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Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
You are the company we came to know and love because you have created unique, innovative, player-driven game mechanics with EVE.
You consistently respected the player base, and even encouraged its misdemeanors GÇö turning them to the game's advantage.
I think there's no denying the fact that Dust514 is aiming to keep the spirit of EVE alive, through a new console experience that's faster, more intense but as compelling and engaging in every way.
It's a game concept meant to innovate the FPS genre by including customization mechanics and player involvement like never before GÇö one where a single person may change the tides of the battle.
But even if some of the game's mechanics are involving, some principles remain the same. Skirmish is about taking objectives, and Ambush is about scoring points.
Ambush is somehow very off-concept. It does not promote player cooperation, it doesn't allow each player to have a role of importance, and it doesn't allow for "unexpected player behavior" where all the fun is about taking advantage of the environment or certain game aspects.
It's merely an arena like every other FPS out there GÇö which is probably a constraint that you have in building this game GÇö but I'm sure you can work around this and make Ambush the actual "ambush" it's supposed to be.
What's that, you say ? Ask the player base, as you always do, they have ideas. But please don't leave this as is just for the sake of simplicity or market demand.
Dust514 may be available at no cost, but the currency players are paying with is time. I'm ready to spend my time in something awesome.
So like most posts here I'll ask you for the impossible GÇö make my awesome happen :)
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Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.08.28 16:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
There are plenty of people that will want to play Ambush, and as beta testers our job is to make sure everything, including things we personally don't enjoy, work. You'll get your ability to opt out of it when the game goes live, if not before. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
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Posted - 2012.08.28 17:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
We're not really beta testers, you know GÇö there are QA people at CCP whom actually do that job in a much more meticulous and comprehensive way.
We're consumers with a chance to try out this game early, because CCP and Sony are smart marketers, and have every reason to be.
While I'm sure Ambush caters to a certain kind of playerbase, it doesn't mean it shouldn't feature mechanics that are appealing only this playerbase, and ostracizing to the other.
A good game is a game that can be as inclusive as possible, and without changing a lot of things I'm sure our feedback can help move Ambush out of its statu quo and up towards something everyone can get their kicks from. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
That's only true of open betas. Open betas are basically a demo. We're still under NDA, we are playing with an unstable client on an unstable server, and a large portion of the game's content and features still haven't been implemented. This is most definitely a true beta. |
Clone Number 1
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
77
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Posted - 2012.08.28 17:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
I love ambush so many kills in quick succession |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die
37
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Posted - 2012.08.28 17:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like ambush the way it is, but if its inproved to have a few mroe concepts but still has the objective to kill that would be awsome (maybe controll certain clone buildings and you receive more reinforcments to your side) also since ambushes objective is kill, killing shold give you mroe SP. Having it the same worth in skirmish 9and killing is the 2nd objective in skirmish) doesn`t make much sense. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:That's only true of open betas. Open betas are basically a demo. We're still under NDA, we are playing with an unstable client on an unstable server, and a large portion of the game's content and features still haven't been implemented. This is most definitely a true beta.
Okay, to your credit this isn't an open beta. But the state of this game being beta doesn't automatically mean we're beta testers. We're consumers with an interest GÇö early adopters. People who especially like playing these kinds of games. And in that respect, opinions count more than bug reporting towards making this a commercial success GÇö and a fun game.
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Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dunno about this doesn't promote team work stuff, in ambushes i often see groups of players working together to hold either supply points or good camping areas. I love ambush maps, nice quick fun lots of kills. |
SoLJae
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
351
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
I much prefer Skirmish, however it will be necessary for CCP to include TDM..er i mean Ambush, as it is a game in the FPS genre.
We have enough cry babies on this forum now. Can you imagine the crying that will happen if there is no team deathmatch for the great unwashed masses to play.
I can see the little whiny threads popping up already.
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Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
SoLJae wrote:I much prefer Skirmish, however it will be necessary for CCP to include TDM..er i mean Ambush, as it is a game in the FPS genre.
We have enough cry babies on this forum now. Can you imagine the crying that will happen if there is no team deathmatch for the great unwashed masses to play.
I can see the little whiny threads popping up already.
I agree removing Ambush wouldn't be a solution GÇö just put players with guns on a map and already there's potential for fun. It's just that, in developing a game that strives to push the FPS genre further, sticking with conventions is a tad disappointing. Adding just a few game elements / Ambush-specific mechanics would spice it up for everyone without complicating the gameplay. That's where I'm hoping CCP will thread. |
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Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Apparently a large amount of players don't like ambush, a large amount of players are very bad at this game too, I wonder if there is a connection, I'd wager a lot of bad players see their self worth connected to getting 2 assists and a hack in a skirmish, i guess they savor the 400m they have to run before getting killed on a skirmish map. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Apparently a large amount of players don't like ambush, a large amount of players are very bad at this game too, I wonder if there is a connection, I'd wager a lot of bad players see their self worth connected to getting 2 assists and a hack in a skirmish, i guess they savor the 400m they have to run before getting killed on a skirmish map.
You could see Ambush and Skirmish as two different ways to approach FPS gameplay GÇö strategy or action.
What people love about running 400m to kill or get killed is that every one of these meters is subject to fast change in context and allows them to think about the best way to solve a problem. It's more about concept.
What people love about Ambush is the pure adrenaline of the fight, without too much lenghty preparation. Strategies in Ambush are quicker, decisions are made faster. It's more about skills.
Problem is, Ambush aficionados can still find a way to enjoy themselves in Skirmish, while the opposite isn't true.
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Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
They have to include ambush, so they also have to test ambush. Its all part of the process. A console FPS without a deathmatch would be bad business. Just the fact of it. |
Hawkings Greenback
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
25
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Posted - 2012.08.28 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Apparently a large amount of players don't like ambush, a large amount of players are very bad at this game too, I wonder if there is a connection, I'd wager a lot of bad players see their self worth connected to getting 2 assists and a hack in a skirmish, i guess they savor the 400m they have to run before getting killed on a skirmish map. You could see Ambush and Skirmish as two different ways to approach FPS gameplay GÇö strategy or action. What people love about running 400m to kill or get killed is that every one of these meters is subject to fast change in context and allows them to think about the best way to solve a problem. It's more about concept. What people love about Ambush is the pure adrenaline of the fight, without too much lenghty preparation. Strategies in Ambush are quicker, decisions are made faster. It's more about skills. Problem is, Ambush aficionados can still find a way to enjoy themselves in Skirmish, while the opposite isn't true.
Honestly on the last build i never played the ambush maps ( yeah you could say i am not that good at FPS ) I have seen people quit the moment the map loads & I find it quite funny, however i actually quite like it atm.
The Ambush maps are as full of strategy or action as the Skirmish ones but as you say the pace of gameplay can be frighteningy fast & i have been on the end of some steamrolling on there due to better team work & tactics ( which i think it promotes more than Skirmish ).
Just my 2 isk |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Let's say we're not stopping at statu quo.
What if we were given the mandate to find something to make Ambush better than what it is.
What would you all suggest ? |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ambush sucks. |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:Let's say we're not stopping at statu quo.
What if we were given the mandate to find something to make Ambush better than what it is.
What would you all suggest ? Nothing, except maps with more cover (though I'd suggest that for every gamemode).
Fact is, Ambush is that mode where you can jump in and not do anything that's too cerebral or difficult, and just spend an hour or two shooting things. I think it's good that it stays that way. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Etero Narciss wrote:Nate Silverley wrote:Let's say we're not stopping at statu quo.
What if we were given the mandate to find something to make Ambush better than what it is.
What would you all suggest ? Nothing, except maps with more cover (though I'd suggest that for every gamemode). Fact is, Ambush is that mode where you can jump in and not do anything that's too cerebral or difficult, and just spend an hour or two shooting things. I think it's good that it stays that way.
It'd be that if there wasn't the whole suit customization thing with extra sauce. What if you had ambush-specific outfitting and weaponry? |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nate is correct on a lot of points:
CCP could, by listening to player input and being creative in their approach, turn fast easy game mode (ambush) into something that inspires player interaction
And I agree that this is not the kind of closed beta that makes me feel like a tester. I feel like the early adopter described above. Fix it how? If CCP would give us guidance, input and feedback regarding what we should be testing and how our efforts are changing things, I would feel more like a tester and less like a test subject
I too have great hopes for dust. And those hopes spring almost entirely from my experience with CCP and eve
Some things they do well as a company. But some things they could try different approaches and I think they would gain a lot more traction with the community |
VigSniper101
204
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:Let's say we're not stopping at statu quo.
What if we were given the mandate to find something to make Ambush better than what it is.
What would you all suggest ?
Id send the Devs to go play TDM on Warhawk;
-Team bases -Many different set spawn points[main base and lesser ones] -Installations and supplies
Hell, l see Skirmish as a true Team Death Match mode......just adjust MCC to team clone count and you have your Ambush game improved.
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howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 19:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ambush improvement suggestion:
I agree with some posters that we shouldn't be rid of the concept and game mode that is Ambush
It provides a fast, simple ' get in the game and pull triggers' option that is appealing to many
Skirmish and other modes that we will hopefully see can provide much more depth and complexity
But what if ambush had optional bonus conditions that might give teams opportunity to try different gameplay?
Like, if your squad finished with the lowest number of deaths or the highest kills you might get bonus salvage or SP
Or if your squad deployed X amount of gear in isk value while still finishing on the winning side they would get a small bonus or achievement. ( not a great idea but I am brainstorming here)
Just thinking of things you could do, as a squad ( player interaction) in ambush that the game could reward you for while not removing the "death match" aspect of ambush
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Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
393
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 19:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:We're not really beta testers, you know GÇö there are QA people at CCP whom actually do that job in a much more meticulous and comprehensive way.
We're consumers with a chance to try out this game early, because CCP and Sony are smart marketers, and have every reason to be.
While I'm sure Ambush caters to a certain kind of playerbase, it doesn't mean it shouldn't feature mechanics that are appealing only this playerbase, and ostracizing to the other.
A good game is a game that can be as inclusive as possible, and without changing a lot of things I'm sure our feedback can help move Ambush out of its statu quo and up towards something everyone can get their kicks from.
False. IMO |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
673
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 19:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:You are the company we came to know and love because you have created unique, innovative, player-driven game mechanics with EVE.
You consistently respected the player base, and even encouraged its misdemeanors GÇö turning them to the game's advantage.
I think there's no denying the fact that Dust514 is aiming to keep the spirit of EVE alive, through a new console experience that's faster, more intense but as compelling and engaging in every way.
It's a game concept meant to innovate the FPS genre by including customization mechanics and player involvement like never before GÇö one where a single person may change the tides of the battle.
But even if some of the game's mechanics are involving, some principles remain the same. Skirmish is about taking objectives, and Ambush is about scoring points.
Ambush is somehow very off-concept. It does not promote player cooperation, it doesn't allow each player to have a role of importance, and it doesn't allow for "unexpected player behavior" where all the fun is about taking advantage of the environment or certain game aspects.
It's merely an arena like every other FPS out there GÇö which is probably a constraint that you have in building this game GÇö but I'm sure you can work around this and make Ambush the actual "ambush" it's supposed to be.
What's that, you say ? Ask the player base, as you always do, they have ideas. But please don't leave this as is just for the sake of simplicity or market demand.
Dust514 may be available at no cost, but the currency players are paying with is time. I'm ready to spend my time in something awesome.
So like most posts here I'll ask you for the impossible GÇö make my awesome happen :)
Think yourself lucky we get to test dust, we are here to test......that's our role, they need for us to test ambush which is why they took down the battle finder and are making us use instant battle. I don't like ambush either but we have to test what they NEED us to test. As much as I don't like team deathmatch modes (thanks to cod) ambush IS starting to grow on me. If you don't like ambush then wait it out until they bring back battle finder, if you don't wish to wait it out.......then suck it up and do what you're here to do..............TEST!
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Michael P Jagger
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 19:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about making Ambush.... ambush.
The Ambushing team spawns together in the centre of the map.
The Travelling team spawns together on one side of the map behind a line.
One minute after everyone spawns the line drops and travellers' job is to get five players across the line at the opposite side of the map. No vehicles allowed. Narrow maps.
Time limit and a team going to zero players end the game just like the current ambush.
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Arc Brimstone
Stella Pulvis
4
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Posted - 2012.08.28 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think ambush is fine the way it is. I actually prefer it to skirmish. On ambush my team can suck, but I can still personally have a good round. In skirmish, if your team sucks you're probably going to have a pretty terrible round. CCP does need to reintroduce a way to opt out of certain game types though. Maybe make a "Instant Battle" for each game mode. The main thing everyone needs to remember though is that this is only a fraction of what most of us are actually going to be doing once the game is officially released. I seriously doubt we're even seeing a quarter of the actual game. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 19:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ambush makes ZERO sense in the EVE/Dust universe.
Escort..
Abduct..
Destroy..
Capture..
but Kill for no profit?
Pointless except for eSports |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.28 19:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
As I learned last night, it's pretty fun with a squad that works together. Someone can get into a safe-ish spot, drop an uplink and then the whole squad spawns there and moves together.
It's not as fun as skirmish, but a lot more fun that playing ambush with randoms. I agree that random ambush is completely pointless and unfun. Actually, random skirmish is only marginally more fun. |
DH STARBURNER420
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.08.28 19:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:I dunno about this doesn't promote team work stuff, in ambushes i often see groups of players working together to hold either supply points or good camping areas. I love ambush maps, nice quick fun lots of kills.
This is what I like to do in ambush, make defending the supply depot my objective at all costs! |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 20:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
DH STARBURNER420 wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:I dunno about this doesn't promote team work stuff, in ambushes i often see groups of players working together to hold either supply points or good camping areas. I love ambush maps, nice quick fun lots of kills. This is what I like to do in ambush, make defending the supply depot my objective at all costs!
That's a great idea! What if Ambush was all about defending a supply depot. Said depot has 10,000 hit points and the attacking team is just trying to lower the count until destroyed. |
Dakir Osaka
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2012.08.28 20:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Skirmish just plays right into premade squads hands at least in Ambush a lone soldier has a chance to increase there teams chances of winning. In skirmish with all the squad co-op going on it really doesnt matter what you do sometimes. Yes I know your all going to say make your own squad but sometimes I dont want to I just want to log on and kill stuff with a beer and then go to bed... and ambush fits that idea perfectley |
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