ratio. It means you'll have a reason to fight that isn't just bragging rights. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 09:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:I see a lot of people here missing the point. Single shard doesn't have anything to do with details of how infrastructure works behind the scenes. Most MMOs divide players up by server names (shards), and you can create a character on any of them. If you're on the Tunare server you can't interact with someone who is on the Vallon Zek server. You are forever divided by that barrier. Eve doesn't have that. It's a single universe, meaning that I can fly to any system in the galaxy and talk to / attack / scam whoever is there.
Dust shares the same backbone as Eve, meaning our Dust mercs are actually present in one of those solar systems and can interact with Eve players inside the game. That is what single shard means. No more, no less. The idea that all the fps servers would be kept in a single location in the world is patently absurd. No amount of fancy technical trickery to improve the performance of the servers themselves will overcome the fact that a player on the other side of the planet will have an atrocious level of latency. Individual battles will have a capped number of players on each team. CCP has even talked about this, and how they'd like to eventually raise it to 64 players on each side.
That ability to interact with the Eve players is the one thing that sets Dust apart. It means that the battles we fight will have a larger impact than your k/d ratio. It means you'll have a reason to fight that isn't just bragging rights.
It is not the one thing that sets it apart. It is one thing of many.
Loss of investment.. economy, both are things that this game has that sets it apart.
Now, back to the issue at hand... Single Shard is, as you have stated, interacting with everyone at your 'in game' location. Being able to fleet, group, join with said people, or kill them... no matter where in the world you are.
Now, as I have stated above, this does not happen. How do you determine what 'server' a battle takes place on in Factional Warfare? Multiple people from across the globe will want in on Factional Warfare... and in the same battle. Should two of the stated regions be hampered because one was selected over the other.
In this instance, Single Shard should mean that, even if they have to artificially create latency for the 'home region' server to level the playing field.
I play from AU, I join game 'Attack Slave Encampment' alongside 3 UK guys, 3 US guys, and 3 other AU guys. Now, how do we determine latency? Do we attempt to minimise lag for everyone and pick a point in the middle of the three locations to have the server? giving everyone of those people a 50ms lag... nice hey?
Wait.. that server is in... let's say Hong Kong. Suddenly 2 players from Hong kong log into the same match. Their latency is 10-20ms... now they, with equal skills to the other players, gain a large edge in dominating the battlefield.
As said before. I play Battlefield 3 on US Servers as well as Australian... The 'LAG' is barely noticeable... why? I have no idea... that's DICE's secret to have. But that same principal should be applied here to allow cross continental and cross TZ play... I HATE being online for hours with solo matches constantly one after the other, or facing the same group of people (no matter how fun it is to play with them) over and over again.
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HK-40
120
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 09:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
I guess this will all cease when we move to the EVE server proper.
CCP are only (from what I understand) keeping us on separate servers for the beta test. Come EVE integration we are on the worldwide server, minus China I guess.
No big deal at present, though the same people over and over is a bit frustrating - I am also on the Aus/Asian server. |
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