DUST Search - Can we stop the Handholding

byte modal wrote:

I'd love to wipe out a small group of annoying infantry if my squad has earned it. Hm. I can buy the arguement against it though. I'd like a voice-over like the hack warnings to the affect of "Orbital Strike Incoming," or something of the sort. As if our MCC could detect the enemy charging their weaponry or what have you, then announce. Perhaps another voice though to suggest importance, or at least the tone could be more urgent than the default "virus upload complete" phrases to stand out from the white noise of gameplay. Starcraft declares nuclear strikes. It's my job to figure out if I'm in a position of risk then get my arse out of the way if so.

As the OP doesn't wan't obvious telegraphing of the strike, and replies suggest immediate wipes are too much, then perhaps the warning is only heard by those within a certain proximity or radius of the coming strike (the game knows where the strike is, a player just called it in. But to not be obvious, it will only ever warn those within a relatively large radius of where the strike will actually hit). Friendly MCC can detect the weapon charge, but not the exact position of strike. I suppose the ship logistics could scan the battlefield and estimate where the strike would be based on infantry clusters or some nonsense thereby giving a legitimate reason for the warning. At this point it would be up to the infantry or pilots/drivers to heed the warning and move or stay in position for defense. By moving based on the audio warning alone, they risk losing their positional advantage If the strike is just out of range had they simply stayed where they were. Of course by moving, they could risk actually moving CLOSER to the strike? But really, what are the odds of a Squad Leader aiming away from a cluster in hopes that they just happen to move into line of site. lol. Anyway. By staying, they risk the strike that may nor may not be exactly on their specific location, but if they luck up and the OS hits nearby instead of their immediate location, then they have retained positional advantage.

Perhaps there could be a margin of error on those scans. 5 infantry are clustered around Objective D in a seemingly defensive posture, while remaining team is sniping, running, and generally scattered. The percentage of this grouping being the intended strike would be high, the warning is sent to those 5 players, and they move or they don't. In contrast, a group of 3 and a tank with driver are defending Objective B, 4 infantry on Objective D, and a single tank with 3 aboard including driver is on approach to Objective E. In this case, either audio warnings go out to all 3 groups, and it's up to each group to decide their odds and move or not. OR the audio warning goes to just the most likely target cluster (my preference) of 3 infantry + tank and driver over at Objective B. That cluster heeds the warning and moves, but within moments the 4 infantry on Objective D are wiped without warning. Because well, logisitcs can get it wrong sometimes too. To boot, the other group has lost position. That may be OP, but it can play both sides so idunno. You get the concept.

That, or just go with what what Saber said. Shorten the warning/strike gap.
I think I over analyze sometimes. =\

- me.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
achiever Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 25	Posted - 2012.09.06 12:37:00 - [31] - Quote well when i get the chance too use ob i use it on the rail gun towers the one where the guy is inside and you cant kill him or hack it
Dane Stark Golgotha Group 178	Posted - 2012.09.06 13:05:00 - [32] - Quote Gilbatron wrote: don't forget that you can shoot back and that there will probably be some players in eve that actually are on your Site, trying to kill the bombers. Oh man, could you imagine how sweet it would be to look up and see actual sub-orbital combat taking place over head and then realize, it's really happening in EvE?!?
Carilito Algintal Core Gallente Federation 345	Posted - 2012.09.06 14:23:00 - [33] - Quote Remember only the fastest ships can enter/exit a planets sub orbit, depending on the planets specific gravity, anything bigger then a destroyer wouldnt have enough inertia to stay in orbit. From destroyers to Caps they would all fall to the ground, unless they have some sweet retro-something(?) we dont know about. That is if CCp really want to make this game realistic. Would love to try and fit my domnix to be able to play MCC for a district; my ogres would have some fun.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2012.09.06 15:08:00 - [34] - Quote Alhanna Ridgeway wrote: Insta AE Death as you call it is a good thing. It teaches people to keep moving, not stand still like you're a statue on display. If you're stupid enough to stand in one spot, then you get to take the hit. If you keep moving, it should be very rare you just happen to hit the place the enemy drops the OS. I mean in my opinion there shouldn't be little orange grenade icons when people throw them either. Nothing screams move the ** out the way like a grenade icon. All the hand holding pisses me off, its a way to make gaming easier for less skilled and younger players. I say get rid of the telegraphing, the icons, killcams (from other shooters), the little orange arrows over everyone's head, anything that ruins the element of surprise completely negates good tactics. The next major advancement in FPS will be an automated voice that tells you exactly what the other player is doing. "** enemy is reloading, ** is now bunny hopping, throwing grenade please move to the left, ** is now crouching in combat, please shoot the ** in the head. **** died. You're a great player. Glad I could hold your hand and teach you to play.There will be cake in the war room." I have to say that this point, the one made above, makes pretty good sense. Yet in the same regard these people we play are so far in the future as to have invaded and held thousands of star systems. So having the sensors and equipment in the dropsuits that could potentially war you of, say, grenades and the relative direction of incoming rounds is not completely out of the context of the universe we are dabbling in. I do agree withe the fact that the hand holding should be drastically reduced. Telegraphing an OB/OS doesn't seems very tactical. I mean, IF I were going to blow the crap out of some one from orbit, why would I want ANYONE to know about it BEFORE hand??? Hell, I would figure the less some one knew the better the strike would actually do what it is supposed to do - kill a ton of people that I need dead to get my job done. Yet I can understand that there is the possibility of some warning considering the fact that the two opposing war barges would be parked relatively close to each other in orbit. This would allow the sensors from one barge to pick up the charging of the weapons (perhaps?) and be able to relay the possibility of a strike to the troops on the ground, BUT it would not necessarily be able to notify them of the location of the strike. As for the use of modules to encrypt the signal, with varying degrees of encryption based upon the grade of the module, I kind of like that idea and it would seem to fit the commander dropsuit that we have yet to see in the game. I do think that a couple of things that we should consider doing while we are still in this process of testing the game before they release it is to accept the universe the way that CCP is presenting it instead of attempting to impose our version of reality to the game. Every time a person comes out with the purely subjective response of "I think it should feel like this . . . " is the process of someone attempting to impose their narrow vision of the world upon the rest of us instead of us coming together to partake inthe vision that is CCP's. Just a thought.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.09.06 15:15:00 - [35] - Quote Alhanna Ridgeway wrote: Insta AE Death as you call it is a good thing. It teaches people to keep moving, not stand still like you're a statue on display. If you're stupid enough to stand in one spot, then you get to take the hit. People are always moving. Very few people stand still. I think the vast majority of us have played FPS games before, and being constantly moving comes naturally. It's pretty noticeable when you do a little sniping. But anyway, instant AOE death for the purpose of teaching people to keep moving really doesn't make any sense. When it's instant, it's arbitrary. People who are constantly moving will wind up running into an area about to be OS'd and die for no reason other than they were moving toward the wrong place at the wrong time. Not very fun gameplay, that, and even if the lesson of "don't stand still" were one people actually required, that wouldn't teach them it. It would simply teach them the lesson that sometimes they will die, and there is nothing they can do about it. Shortening the delay is fine. Making it instant wouldn't be fun. Things you have no way to avoid or defend against always make bad gameplay.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.09.06 15:51:00 - [36] - Quote Star Killer 420 wrote: i agree but soon i have a feeling EVE players will be dual wielding Dust & EVE so they can SPAM Orbitals... once that happens GAME OVER!! EVE players Win & DUST will go the way of COD... down the tubes.. which is Sad cuz this game is one of the best comin out & EVE players are probably gonna kill it with to many Orbital Strikes Well, you do realize that calling down strikes will still be dependent on gaining enough War Points in a squad, right? There won't be any way to do that.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 904	Posted - 2012.09.06 16:04:00 - [37] - Quote byte modal wrote: As the OP doesn't wan't obvious telegraphing of the strike, and replies suggest immediate wipes are too much, then perhaps the warning is only heard by those within a certain proximity or radius of the coming strike (the game knows where the strike is, a player just called it in.... Friendly MCC can detect the weapon charge, but not the exact position of strike. I really like the idea of a localized voice audio warning (we currently get the sound effect) instead of the visual telegraph. Heck, I even like the lore you came up with to explain it. We'll have to see how shortening the delay between telegraph and strike goes, but I think the localized voice warning without a visual warning would be something to consider. The voice warning would have to be short though, "Orbital Incoming" or the like.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.06 17:45:00 - [38] - Quote Mabey instead of a ring of light marking where the boundries are we could have 1 light aiming down to the center of the blast therefore harder to detect and harder to judge if ur far enough away
Big Nutz 2 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.09.07 00:40:00 - [39] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Being killed abruptly by an orbital strike would be kind of lame too, though. Stuff you can't defend against and can't see coming is cheap to die to. I prefer the idea of orbital strikes being used to take out immobilized tanks (next build), installations, and other dug-in sorts of positions. Arbitrarily wiping out a bunch of infantry because your squad happened to get a certain number of WP doesn't sound like fun gameplay. +1
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.09.07 00:42:00 - [40] - Quote byte modal wrote: I'd love to wipe out a small group of annoying infantry if my squad has earned it. Hm. I can buy the arguement against it though. I'd like a voice-over like the hack warnings to the affect of "Orbital Strike Incoming," or something of the sort. As if our MCC could detect the enemy charging their weaponry or what have you, then announce. Perhaps another voice though to suggest importance, or at least the tone could be more urgent than the default "virus upload complete" phrases to stand out from the white noise of gameplay. Starcraft declares nuclear strikes. It's my job to figure out if I'm in a position of risk then get my arse out of the way if so. As the OP doesn't wan't obvious telegraphing of the strike, and replies suggest immediate wipes are too much, then perhaps the warning is only heard by those within a certain proximity or radius of the coming strike (the game knows where the strike is, a player just called it in. But to not be obvious, it will only ever warn those within a relatively large radius of where the strike will actually hit). Friendly MCC can detect the weapon charge, but not the exact position of strike. I suppose the ship logistics could scan the battlefield and estimate where the strike would be based on infantry clusters or some nonsense thereby giving a legitimate reason for the warning. At this point it would be up to the infantry or pilots/drivers to heed the warning and move or stay in position for defense. By moving based on the audio warning alone, they risk losing their positional advantage If the strike is just out of range had they simply stayed where they were. Of course by moving, they could risk actually moving CLOSER to the strike? But really, what are the odds of a Squad Leader aiming away from a cluster in hopes that they just happen to move into line of site. lol. Anyway. By staying, they risk the strike that may nor may not be exactly on their specific location, but if they luck up and the OS hits nearby instead of their immediate location, then they have retained positional advantage. Perhaps there could be a margin of error on those scans. 5 infantry are clustered around Objective D in a seemingly defensive posture, while remaining team is sniping, running, and generally scattered. The percentage of this grouping being the intended strike would be high, the warning is sent to those 5 players, and they move or they don't. In contrast, a group of 3 and a tank with driver are defending Objective B, 4 infantry on Objective D, and a single tank with 3 aboard including driver is on approach to Objective E. In this case, either audio warnings go out to all 3 groups, and it's up to each group to decide their odds and move or not. OR the audio warning goes to just the most likely target cluster (my preference) of 3 infantry + tank and driver over at Objective B. That cluster heeds the warning and moves, but within moments the 4 infantry on Objective D are wiped without warning. Because well, logisitcs can get it wrong sometimes too. To boot, the other group has lost position. That may be OP, but it can play both sides so idunno. You get the concept. That, or just go with what what Saber said. Shorten the warning/strike gap. I think I over analyze sometimes. =\ - me. Well said sir

Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.09.07 00:50:00 - [41] - Quote Star Killer 420 wrote: i agree but soon i have a feeling EVE players will be dual wielding Dust & EVE so they can SPAM Orbitals... once that happens GAME OVER!! EVE players Win & DUST will go the way of COD... down the tubes.. which is Sad cuz this game is one of the best comin out & EVE players are probably gonna kill it with to many Orbital Strikes There will be Eve players trying to spam OB while they dual wield Eve & Dust, fact of life. On the plus side, anywhere you put a heavy concentration of vulnerable ships (OB vessels) you will quickly get a heavy concentration of players trying to pick off the vulnerable vessels for easy killmails, another fact of life in New Eden. My self, I'll be dual wielding Dust witha shoulder mounted 3rd Eve log in added, just so I can see if I can hit OB ships with a stealth bomber's bombs while they are striking the grunts. I see orbital superiority becoming important to dust matches, but maintaining that superiority is probably going to take a LOT of effort - especially in Low & Null sec where pvp is non consentual free-for-all
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.09.07 01:00:00 - [42] - Quote Handholding... Didn't i say the grenade indicator is a kind of handholding? I'd rather not have that feature. also +1
Minmatar Slave 74136 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2012.09.07 01:10:00 - [43] - Quote Yeah, I was able to avoid a strike this afternoon because I heard the sound and saw the first beam (guidance beam? dunno) and got out of the way before the main strike hit. yeah, reduce the warning time. it'll increase the chance that the targets can't get out of the strike zone in time (but give them a chance if they are on the edges) and will always still kill the unwary. I want to see different kinds of strikes, too, like a minmatar ship raining down explosives, or a caldari ship orbital strike is a missile that MIRVs as it arrives over the target zone from orbit and rains a pattern of submunitions onto the targets below.


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