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ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been looking at the capital ships in EVE and it got me wondering why can't they deal damage to the mcc like they would any other ship? This isn't a request I just want to know how things work in new edin |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
404
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a great question and there's no reason they shouldn't. MCC has a lot of hitpoints and could prolly install serious anti-missile missiles. We call those 'Defender' missiles in EVE. |
Mr Funless
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
191
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
EVE ships can't shoot stuff on planets, yet. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
^ I know they can't and that they never will. I just want to know why a Titan can't doomsday an mcc |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mr Funless wrote:EVE ships can't shoot stuff on planets, yet.
i doubt they ever will. other than indirect fire. orbital bombardments and such.
would of been great to just shoot direct. pull out my bomb launcher just to coat everything in a fine layer of fire. |
I-SHAYZ-I
24
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Are you asking why one MCC doesn't attack the other?
Well they do. Scope in on one of the MCCs and its HP will slowly go down even though no one has captured an objective or attacking it.
Not very powerful attacks, but there's still damage being done. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:^ I know they can't and that they never will. I just want to know why a Titan can't doomsday an mcc
Because a single shot from a Doomsday module fitted on a Titan such an Erebus, Avatar, Leviathan, or Ragnarok is simply an instant-win button. The Doomsday module is designed to take out other ships in one shot... except when facing another Titan. Dreadnaughts are no doubt going to be a part of orbital bombardments. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
I-SHAYZ-I wrote:Are you asking why one MCC doesn't attack the other?
Well they do. Scope in on one of the MCCs and its HP will slowly go down even though no one has captured an objective or attacking it.
Not very powerful attacks, but there's still damage being done.
I know the the mcc's attack each other . But what I want to know is what prevent the bigger ships In eve (the ones that will be providing air support) from attacking the mcc directly. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:I-SHAYZ-I wrote:Are you asking why one MCC doesn't attack the other?
Well they do. Scope in on one of the MCCs and its HP will slowly go down even though no one has captured an objective or attacking it.
Not very powerful attacks, but there's still damage being done. I know the the mcc's attack each other . But what I want to know is what prevent the bigger ships In eve (the ones that will be providing air support) from attacking the mcc directly.
CCP will allow it later on. They're just doing it one step at a time. As of right now, you can use orbital bombardment from a warbarge against an MCC. But the damage is so minimal it's not worth the wasted effort. |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
311
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is actually a pretty good question. It also got me thinking, what happens if you direct an orbital bombardment directly bellow an MCC? Since it is coming from space would it hit the MCC? |
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ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.09.27 17:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
bump? |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2012.09.27 17:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
I doubt this will ever be implemented, seeing as the hp between Eve and Dust is no even 1:1. I'm not sure if an effective scale could even be implemented. For example.
My Golem in Eve:
Approx 10k ehp in shields.
Can tank 2k dps
And can deal out 800 or so dps with missiles and drones.
By Dust standards, this roughly 3 billion isk setup would equate to basically 1 Sagaris before the hotfix if it was 1:1. (I trade off Regen rate for the extra 10k ehp tanks used to have.)
And the hp of my ship is laughable compared to a MCC. Which leads me to believe that there would have to be some kind of scale in place.
Now if I remember correctly, MCC's have something like 100k shp, someone correct me if I got this wrong, I don't have the game in front of me. But if memory serves me well, that would mean to make my golem have as much hp as a MCC it would need almost a 1:10 scale, which would pump up my dps to 8000. This would give me over a 50k alpha strike damage against the mcc. I could kill it in 2-4 shots.
The only way CCP could make this work is to implement the kind of shield boosters we have in Eve into Dust, but if they do that, the kind of damage a Null cannon currently does would be like a mosquito bite, and battles would have to be won by Fleet forces in orbit.
Maybe CCP could pump up the dps of Null Cannons... I would hate to be in a battle where the enemy could just infinitely tank all of the maps null cannons.
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2012.09.27 17:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:^ I know they can't and that they never will. I just want to know why a Titan can't doomsday an mcc
Because it'd be condorded too quickly? 
Dust matches are currently only in High Sec (beta setup) with a roll out to Low Sec (FW involvement) at launch (AFAIK).
In either case Titans aren't really invited to the party (or am I suffering insomnia brain rot again and you can jump Titian into Low? In which case ignore this  ).
In either case the question becomes very legit when Dust hits Null and I'd be very interested to see how these things are addressed  |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.09.27 17:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yes, it hits mcc, damage is not worth it apparently though.
MCC is a small ship by eve standards, dreads would have trouble hitting it and have many misses causing huge blasts radius around battle field.
MCC and Warbarge can not be targeted for game balance, for realism they should be target-able. If CCP comes up with way to balance EvE ships targeting Dust ships they'll add it. It's a tough problem to solve though, so a fluff excuse or ignore why they can't be targeted is more likely. Maybe the planets proximity interferes with target lock? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2012.09.27 17:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Yes, it hits mcc, damage is not worth it apparently though.
MCC is a small ship by eve standards, dreads would have trouble hitting it and have many misses causing huge blasts radius around battle field.
MCC and Warbarge can not be targeted for game balance, for realism they should be target-able. If CCP comes up with way to balance EvE ships targeting Dust ships they'll add it. It's a tough problem to solve though, so a fluff excuse or ignore why they can't be targeted is more likely. Maybe the planets proximity interferes with target lock?
Planets much have one kitten of a sig radius so I'd buy that as a fluffy patch  |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2012.09.27 18:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Ten-Sidhe wrote:Yes, it hits mcc, damage is not worth it apparently though.
MCC is a small ship by eve standards, dreads would have trouble hitting it and have many misses causing huge blasts radius around battle field.
MCC and Warbarge can not be targeted for game balance, for realism they should be target-able. If CCP comes up with way to balance EvE ships targeting Dust ships they'll add it. It's a tough problem to solve though, so a fluff excuse or ignore why they can't be targeted is more likely. Maybe the planets proximity interferes with target lock? Planets much have one kitten of a sig radius so I'd buy that as a fluffy patch
I don't know if I'd believe that a civilization, 21334 years in the future, could not figure out how to target a position on a planets surface from space. Something we were able to do in the 60's. Frankly I find the idea that we need target painters on the ground to guide our shots laughable. But gameplay must be protected.
If CCP wanted to make this as real as possible, dust simply would not happen. It would be far cheaper to simply park your dread's over an enemy planet and drop 1 or 2 shots to wipe out an entire installation and then replace them with your own. Well, maybe I speak in haste, Maybe the free market will adjust prices to the point that using Mercenaries will actually be cheaper than a few missiles. How would we like to be paid a few pennies for our efforts on the ground? Maybe buy a tank for 10 isk? |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.09.27 18:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
We are on a null sec planet, orbital strike said to not be allowed in hisec, match making we are testing is for high sec. We are in every sec at once.
The can't target near planet is more an excuse then real reason, to maintain balance. Dust merc would have realistic place, just could be one shoted from space by a week old eve noob. So, EvE players can't target ground due to game balance.
Also, sensors that are great in space may be poor to target ground, 1960 we only needed to target near ground so that what we developed. EvE ships had no reason to target ground, although this doesn't explain why they wouldn't quickly add capability once need appeared. Concord forbidden? Plausible excuse to disallow will be easier for ccp then balancing mcc vs eve ship combat. |
Simon Havoc
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
26
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Posted - 2012.09.27 19:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
I cannot believe no one has suggested this yet....
Its possible and easily conceivable that the answer lies with 2 instances. The MC Docking with the other base (in the escort style missions) or the zone controls. To quote one of my favorite pre-taint movies...
"The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment". SHIELDS! OH THATS RIGHT! Planetary SHIELDS!. Little domes that cover a portion of the sky but not the ground level edges. Soo.. MCC drops to surface, goes in UNDER shield, as as... ahh dammit.. as players send weaker orbital bombardments through said shields and hit the planet.
Brain + gun = kapush. Brain moosh.
Sooo...yeah lets just go with a titan is way to expensive an asset to waste on little dust mites.. |
Whispercrow
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2012.09.27 23:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
No, an Orbital Bombardment from a Doomsday Device would be an instant you lose button, to everyone and everything on the map, as they would all be obliterated.
I'm just hoping there will be DIFFERENT bombardments. Like, one for missiles, one for arty, one for lasters, etc. All we have right now is the generic 'blue-white beam effect'. I'd really like to see different ones based on the attacking weapons, but I get this impression it will just be the one type, which makes me a sad panda. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.09.28 21:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:ugg reset wrote:^ I know they can't and that they never will. I just want to know why a Titan can't doomsday an mcc Because it'd be condorded too quickly? Dust matches are currently only in High Sec (beta setup) with a roll out to Low Sec (FW involvement) at launch (AFAIK). In either case Titans aren't really invited to the party (or am I suffering insomnia brain rot again and you can jump Titian into Low? In which case ignore this ). In either case the question becomes very legit when Dust hits Null and I'd be very interested to see how these things are addressed
thanks for reminding me about concord. i hadn't thought of that. |
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ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.09.28 21:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Whispercrow wrote: No, an Orbital Bombardment from a Doomsday Device would be an instant you lose button, to everyone and everything on the map, as they would all be obliterated.
I'm just hoping there will be DIFFERENT bombardments. Like, one for missiles, one for arty, one for lasters, etc. All we have right now is the generic 'blue-white beam effect'. I'd really like to see different ones based on the attacking weapons, but I get this impression it will just be the one type, which makes me a sad panda.
to recap
ugg reset wrote:This isn't a request I just want to know how things work in new edin
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SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.09.29 07:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
It is interesting that EVE ships will require special ammo for shooting into the atmosphere. Lots of the shots energy is lost in the atmosphere, so they require special rounds.
Hitting the MCC would be an interesting idea. I wonder what the Dev's think about the idea? |
Miju Yamamoto
7
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Posted - 2012.09.29 22:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:We are on a null sec planet, orbital strike said to not be allowed in hisec, match making we are testing is for high sec. We are in every sec at once.
The can't target near planet is more an excuse then real reason, to maintain balance. Dust merc would have realistic place, just could be one shoted from space by a week old eve noob. So, EvE players can't target ground due to game balance.
Also, sensors that are great in space may be poor to target ground, 1960 we only needed to target near ground so that what we developed. EvE ships had no reason to target ground, although this doesn't explain why they wouldn't quickly add capability once need appeared. Concord forbidden? Plausible excuse to disallow will be easier for ccp then balancing mcc vs eve ship combat.
Actually, if you open your starmap, you'll find that the system were in is not only null sec, but also inaccessible via jump gating. The only way in or out of this little star cluster is to be transported by a CCP Admin/Dev. That way the test server can remain open to Eve players without interfering with Dust development process on the test live server.
I could be a little off, but that's what I deduce by looking at where we are on the starmap, three years in Eve, and two weeks trying to find my way into the star cluster with my Anathema on the live server.
Almost forgot. If ships in orbit were allowed to freely target ground locations, there would be no need for Dust mercs. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.29 23:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
They may have defense systems similar ot stations. |
xeto rak
Epidemic.
Space Immigration
23
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Posted - 2012.09.29 23:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
The MCC is a small ship, probably a lot smaller than a battleship and does not look capital to me. The war barge would we cool to blast. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
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Posted - 2012.09.29 23:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
xeto rak wrote:The MCC is a small ship, probably a lot smaller than a battleship and does not look capital to me. The war barge would we cool to blast.
I suspect the war barge will be carrier class and it's "Fighters/Drones" will be MCC's |
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