DUST Search - What is the role of the Heavy turning into?

Clone Number 1 wrote:

so this weekend I have tried to enjoy playing this beta as a heavy.

With so many nerfs to the heavy the only suit worth buying is a teir1 tech two shield heavy. Yea I know right?

You would hope that an armor heavy would be the way to go, and it used to be but now they are useless.

The mobility limitations of the heavy as well as the drop in armor points and cost. It is not a viable option.

I went from dying maybe 2-5 times in a match to over 10 a match. Now I understand my play style will have to change.

For example I can no longer run between objectives on any open area map if there is anyone watching, because anyone can take me out at range. OK so that limits me to stand in one location and wait for the enemy or travel in groups. OK let's adjust.

But my role is not to suppress the enemy anymore and lead the charge it is to stay behind assault and cover thre r backs if anyone gets close.OK maybe that's now the role.

Anti vehicle roles as a heavy are silly no mobility and no way to tank a shot to stand toe to toe with vehchiles as the description from ccp of what a heavys role is supposed to be. OK that's changed.

So where does that leave the heavy role we are still great in close quarters with buildings so I see that role.

But honestly I didn't spec into the heavy role to sit in one spot and wait for the enemy come to me,with the map layouts that we have now are not much fun to play as a a heavy.

Just trying to figure out what ccp wants the role of the heavy to be?

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Clone Number 1 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:13:00 - [1] - Quote so this weekend I have tried to enjoy playing this beta as a heavy. With so many nerfs to the heavy the only suit worth buying is a teir1 tech two shield heavy. Yea I know right? You would hope that an armor heavy would be the way to go, and it used to be but now they are useless. The mobility limitations of the heavy as well as the drop in armor points and cost. It is not a viable option. I went from dying maybe 2-5 times in a match to over 10 a match. Now I understand my play style will have to change. For example I can no longer run between objectives on any open area map if there is anyone watching, because anyone can take me out at range. OK so that limits me to stand in one location and wait for the enemy or travel in groups. OK let's adjust. But my role is not to suppress the enemy anymore and lead the charge it is to stay behind assault and cover thre r backs if anyone gets close.OK maybe that's now the role. Anti vehicle roles as a heavy are silly no mobility and no way to tank a shot to stand toe to toe with vehchiles as the description from ccp of what a heavys role is supposed to be. OK that's changed. So where does that leave the heavy role we are still great in close quarters with buildings so I see that role. But honestly I didn't spec into the heavy role to sit in one spot and wait for the enemy come to me,with the map layouts that we have now are not much fun to play as a a heavy. Just trying to figure out what ccp wants the role of the heavy to be?
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:20:00 - [2] - Quote I think they messed up big when it comes to heavies, actually when it comes to dropsuits at all. Advanced and proto gear are WAY too expensive and do not offer any real rewards....with the way tanks role around one shotting everything, it seems that scout is the only option, at least you have good mobility to get around....gonna be killed by one rail gun AOE anyhow. Heavies seem like a pointless suit....for the last 3 builds scouts have dominated and now you can see that with the number of scout suits out there. The HMG is decent....but you are right, you kinda have to camp an objective and the forge gun is USELESS now...utter kittens...but hey this is EVE not a FPS soooo we can expect vehicles to rule the battlefield...I mean when have foot soldiers ever won a war?
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:24:00 - [3] - Quote Clone Number 1 wrote: so this weekend I have tried to enjoy playing this beta as a heavy. With so many nerfs to the heavy the only suit worth buying is a teir1 tech two shield heavy. Yea I know right? You would hope that an armor heavy would be the way to go, and it used to be but now they are useless. The mobility limitations of the heavy as well as the drop in armor points and cost. It is not a viable option. I went from dying maybe 2-5 times in a match to over 10 a match. Now I understand my play style will have to change. For example I can no longer run between objectives on any open area map if there is anyone watching, because anyone can take me out at range. OK so that limits me to stand in one location and wait for the enemy or travel in groups. OK let's adjust. But my role is not to suppress the enemy anymore and lead the charge it is to stay behind assault and cover thre r backs if anyone gets close.OK maybe that's now the role. Anti vehicle roles as a heavy are silly no mobility and no way to tank a shot to stand toe to toe with vehchiles as the description from ccp of what a heavys role is supposed to be. OK that's changed. So where does that leave the heavy role we are still great in close quarters with buildings so I see that role. But honestly I didn't spec into the heavy role to sit in one spot and wait for the enemy come to me,with the map layouts that we have now are not much fun to play as a a heavy. Just trying to figure out what ccp wants the role of the heavy to be? TBH, the new role of the heavy is to be an easy, slow-moving target. Their AV weapons are sub-par, and their signature weapons (HMG) is only effective at short-to-medium/short range. (where they can get owned by a smart scout) At least when they had more armor, they could survive enough rounds to give them a shot at taking down scouts and assaults at shorter ranges. CCP, the heavy's speed is crap... which is fine, as long as they had the high armor to give them survivability against "dancing" scouts. With reduced armor, they now suck. This is also the example I would give as to why speed of scouts shouldn't be touched. If their speed was nerfed, they'd lose their main strength and become almost useless. (as the heavy has become now, by losing it's main strength...high armor)
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:30:00 - [4] - Quote only because the scout is bugged atm. and i own heavies with HMG that cant aim for **** all the time in assault your point is? i guess my point is that a good heavy with HMG would take me down and good ones do. quit calling for buffs nerfs because you can't work out how to use the class.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:34:00 - [5] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: only because the scout is bugged atm. and i own heavies with HMG that cant aim for **** all the time in assault your point is? Not sure what your point is......... But, yes scout is bugged, however it's more a problem with the hit detection than the absolute speed of the scout.
Darky SI 232	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:36:00 - [6] - Quote I feel your pain bro i have bailed on this build till they fix the heavy suit and its weapons. Currently the only role i see for the heavy is target practice its just sad i can't stand it and am tired of posting/supporting threads about the heavy suits/weapons they never listen CCP is too careful about the heavy suit they don't even try to fix it except for tweaks now and then that doesn't do much for us. I really love the heavy suit but CCP you have to make it more appealing currently training heavy is hell of pain they cost too much our skills multiplier is higher than the others and how come we don't have a start HMG! who in hell thought that a heavy starter fit is heavy suit with swarm launcher! look at the heavy proto suit it cost 170k!! WTF i barely gain 120K each match and seeing how frequent a heavy die its not worth it plus the stat on that proto suit doesn't justify its overprice! 1000 hp is nothing when you are a target practice that can't defend it self
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:39:00 - [7] - Quote I can''t play as a scout because they have no tank and i cant play as a heavy because they have no speed, i think a slight speed buff to heavies along with a small armour buff would do the trick very well. The heavy was high HP but very hard to repair and i think that was a good trade off before the dropsuits nerfs. But if CCP is going to stick with the current idea behind dropsuits ( Which i think is very, very good in actual fact) i think the heavy needs a slight HP armour buff or armour repairers need a big buff or it needs a speed buff.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:48:00 - [8] - Quote i wouldnt give tham any more armour buffer they have enough if they are well skilled. i say leave the suits as they are. if you want a speed buff there are items on the market that do just that. if anything the militia heavy could do with a slot. but the higher teir suits do just that
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.09.03 18:58:00 - [9] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: only because the scout is bugged atm. and i own heavies with HMG that cant aim for ** all the time in assault your point is? i guess my point is that a good heavy with HMG would take me down and good ones do. quit calling for buffs nerfs because you can't work out how to use the class. Fair enough. I'm not saying a blind buff for the heavy...but it has been drastically nerfed now. All I'm saying is that it should prob be brought back up to it's original levels (that were as of a few days ago) Everything being equal, right now the heavy with "new lower armor" is screwed. Against a scout: In cqc the scout can literally stay close and run circles around them. At close/medium range, with walls or corners to run around, the scout can jump around a corner, and regain any lost shields almost instantly if they take hits. The heavy has no recourse, because he's so slow and can't chase the scout. Any dmg the scout does will be cumulative, bc the heavy's armor takes a while to recharge (assuming they have reppers) Where as the scout, as I mentioned earlier, can take a little dmg, and recharge quickely, and come back to sting the heavy some more. At least with the previous armor levels, the heavy could take more dmg, and hope to have enough time to eat bullets, and maybe get that extra round or two into the scout to kill him. Against an assault:** Heavy still at disadvantage. In cqc, they heavy has a decent shot, however it's the medium to longer ranges where they're in trouble. If they get caught by an assault in this range, the heavy is too slow to get out of trouble quickly. Before, they maybe had enough armor to eat some bullets, and give them enough time to get to cover. Now, they have little chance....and as I mentioned before, their HMG doesn't help them at medium to long range.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.03 19:10:00 - [10] - Quote Heavy = free kill (currently)

Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.09.03 19:18:00 - [11] - Quote lets wait and see what they cant wait to show us about the HMG eh? from what i see certain people playing when they are forced onto foot it's going to be the "tanks" of the next patch. and i'll guess also the tank drivers get to keep all the skill points. i.e no wipe. all in the interests of testing ofc. CCP will never change and one way i'm glad because it will keep holding them back.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.09.03 19:19:00 - [12] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Heavy = free kill (currently) Not really, they can still kick your butt if you get too close with bigger armor and shield. For anything else than that, they are just slow moving bullet sponges.
Akuzuma Oppa Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.09.03 20:35:00 - [13] - Quote I have no problem doing well with heavy. The only reason I die a lot is because I will get greedy and run into the open so I can test out my Forge gun.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.03 22:59:00 - [14] - Quote I play as an assault as i mentioned earlier and typically i can solo any other assault suit i come in contact with, its the heavys with the HMGs that make me stop and think, i have to be smart about how i take them out due to their raw DPS, they are deadly, just need a little tweaking i think.
Roccano1 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.09.03 23:08:00 - [15] - Quote Kyy Seiska wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Heavy = free kill (currently) Not really, they can still kick your butt if you get too close with bigger armor and shield. For anything else than that, they are just slow moving bullet sponges. More like dry paper towels.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.09.03 23:15:00 - [16] - Quote Heavies do much, much better with someone to support them. Whether that means a scout providing sniper fire from far away, an assault up front next to him on the battlefield, or a logi providing resupplies, repairs, and revives. Hell, you could even have a second heavy to help you out.
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.09.04 01:27:00 - [17] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Against an assault: Heavy still at disadvantage. In cqc, they heavy has a decent shot, however it's the medium to longer ranges where they're in trouble. If they get caught by an assault in this range, the heavy is too slow to get out of trouble quickly. Before, they maybe had enough armor to eat some bullets, and give them enough time to get to cover. Now, they have little chance....and as I mentioned before, their HMG doesn't help them at medium to long range. We need to stop thinking about Dust in relation to the last build, because the last build was unbalanced as ****. In the last build the Heavy made the Assault Dropsuit superfluous as with an assault rifle it was just as versatile as the assault, but had significantly more armor and the lesser speed wasn't sufficient enough to matter in that kind of gun-fight. Often a fight with a heavy in an assault suit would involve you having to dump two magazines into him whereas he could do it in one. The problem with Heavies in the current build isn't armor and shields or speed, it's their weapons. The Heavy Machinegun doesn't act like a machinegun, it has lots of ammo, but it's not capable of suppressing the enemy. The point of a machinegun isn't to run forward and assault, it's to make the enemy stay behind cover so your other forces can assault and ruin the day of anyone who tries to leave their cover. See a Heavy with an HMG across an big open field should be the thing infantry dread. In order to accomplish this the HMG needs more range and more damage to be sufficiently imposing to deter closing on him, to balance this out the HMGs cooldown and reload time can be increased to compensate. For their anti-vehicular weapons the heavy needs a serious buff against tanks. In current build unless you're lucky to have a veteran heavy with advanced or prototype swarm launcher or forge gun, which is rare since the heavy is a very niche role to begin with, then you're inevitably going to have one guy in a Gunnlogi or a Madrugar rapestomping people all over the map as five militia-level swarm launchers consecutively slam into his shield for negligible damage while he laughs his ass off. I'm not of the opinion that a Heavy should be able to take a direct shot from a railgun or that you should be able to solo tanks with regularity, but I do think a militia-level AV weapons should at least be a threat to veteran tankers.
Clone Number 1 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:04:00 - [18] - Quote So it sounds liike the heavy is getting a better gun but the armor hit point nerf is here to stay, any new thoughts s about this Not sure what the help of the gun will do unless it mows through vehicles
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:21:00 - [19] - Quote Clone Number 1 wrote: So it sounds liike the heavy is getting a better gun but the armor hit point nerf is here to stay, any new thoughts s about this Not sure what the help of the gun will do unless it mows through vehicles I have to say the heavy does seem like it suffers more than the other dropsuits since the hp nerf. Even after we moved into the new build once the turning speed was slowed down a good scout can spin around a heavy without the heavy able to leave a finger on him.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:34:00 - [20] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Heavy = free kill (currently) I dont know about that I been throwing the fat girl around and she's doing ok.

Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:08:00 - [21] - Quote If hit detection was perfect, a good scout could circle strafe a heavy to death even faster. The turn speed on a heavy suit is a joke.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:33:00 - [22] - Quote Unlike tanks, the heavy suit takes 2 players to use effectively. Need logi with an assault rifle and good rep tool and nanite injectors as back up. Heavy can control mobs during blob fights while the logi reps the heavy. The Logi can kite enemies from a distance or take out targets at range it they try to flank the heavy. A tank is a much better heavy suit than a heavy suit.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:41:00 - [23] - Quote Heavies need more modules and stronger CPU. Create better modules to enchance speed and preformance that's too CPU heavy usage for scouts, and beta test it out. Otherwise Heavies just sorta suck.


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