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Sdoots
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
To be clear, I love fittings. I think they offer much more control over loadouts than any other game before Dust, and I hope other games will learn a thing or two from the system. What I don't love is keeping track of quantities.
Yes, it's not really that difficult. There are checks and displays throughout to show me, "Hey, you can spawn as this 45 more times, Sdoots.". And that's great. Admittedly, it did take me running into a case where I joined a game and all of my fittings were invalid before I realized how handy those indicators were, but that's not my point.
Right now, to my understanding, items in the marketplace are only purchasable in quantities. I'd be more than happy to spend AUR to own items in unlimited quantities. I don't mean high end weapons or tanks, but a nice dropsuit and a gun that isn't militia level that I could spawn with reliably without having to restock? I'd be willing to drop money on that.
I have 5000 AUR right now. Instead of spending 7 on one use of a dropsuit, I'd much rather spend 1500 on unlimited quantities of a "Assault Rifle". Not "Militia Assault Rifle", not anything fancy, just "Assault Rifle."
I don't think this should replace the current option, but it would be a strong addition to the current marketplace.
Update: In case some people only read this first post, or if it wasn't made clear in the post I made later on in this thread, I would be thrilled if the community would use this thread to collectively brainstorm solutions, tweaks, or share that they simply like things they way they are. It'd be pretty cool to see this turn into a bunch of players bullshitting about game design, tossing out ideas about how to improve things while still maintaining the risk and consequences that make this game what it is. |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 17:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
NO NO NO NO NO. Nothing aside from militia should be unlimited. This game is about RISK, and CONSEQUENCES. Allowing people to have good gear forever will make this game awful. When I kill someone I want to know that they are suffering. When I spawn in a suit, I want to know that I am putting something I own at risk.
Sometime I hope a game comes out that requires the user to put some shock system on them so when I kill their character, it causes them physical pain.
To your infinite modules BS.. Absolutely No.. And no dev will go with it. |
Nicolas DelValle
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2012.09.11 17:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
First of all, Fittings already existed before Dust... in EVE.
Second of all, no for the same reason as above.
/dislike |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.09.11 17:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
They did have color varient BPO's of Type 1 suits for a short time then removed them. It was like 1700 or something AURUM.
if it stays at type 1 color varients i could be okay with it. |
Sdoots
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.09.11 18:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hey, Raynor, I really appreciate the constructive criticism.
I don't disagree with you about risk and consequences. It's what drew me to the game in the first place.
Nowhere did I say people should have good gear forever. I'm pretty sure my words were "Above militia". Now, I haven't played for too long, so maybe I'm talking out my ass, in which case I apologize, but the generic Assault Rifle doesn't seem that much better so far. It seems like enough to not get your **** wrecked constantly, which is what the standard should be. Yeah, risk and consequences, but risk simply to stand a modicum of a chance?
It just seems silly to me that I'm expected to have a personal investment in the things I need to play the game, as well as a goddamn tank. One is required for me to do anything, the other is something that I have to spend hours working towards, will be a huge target, a potential game changer for my team, and when it is gone, it is GONE. That is something where risk and consequences truly works well.
With dropsuits and guns, I'm just having to deal with another menu interface before I can play the game again. Oh man, these consequences are really hurting.
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mongo flash
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2012.09.11 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
/ dislike idea. This goes against everything dust/ eve/ player economy. Bad idea. |
a dirty Shisno
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
130
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Posted - 2012.09.11 18:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
This argument has been asked before and always causes a fierce debate. Myself, I have to agree entirely with the OP on this one.
The problem with the current Aurum market is that it is entirely not consumer friendly.
It has been said by CCP that spawning in a Dropsuit entirely decked out in Aurum gear would cost you $0.24. That means it would easily cost you about $1 per match to use all Aurum gear. Now since it's easy to play at least 10 matches in one day that would be a cost of about $10 in just one single day! In just six days you could easily pay more than a full disk title on this game, and all just for using Aurum gear!
Now nobody is asking that we be able to purchase BPOs of Proto Gear. All we want is to be able to purchase a BPO that is just a little bit better than the worst gear in some way, and not necessarily every way, so that when we feel we need to stop using the fine china to make a little money we don't have to go all the back to the starter gear, because as of the next build even the Milita Gear will cost us ISK to use every time we spawn. |
Sdoots
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 18:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
mongo flash wrote:/ dislike idea. This goes against everything dust/ eve/ player economy. Bad idea.
Alright, got it. Follow up question then, and I'm just talking in broad terms by the way, not specifically towards you. I'm kind of curious to see what people can come up with, or if they think it is worth/needs changing/tweaking.
Is there a way from a design perspective that would make restocking easier/more fluid without breaking what makes Dust, well, Dust? |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
315
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Posted - 2012.09.11 19:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
How about an option to "subscribe" to items in the market. Basically the market works like it does now and you can have a surplus of items, but there is an option to auto purchase required equipment if you run out.
So if you select this option and upon dying in a battle you run out of assault rifles. If you spawn in with that dropsuit loadout the game will auto purchase the assault rifle and deduct the isk from your account. Maybe display the cost to deploy with a kit to the right of each name or something. That way you could set up your gear and never worry about it (unless you run out of isk).
And once the player market goes live you could still manually stock up on cheaper goods if you shop around.
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Onen Matthews
2
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd say that BPO's and BPC's would work out well... If only for sidegrades and Militia gear. I would say a non-tracking high speed swarm launcher such as the Pilum H-AVR from Battlefield 2142 could be a good BPO.
Also, on BPC's, They'd half to be less expensive than BPO's, but they'd need to have a cap. Something like 1,000 uses.
It's a number large enough to justify the not just buying individual units, yet small enough not to just save and buy the BPO. |
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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
648
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Posted - 2012.09.11 21:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:How about an option to "subscribe" to items in the market. Basically the market works like it does now and you can have a surplus of items, but there is an option to auto purchase required equipment if you run out.
So if you select this option and upon dying in a battle you run out of assault rifles. If you spawn in with that dropsuit loadout the game will auto purchase the assault rifle and deduct the isk from your account. Maybe display the cost to deploy with a kit to the right of each name or something. That way you could set up your gear and never worry about it (unless you run out of isk).
And once the player market goes live you could still manually stock up on cheaper goods if you shop around.
Thats what I would say, it would buy the cheapest local price in the system, but you could buy it cheaper shopping around between battles. It could spawn a economic trend where battles get a horde of merchents in system selling overpriced weapons to mercs in battle who run out... Interesting.
@OP
No, just no. |
Conraire
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 22:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
What a lot of people are failing to realize. Dust is based on EVE. You can buy BPO's for basic and regular unnamed Modules and ships in EVE, this is of course at a much higher cost than buying a bpc to make the mod in limited runs, or going on the market and buying said mod or ship. But, in the LONG run they pay for themselves over time.
But I do agree on the fact that higher end equipment and suits shouldn't be infinite bpo's Prototype gear would be equiv to t2 or high meta level mods in EVE, which are either dropped as loot (have had decent luck with salvage) or available from limited run bpcs through faction rewards and LP stores. Or in EVEs case, different levels of PVE complexs. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 22:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:NO NO NO NO NO. Nothing aside from militia should be unlimited. This game is about RISK, and CONSEQUENCES. Allowing people to have good gear forever will make this game awful. When I kill someone I want to know that they are suffering. When I spawn in a suit, I want to know that I am putting something I own at risk.
Sometime I hope a game comes out that requires the user to put some shock system on them so when I kill their character, it causes them physical pain.
To your infinite modules BS.. Absolutely No.. And no dev will go with it.
agree |
ERIC ALIGHIERI
HYPERION RESEARCH LTD.
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 02:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:Raynor Ragna wrote:NO NO NO NO NO. Nothing aside from militia should be unlimited. This game is about RISK, and CONSEQUENCES. Allowing people to have good gear forever will make this game awful. When I kill someone I want to know that they are suffering. When I spawn in a suit, I want to know that I am putting something I own at risk.
Sometime I hope a game comes out that requires the user to put some shock system on them so when I kill their character, it causes them physical pain.
To your infinite modules BS.. Absolutely No.. And no dev will go with it. agree
Second that |
V4DOL
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
At first I was going to agree with a BPO/BPC system just like in EvE. BPO's are base items, BPC's are copies of the base item BPO's, or dropped as loot for higher gear. But in EvE you still have to make the items. So what are you making the items with in Dust? Salvage isn't consistent, there is no construction or research fields in this game. They want this to be a free to play game where buying AUR with cash does not turn into an 'I Win' button. And if you are buying BPO's which require no other materials to produce an infinite amount of items (or even limited run BPC's), then you are in act paying to win. Even with base gear. Now, if there was some way to make it so that DUST players had to actually procude the items from the BP's, then I could be ok with it. But as of right now, my understanding is that EvE players will be able to manufacture items for sale in the DUST marketplace. So you could be constantly resupplied by your counterpart in EvE, or members of your corporation in EvE. |
I-SHAYZ-I
24
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
It would be nice if you could set up your fitting however you like, and then have a price at the top that gives you an indication of how much this suit costs every time you spawn in it. That way it just deducts from the amount of isk you have every time you use it instead of having to go restock every time you run out of a certain item.
I still like the current system as it is, and think AUR should be spent on things like a color change of your suit or SP bonuses rather than disposable items. |
oldgrump
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 07:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be great if u had a way to keep track of the skill books u have purchased, maybe be shown "you already have this skilkl book" if u try to buy it again. |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation
CRONOS.
191
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 08:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dude if you want to buy rifle with aur do it.
You said you have 5000 aur right? If the aur AR is 7 Aur you can buy 714 of them. |
Sdoots
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 12:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
I-SHAYZ-I wrote:It would be nice if you could set up your fitting however you like, and then have a price at the top that gives you an indication of how much this suit costs every time you spawn in it. That way it just deducts from the amount of isk you have every time you use it instead of having to go restock every time you run out of a certain item.
I still like the current system as it is, and think AUR should be spent on things like a color change of your suit or SP bonuses rather than disposable items.
I REALLY like this idea. Unobtrusive, but it still prevents a situation where you literally can't spawn.
I'm sure some people will give me flak for this, but I bit the bullet and bought what I figured was a reasonable amount of gear to create a "limited run" Hazard logistics fitting. It uses the Blindfire Assault Rifle, which isn't fancy, but is an upgrade from the militia weapons.
I should have spent some more time with the game before I put forth my idea. Having unlimited uses of this stuff would be kind of weird, to put it lightly. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 13:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
oldgrump wrote:It would be great if u had a way to keep track of the skill books u have purchased, maybe be shown "you already have this skilkl book" if u try to buy it again.
Use the book right after you buy it and the empty skill will show up in your list, letting you know that you have it. |
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the champ2025
0
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Posted - 2012.09.15 00:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
I say if you like to camp it should be harder to kill your opposition |
Scalesdini
Universal Allies Inc.
58
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think the OP's idea is a fairly good one, however I would limit BPO items to dropsuits. Different colors, all at standard-grade specs, and in the 1.5k-2k aurum range a piece. That way you could buy yourself a cool looking suit that would last forever, but if you choose to use other aurum gear you still have to buy in quantity like anyone else would.
The ability to have cool looking suits that never went away but were only at standard level wouldn't be "pay to win", nor would it detract from the overall feeling of losing gear when you die. I would certainly buy one or two of such suits, if they were in line with standard-grade suits and not militia gear. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 05:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sdoots wrote:mongo flash wrote:/ dislike idea. This goes against everything dust/ eve/ player economy. Bad idea. Alright, got it. Follow up question then, and I'm just talking in broad terms by the way, not specifically towards you. I'm kind of curious to see what people can come up with, or if they think it is worth/needs changing/tweaking. Is there a way from a design perspective that would make restocking easier/more fluid without breaking what makes Dust, well, Dust?
The had a decent restocking mechanic in the old build, where setting restock to 20 would make sure you had 20 sets. If you had 10 of the suits, 5 of the weapons, and 3 of the module you used two of, the resupply would grab 10, 15, and 37 respectively.
On the matter of infinite anything that isn't the bare-bones basic, the reason it is so horridly frowned upon is a bit less about risk-reward (although that is alot of it), and more about battle logistics. If you die and lose your... lets say Advanced Assault Suit, you could just buy more... if the local market HAS ANY. That side, the logistics(NOT THE HEALERS PEOPLE) of battle, are what give this an epic scale feel. The fact that you need to import your chosen armory from halfway across the galaxy or just work with your surroundings gives an immersive feel much stronger than waving your hands over the money to transmute it into fine armor and pewpew.
NOTE: Due to internet instability, this message was posted 4 days after it was created. What the kitten. |
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