DUST Search - Enough with the "pay to win" argument! Let's be real...

Kane Fyea wrote:

EVICER wrote:

Jin Robot wrote:

Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not.

How old are you ?What is this recent trend in people online thinking that these games are supposed to be free and there the same one that hardley even play the game and also ***** about lag.....HELLO NO ONE IS PAYING FOR THE SERVER TO BE MAINTAINED!!!!!!!

You got 2 lives for Street Fighter when it first came out in the arcades.....what in the hell is the matter with you people when in the whole history of games have they ever been free to play. Go up to one of the carnies you know the ones that look like they've been awake for 3 days on meth and tell him you wanna pitch at the bottles for the biggest bear for your girl(if you Have one) and you want as many chances as it gonna take for free............see what he says.Some people are complete and utter dumb A$$es I swear to god.....Im sorry man but if your not contributing monetarily to the upkeep of the server,the hourly wage of those technicians,maintenance/replacement for the hardware,advertising,development of the game and dlc............then you leaving is no great loss to the community...dont let the door smash ya in the a$$.GTFO so I dont have to hear all the pissing and moaning....Thats my message for all theUnemployed,waffle eatin,mother basement dwelling neck beards.

5 Star Post right there.

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mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:23:00 - [1] - Quote This game is NOT pay to win. (at least not now, and won't be unless things drastically change) Pay to Win = Average players being able to purchase gear with real $$$, and then dominate the players w/o purchased gear. There are some games out there with this problem. Dust is NOT one. Many games find a way to REASONABLY balance paid gear with free gear. In this case the paid gear gives a SLIGHT advantage, but not so much so that it makes the player a demi-god. Pay for Advantage= This is a better term for games like Dust. The purchasable items DO give you help, but the benefits are marginal. As it stands, you can have half your fit be Aurum gear, and it will only give you a small advantage, in terms of EHP, dmg output, etc. It won't make an insignificant player great...they'll still be relatively insignificant. Maybe instead of finishing a match 12/12 on the leaderboard, they'll be 10/12. Also, great players, will still dominate, perhaps just by a little more than they would have otherwise. If you see a player dominate a match, and they have Aurum gear, chances are they prob would have been one of the top guys anyway. My point, let's start being realistic about how much of a difference the Aurum gear currently give you....it's pretty small. And even then, supposedly aurum gear will be purchasable for isk, when the marketplace is fully integrated. And at the end of the day, remember...the game will be FREE! Take the $40-60 you would have spent on it, and use it to buy Aurum, if you REALLY think it makes that much of a difference! Do you fools honestly think, CCP (or any company for that matter) are doing this for their love of gaming?!? They're here to make a profit. Whether it be with the traditional model of upfront $$$ for a disc, or "free-to-play" model where they make money on the back end...they still wanna make a buck.
Jin Robot Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:40:00 - [2] - Quote Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:40:00 - [3] - Quote Last build i tested it out Full ISK proto compared to full AUR proto The difference was an extra repper instead of a CPU upgrade
Guydon Antllies HoloSec Armaments and Security 51	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:45:00 - [4] - Quote my friend bought into the beta a few weeks ago.... he's pretty good as a foot grunt i must say, anyway, ive seen him just get mopped by militia gear repeatedly, and there have been times where his actual skill+itty bitty bonus saved his life...... maybe int eh future, like mike said, the aur weapons might just go apeshit, then lose it all thru intense nerfing and what not, like battlefield f2p.... but, like mike said, in this build, I too see none of that... huzzah
Jin Robot Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:50:00 - [5] - Quote You guys must not have been killed by thukker nades yet then
Lixet The Craniac Naloran Project 50	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: You guys must not have been killed by thukker nades yet then Those are *** grenades? Man I hate em :\|
Jin Robot Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:55:00 - [7] - Quote Lixet wrote: Jin Robot wrote: You guys must not have been killed by thukker nades yet then Those are *** grenades? Man I hate em :\| Yes those explode on contact grenades are AUR only. But apparently completely fair, right mikegunnz?
Lixet The Craniac Naloran Project 50	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:08:00 - [8] - Quote Aur only, and Merc Pack only.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:34:00 - [9] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. That's only like if EVERY item in your fit is Aurum. Otherwise, even if you use a few items, it should still last you for a couple thousand deaths. And like I said earlier, it only makes a MARGINAL difference. If someone wants to continuously buy Aurum gear, then let them. Supposedly it'll also, be available on the marketplace for isk, by other players. Also, re: Thukker grenades...I haven't been killed by them, but even so. Someone isn't going to change the tide of a match with a couple grenades. BUT, even if you think those grenades are THAT special... [see my point above, about aurum items being purchased for isk on the marketplace] ...and that's IF CCP decides they don't need to be "tweaked" by release time. Of course the debate won't be over. People love to argue, even with flawed logic. However, those trying to make the "pay-to-win" argument, don't really have a leg to stand on. (at least in this case, because the marketplace will help solve any potential problems)
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:40:00 - [10] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Last build i tested it out Full ISK proto compared to full AUR proto The difference was an extra repper instead of a CPU upgrade I agree, thx for mentioning. I also tested it by trying to see what the most OP aurum proto fit I could make was. The difference between it, and an isk-only proto fit, was pretty small.

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.09.12 20:12:00 - [11] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. So, once the player market is implemented buy the same gear with ISK? OR Get cheaper gear and play well, and revel in the $1 in real money you're chewing away from the AUR guy with every four kills. Sweet real money tears are the tastiest.
Xantanis Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.09.12 20:16:00 - [12] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. That's only like if EVERY item in your fit is Aurum. Otherwise, even if you use a few items, it should still last you for a couple thousand deaths. And like I said earlier, it only makes a MARGINAL difference. If someone wants to continuously buy Aurum gear, then let them. Supposedly it'll also, be available on the marketplace for isk, by other players. Also, re: Thukker grenades...I haven't been killed by them, but even so. Someone isn't going to change the tide of a match with a couple grenades. BUT, even if you think those grenades are THAT special... [see my point above, about aurum items being purchased for isk on the marketplace] ...and that's IF CCP decides they don't need to be "tweaked" by release time. Of course the debate won't be over. People love to argue, even with flawed logic. However, those trying to make the "pay-to-win" argument, don't really have a leg to stand on. (at least in this case, because the marketplace will help solve any potential problems) Mike you seem to forget, people think that 1 ring can rule them all. I'm sick of this arguement, I tried out both AUR and ISK items to see the difference, and so far for my guns I prefer the ISK ones. People need to realize that selling items for AUR is how they're going to fund this game for one, and 2 the player controlled market, like you said will allow people to get AUR for ISK.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:29:00 - [13] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: This game is NOT pay to win. (at least not now, and won't be unless things drastically change) Pay to Win = Average players being able to purchase gear with real $$$, and then dominate the players w/o purchased gear. There are some games out there with this problem. Dust is NOT one. Many games find a way to REASONABLY balance paid gear with free gear. In this case the paid gear gives a SLIGHT advantage, but not so much so that it makes the player a demi-god. 'Cavity' Thukker Nades nuff said.
Xantanis Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:37:00 - [14] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: mikegunnz wrote: This game is NOT pay to win. (at least not now, and won't be unless things drastically change) Pay to Win = Average players being able to purchase gear with real $$$, and then dominate the players w/o purchased gear. There are some games out there with this problem. Dust is NOT one. Many games find a way to REASONABLY balance paid gear with free gear. In this case the paid gear gives a SLIGHT advantage, but not so much so that it makes the player a demi-god. 'Cavity' Thukker Nades nuff said. These grenades you speak of, with the fact that its a ~ 1 in 4 chance they will explode at all, it doesn't matter. And Boo Hoo, 1 item thats different. Once again, when the game is live the marketplace will let you purchase AUR items from other players for ISK.
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote After all CCP needs to gain money out of this game so its only normal for them to gave plenty of AUR items and even giving them a slight advantage. In fact you should be thankful to the people who buy AURUM because they are funding the game you play for free!
Kengfa 138	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:45:00 - [16] - Quote So, anybody that says otherwise, should just go away... The game is not P2W. The aurum gear does not give a very large advantage at all. In fact, almost all it does it let you use it earlier, minus the single variation of SOME equipment pieces that have slightly reduced requirements than the original of that tier. Also, you can't buy officer gear, which gives a huge advantage over everybody.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:47:00 - [17] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: You guys must not have been killed by thukker nades yet then This is a specific item in need of rebalancing, not an example of why AUR is bad
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:53:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Jin Robot wrote: You guys must not have been killed by thukker nades yet then This is a specific item in need of rebalancing, not an example of why AUR is bad EXACTLY!
vint trebble Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 46	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:56:00 - [19] - Quote Quit the self righteous hoopla. People are going to have an immature opinions based on a death from someone who gets mowed down by another player with shiny vanity gear. You are right in saying this is not a pay to win game, as the rumors have said AuR gear will be purchasable with isk. That is actually one of the selling points that got me to sign up for CBT. I do not agree with you classifying CCP with other gaming conglomerates. We are reaching a new age of gaming where companies will have to adhere to players, and make a good gaming experience in order to make some money. I feel that CCP is a forerunner in this. The plans for Dust 514 are limitless, and the rumors surrounding them only double in size. I've only come across a select few games that are not pay to win games. League of Legends, Bloodline Champions, and Age of Empires Online. These are games that allow you to gain what you could with real money by playing the game. You might need to excessively play, but this creates a true free to play experience. If Dust allows a player to gain AuR items by paying a certain amount of isk then they will be on the right track. Ultimately we are still in an early process of this game, only time, patience, and feedback will reveal what this game is going to become.
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:02:00 - [20] - Quote If it's anything like EVE, you'll be able to sell AUR items on the market for ISK anyway.

Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:02:00 - [21] - Quote Seeing as I just went 4:1 in militia assault gear, I am thinking that some people may just need a bit more practice. It is all about secondary skills: Mechanics, Shield management, assault rifle operation. All those tiny skills stack up and make you uber on the battlefield.
Ieukoplast Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 169	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:03:00 - [22] - Quote AU items seem to disregard lag. Packets sent when a player is using an AU item must be given a higher priority, and the server doesn't drop the packet if it arrives late or out of order
EVICER 63	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:07:00 - [23] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. How old are you ?What is this recent trend in people online thinking that these games are supposed to be free and there the same one that hardley even play the game and also ***** about lag.....HELLO NO ONE IS PAYING FOR THE SERVER TO BE MAINTAINED!!!!!!! You got 2 lives for Street Fighter when it first came out in the arcades.....what in the hell is the matter with you people when in the whole history of games have they ever been free to play. Go up to one of the carnies you know the ones that look like they've been awake for 3 days on meth and tell him you wanna pitch at the bottles for the biggest bear for your girl(if you Have one) and you want as many chances as it gonna take for free............see what he says.Some people are complete and utter dumb A$$es I swear to god.....Im sorry man but if your not contributing monetarily to the upkeep of the server,the hourly wage of those technicians,maintenance/replacement for the hardware,advertising,development of the game and dlc............then you leaving is no great loss to the community...dont let the door smash ya in the a$$.GTFO so I dont have to hear all the pissing and moaning....Thats my message for all theUnemployed,waffle eatin,mother basement dwelling neck beards.
Kane Fyea Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:08:00 - [24] - Quote I use all ISK gear and ALWAYS get top 3 of my team. Also all it does is give you more CPU or be able to use proto gear at advanced level.
Kane Fyea Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:10:00 - [25] - Quote EVICER wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. How old are you ?What is this recent trend in people online thinking that these games are supposed to be free and there the same one that hardley even play the game and also ***** about lag.....HELLO NO ONE IS PAYING FOR THE SERVER TO BE MAINTAINED!!!!!!! You got 2 lives for Street Fighter when it first came out in the arcades.....what in the hell is the matter with you people when in the whole history of games have they ever been free to play. Go up to one of the carnies you know the ones that look like they've been awake for 3 days on meth and tell him you wanna pitch at the bottles for the biggest bear for your girl(if you Have one) and you want as many chances as it gonna take for free............see what he says.Some people are complete and utter dumb A$$es I swear to god.....Im sorry man but if your not contributing monetarily to the upkeep of the server,the hourly wage of those technicians,maintenance/replacement for the hardware,advertising,development of the game and dlc............then you leaving is no great loss to the community...dont let the door smash ya in the a$$.GTFO so I dont have to hear all the pissing and moaning....Thats my message for all theUnemployed,waffle eatin,mother basement dwelling neck beards. 5 Star Post right there.
Kengfa 138	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: EVICER wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. How old are you ?What is this recent trend in people online thinking that these games are supposed to be free and there the same one that hardley even play the game and also ***** about lag.....HELLO NO ONE IS PAYING FOR THE SERVER TO BE MAINTAINED!!!!!!! You got 2 lives for Street Fighter when it first came out in the arcades.....what in the hell is the matter with you people when in the whole history of games have they ever been free to play. Go up to one of the carnies you know the ones that look like they've been awake for 3 days on meth and tell him you wanna pitch at the bottles for the biggest bear for your girl(if you Have one) and you want as many chances as it gonna take for free............see what he says.Some people are complete and utter dumb A$$es I swear to god.....Im sorry man but if your not contributing monetarily to the upkeep of the server,the hourly wage of those technicians,maintenance/replacement for the hardware,advertising,development of the game and dlc............then you leaving is no great loss to the community...dont let the door smash ya in the a$$.GTFO so I dont have to hear all the pissing and moaning....Thats my message for all theUnemployed,waffle eatin,mother basement dwelling neck beards. 5 Star Post right there. Actually, more of a TL;DR and too bitchy.
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:17:00 - [27] - Quote Ieukoplast wrote: AU items seem to disregard lag. Packets sent when a player is using an AU item must be given a higher priority, and the server doesn't drop the packet if it arrives late or out of order Omg,really?! Post some more inane conspiratorial crap please
Ieukoplast Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 169	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:25:00 - [28] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Ieukoplast wrote: AU items seem to disregard lag. Packets sent when a player is using an AU item must be given a higher priority, and the server doesn't drop the packet if it arrives late or out of order Omg,really?! Post some more inane conspiratorial crap please Seems the smiley-face sticking its tongue out wasn't clear enough. Here, apply the following to my original post to fully understand my implication: "/Joke" Makes sense now?
Xantanis Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:27:00 - [29] - Quote EVICER wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Top gear loadout in AUR costs .24 cents. That 60 dollars will last for 250 deaths. I dont think this debate is over just because you want it to be. Actually if there are ppl similar to me, then the way this AUR/isk thing shakes out is going to decide whether I play this game or not. How old are you ?What is this recent trend in people online thinking that these games are supposed to be free and there the same one that hardley even play the game and also ***** about lag.....HELLO NO ONE IS PAYING FOR THE SERVER TO BE MAINTAINED!!!!!!! You got 2 lives for Street Fighter when it first came out in the arcades.....what in the hell is the matter with you people when in the whole history of games have they ever been free to play. Go up to one of the carnies you know the ones that look like they've been awake for 3 days on meth and tell him you wanna pitch at the bottles for the biggest bear for your girl(if you Have one) and you want as many chances as it gonna take for free............see what he says.Some people are complete and utter dumb A$$es I swear to god.....Im sorry man but if your not contributing monetarily to the upkeep of the server,the hourly wage of those technicians,maintenance/replacement for the hardware,advertising,development of the game and dlc............then you leaving is no great loss to the community...dont let the door smash ya in the a$$.GTFO so I dont have to hear all the pissing and moaning....Thats my message for all theUnemployed,waffle eatin,mother basement dwelling neck beards. I can't wait for the "I'd rather just buy the game in a retail copy and not have to pay for it again" people. I'm sorry but no FPS is pay for it once and you're done either. CoD... Map packs.. BF3, premium. If I spend ~ $30 on this game to get boosters (cause those Are nice) and use ISK items I'll still make out like a bandit compared to those games. Don't get me wrong, I play BF3, Might have seen me if you do as SwordofVidya. Its fun, but GD they like $$ way more than CCP apparently. Don't really know other games you can pay for game time with in game money. ( TY for that CCP btw)
Xantanis Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:28:00 - [30] - Quote Ieukoplast wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Ieukoplast wrote: AU items seem to disregard lag. Packets sent when a player is using an AU item must be given a higher priority, and the server doesn't drop the packet if it arrives late or out of order Omg,really?! Post some more inane conspiratorial crap please Seems the smiley-face sticking its tongue out wasn't clear enough. Here, apply the following to my original post to fully understand my implication: "/Sarcasm" Makes sense now? Thats one big GD tongue. The ladies must love you.



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