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Please change the militia LAV to a BPC like the rest of the vehicles

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Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.27 22:50:00 - [1] - Quote I get that you want to have everyone a 'starter' vehicle, but these things are nothing but free points and entirely harmless and useless, being spammed like a plague now that the other militia vehicles are no longer free. Every match I join I see countless militia LAV called in. Most of them I (or others) destroy before they can even be delivered by the RDV, making them nothing but a free 240 points. (+150 for RDV kill, +40 for militia LAV kill, and +50 for the kill of the poor sap who called it down) Easy solution? Give every player 25-50 or so of these to start off, and then after they use up those BPCs, they will need to purchase them. 25-50 easily gives them time to see if they like LAVs and to train into them. On the note of BPCS though, make the militia vehicles cheaper! For 'entry level' stuff, they are far too exspensive in relation to their effectiveness. There really isn't much point in buying the militia vehicles at all, right now when for a pittance more you get a vehicle that is twice as effective! Drop militia dropships and HAV to like 40-50k each and we'll be in a good spot. Make Militia LAV 15-20k.
Otosan Ookami Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2012.08.27 22:52:00 - [2] - Quote last night... 5 Bolas + Onikuma in a row... but I felt so ripped off by only getting ONE kill assist. It IS a bit silly right now, but at least they're good with a little BBQ sauce.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 22:52:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah if you make our milita suits one time use I say nothing gets spared.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.27 23:06:00 - [4] - Quote The starter fit should stay how it is unless you want to pay for starter fits
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.08.27 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote They are coffins with wheels.... Don't stay in them for too long
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.08.28 00:01:00 - [6] - Quote I don't have a problem with it, like you said. they are harmless. I don't see why they should be limited.
Kengfa 138	Posted - 2012.08.28 00:54:00 - [7] - Quote I've used nothing but onikumas all day and have gone positive in each game. I like to run bitches over. Maybe make us buy the wheels separately? But if that's the case, i want to be able to choose the type of wheels.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.08.28 03:56:00 - [8] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: I get that you want to have everyone a 'starter' vehicle, but these things are nothing but free points and entirely harmless and useless, being spammed like a plague now that the other militia vehicles are no longer free. Every match I join I see countless militia LAV called in. Most of them I (or others) destroy before they can even be delivered by the RDV, making them nothing but a free 240 points. (+150 for RDV kill, +40 for militia LAV kill, and +50 for the kill of the poor sap who called it down) Easy solution? Give every player 25-50 or so of these to start off, and then after they use up those BPCs, they will need to purchase them. 25-50 easily gives them time to see if they like LAVs and to train into them. On the note of BPCS though, make the militia vehicles cheaper! For 'entry level' stuff, they are far too exspensive in relation to their effectiveness. There really isn't much point in buying the militia vehicles at all, right now when for a pittance more you get a vehicle that is twice as effective! Drop militia dropships and HAV to like 40-50k each and we'll be in a good spot. Make Militia LAV 15-20k. i will disagree the maps are big i tend to use the starter vehicle to get around take out a proper free mode to get around these maps which btw are bigger than lolbf3 maps then u have ppl having to run endlessly from 1 objective to the other and with a stamina bar this is even worse than doin it on lolbf3 smaller big maps with unlimited stamina........not gonna go over well with peeps as u said they are mainly harmless so why make it a BPC? who has a complaint over these LAVs really to warrant it a BPC? agree with ur point on lowering milita costs but idk about tanks ive seens some well fit milita tanks soak up AV nades so idk if 40-50K is right for HAVs...maybe 75K and have dropships down to 50-60K right now no one uses dropships and when they do its comical to see them struggle to stay up with the new controls PS: CCP fix yo vehicle controls they suck badly...even tho ive gotten good with LAV handling it still needs options
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.28 03:59:00 - [9] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I don't have a problem with it, like you said. they are harmless. I don't see why they should be limited. The main reason for them being limited is because they are harmless, useless vehicles and all they do is clog up vehicle slots for people who want to call in more useful vehicles. They should be stepping stones. People should have a reason to upgrade them. There's no reason to upgrade a free item, even if the paid one is better. If people want to drive LAVs after they use up their free stock, they should have to pay for them. While they're paying for them, that gives them incentive to upgrade anyways. Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining about them. I love the free points they give me. But at the same time, It's bad for the game. Free stuff is always going to be spammed. Free stuff that inhibits your team from using more useful, costly stuff is bad
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.08.28 04:14:00 - [10] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I don't have a problem with it, like you said. they are harmless. I don't see why they should be limited. The main reason for them being limited is because they are harmless, useless vehicles and all they do is clog up vehicle slots for people who want to call in more useful vehicles. They should be stepping stones. People should have a reason to upgrade them. There's no reason to upgrade a free item, even if the paid one is better. If people want to drive LAVs after they use up their free stock, they should have to pay for them. While they're paying for them, that gives them incentive to upgrade anyways. Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining about them. I love the free points they give me. But at the same time, It's bad for the game. Free stuff is always going to be spammed. Free stuff that inhibits your team from using more useful, costly stuff is bad wrong. i always look at games the way they meant to be played and team based shooters i look at it from a team perspective and the only way u actually get a proper team perspective is via clans/corps so i will say u are wrong in the bolded part as it wont inhibit actual teams from using more useful stuff , this only inhibits ppl in pub games where TBQH randoms dont really give a **** about coordinating on any large scale or whats best for the team they play to have fun or play the way they see fit 90% of the time so making them paid just hurting the hisec arena tbh and there goes the casuals proper corp play this isnt a problem so should remain free imho i use the free lav to get around because my team is being generally useless most times so i go for a ride and cap the objectives that are unguarded instead of trying to fight a zerg rush. hoppin out to cap said objectives usually results in my transport gettin blown up or some teammate jackin it to get it blown up and that would cost me ISK

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.08.28 04:58:00 - [11] - Quote I agree with Mavado V Noriega about the need for a free mode of transport on such large maps.
Skytt Syysch Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.08.28 05:20:00 - [12] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I agree with Mavado V Noriega about the need for a free mode of transport on such large maps. I disagree with this. As we saw with last build, people will just use free taxis as much as possible. The LAVs have the potential to be a stationary missile platform, and they cost nothing to the user. You can blow it up all you want, hell the same person can call in 10 of them in one match, and it costs them zero ISK. The fact that they can fit weapons to them that can oneshot many suits running around and that they have no cost to the user is why I feel they should be BPCs. I'm more restricting than Nova and I'd have called for 5-10 of them to be given to new characters, but as long as they aren't free and infinite, I'd be happy. If you want your mode of transport that you're just gonna zip across the map and then ditch, it should cost you something.
Chris Gaechmoor Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 76	Posted - 2012.08.28 06:39:00 - [13] - Quote Skytt Syysch wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I agree with Mavado V Noriega about the need for a free mode of transport on such large maps. I disagree with this. As we saw with last build, people will just use free taxis as much as possible. The LAVs have the potential to be a stationary missile platform, and they cost nothing to the user. You can blow it up all you want, hell the same person can call in 10 of them in one match, and it costs them zero ISK. The fact that they can fit weapons to them that can oneshot many suits running around and that they have no cost to the user is why I feel they should be BPCs. I'm more restricting than Nova and I'd have called for 5-10 of them to be given to new characters, but as long as they aren't free and infinite, I'd be happy. If you want your mode of transport that you're just gonna zip across the map and then ditch, it should cost you something. Easy fix, remove the rocket turret and put in a blaster. If you want the rocket turret you have to "pay". Case closed..
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.08.28 07:14:00 - [14] - Quote I run around solo in LAVs and often get 10/2 or better, so obviously the OP wants them removed not cause they're free points but because he dies to them all the time.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.28 09:17:00 - [15] - Quote Skytt Syysch wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I agree with Mavado V Noriega about the need for a free mode of transport on such large maps. I disagree with this. As we saw with last build, people will just use free taxis as much as possible. The LAVs have the potential to be a stationary missile platform, and they cost nothing to the user. You can blow it up all you want, hell the same person can call in 10 of them in one match, and it costs them zero ISK. The fact that they can fit weapons to them that can oneshot many suits running around and that they have no cost to the user is why I feel they should be BPCs. I'm more restricting than Nova and I'd have called for 5-10 of them to be given to new characters, but as long as they aren't free and infinite, I'd be happy. If you want your mode of transport that you're just gonna zip across the map and then ditch, it should cost you something. Oneshot many suits? In which world? The current small turrets are taking 2 to 3 shots even on scout suits. The splash damage area is not working that sophisticated and the militia turret is some kind of fireworks display. Actually I see the militia rides as the only way to get a start in vehicle roles (just by adding a better turret). And they are so weak that you can even kill them with militia locus grenades and some shooting. If I look at it right they are just some placeholder for a field transport or two-man vehicle which WILL be a BPO. Having no way of vehicle (however weak it is) transport will turn this game into a world of tanks and snipers steamrolling everyone. What I would agree on though is some low price for the militia LAVs running around 5k - IF they are going to be BPCs.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.28 10:24:00 - [16] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: I run around solo in LAVs and often get 10/2 or better, so obviously the OP wants them removed not cause they're free points but because he dies to them all the time. Uh huh. Nova happens to be one of the best players here. Oh and I think he's HAV driver this build. Stay out of what you don't know about to avoid sounding like a Whiney kid(something you seems to hate). Free LAV are essential, but should probably be restricted to hisec. You have start paying once you leave.
BestNameEva Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 86	Posted - 2012.08.28 11:46:00 - [17] - Quote make them free to call,but if you **** it up you pay
Kincate Algintal Core Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.08.28 12:58:00 - [18] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Rasatsu wrote: I run around solo in LAVs and often get 10/2 or better, so obviously the OP wants them removed not cause they're free points but because he dies to them all the time. Uh huh. Nova happens to be one of the best players here. Oh and I think he's HAV driver this build. Stay out of what you don't know about to avoid sounding like a Whiney kid(something you seems to hate). Free LAV are essential, but should probably be restricted to hisec. You have start paying once you leave. How are they essential? Two builds ago you could call in onikumas free of charge, people would drop them on objectives to prevent hacks, or use them as stationary turrets. Or call them in, drive them somewhere, and ditch them. Last build you had free militia everything... we all remebered how that worked out. If transportation is the only reason your saying free LAVs then prehaps you should just find a way to encourage people to transport people in a dropship. It is one of the things theyre there for.
Amazigh Stormrage Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2012.08.28 13:04:00 - [19] - Quote my oppinion is not to make em free, i see lots of people ust abusing them, having free suits should be enough, simply because i do see people getting the free LAV and go play crash bandit, usst riding arround crashing into anything they can, and why not? they have nothing to loose, hell they even crash into friendly vechicles, blowing them up and killing their teammate who used the LAV or even the HAV with a suit that did cost money,ok, an LAV won't kill a HAV by scrashing intothem, but sure takes away lots of the HAV shields / armor, makingit alot more easy to kill, esspecialy ifits seen someheavy hits or under fire by alot of swarmers / forge guns. kiling their own teammate over time. LAV should be bought like any other vehicle, so they would drive more with care and actualy loose ISK for just crashing and blowing themselves up, can ofc keep it low cost, orhave a limit of free starter LAV>
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.28 13:33:00 - [20] - Quote I agree with the OP, to many people use these to make up for their lack of skill, the only time they manage to get a positive KD is when they run ppl over constantly, moment you get them out of a LAV they go down in 2 seconds flat. Taxi shouldn't be free.

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.08.28 13:37:00 - [21] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: I agree with the OP, to many people use these to make up for their lack of skill, the only time they manage to get a positive KD is when they run ppl over constantly, moment you get them out of a LAV they go down in 2 seconds flat. Taxi shouldn't be free. LOL why arent ppl still not using AV nades? easiest double kill ever when someone tries to run u over tbh Free LAV is fine, as i stated above in corp matches intelligent teams wont spam this useless starter LAV and instead save for more important vehicles
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.08.28 14:06:00 - [22] - Quote I tend to agree that they need to cost something, but the cost should be so low that a person could call a few of them each match without worrying. However, if all of that talk about all of our militia stuff will eventual cost something (besides the 3 starter fits) is true, then I'd think the lav would be included with it. Everything needs to be apart of the economy.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.28 14:51:00 - [23] - Quote Kincate wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Rasatsu wrote: I run around solo in LAVs and often get 10/2 or better, so obviously the OP wants them removed not cause they're free points but because he dies to them all the time. Uh huh. Nova happens to be one of the best players here. Oh and I think he's HAV driver this build. Stay out of what you don't know about to avoid sounding like a Whiney kid(something you seems to hate). Free LAV are essential, but should probably be restricted to hisec. You have start paying once you leave. How are they essential? Two builds ago you could call in onikumas free of charge, people would drop them on objectives to prevent hacks, or use them as stationary turrets. Or call them in, drive them somewhere, and ditch them. Last build you had free militia everything... we all remebered how that worked out. If transportation is the only reason your saying free LAVs then prehaps you should just find a way to encourage people to transport people in a dropship. It is one of the things theyre there for. Hurfblurf getcha 150k taxi which can't go anywhere while there installations. If your friend feels like it. What's Mr Heavy supposed to do for getting around? LAV blockades seems legit to me. Seen them on every game wth vehicles. Bring Av nades and it's no problem. Now the reason they are essential. I've played bough to know a team can be rolled back to their default spawn in skirmish within 2 minutes. With correctly placed heavy weapons/snipers/HAV it becomes a militia fight for the bottle necked team. There's only 2 sensible options. Stay in your spawn, or call a LAV and attempt to escape. Chances are slim but vastly better than trying to walk past 3 HAV. Yes they're free SP for the enemy. But really, how much do uou want to bill those who are going to fight a losing battle? Or would you rather they all just leave battle (rage quit). The more you charge at the low end, the less likely oeople will stay until TE end of a match. This happens 10 times they won't be comming back to Dust. Free LAV's need to be there. Easiest way to kill someone like me in my nice gear too. Seriously decrease the points on killing RDVs. They are free SP.
Kro'nak Ragnok Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 79	Posted - 2012.08.28 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote I think a perfect solution would be to remove the turret in the free LAV. That way people that love LAVs have a reason to actually purchase their customized & upgraded LAVs & the people that simply want to use the LAV as just a mode of transportation can continue to do so. However without the installed turret I suppose the LAV (Light Assault/Attack Vechicles) would have to reclassifed as a LV, lol. On a different topic I feel that passengers in vehicles should be allowed the option to fire their weapons even if it is impossible for them to hit a target while the vehicle is moving. The only reason I can see why that would intentionally not be allowed is in the case of players with repair tools constantly repairing the vehicle while it was taking damage. Can you imagine a dropship with 4 passengers using prototype repair tools constantly repairing it as it was taking damage in addition to the ships repair systems being activated? lol. Perhaps disabling the repair tools effect inside of a vehicle would be a good solution to that.
Bob Deorum G I A N T 14	Posted - 2012.08.28 21:53:00 - [25] - Quote if they add in locking of vehilces then I completely agree with you but until then they need to keep them free. My squad uses them very effectivly but they get stolen alot and it costs to much to bring them down to get stolen.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.08.28 22:31:00 - [26] - Quote in my opinion the baloch (armor based LAV) should be a blueprint aswell. Its kinda unfair that only the Onikuma is free to use. Its stupid that the game prefers shield based players. And lol the Op must have be one of my victims while i used this tactic: -modified militia LAV (costs 0 ISK) -Heavy type II suit with a HMG then i just drive around in it till i found a lonewolf or a sniper, Jump out while the vehicle is on full speed, the lonewolf only looks at the LAV that is still driving a bit further and then i put my HMG into that guys face. Easy kill and when my LAV survived i continue this till the match ended. When it didnt survived i just call in a new 1. I get around 20 kills or more when i do that. i will keep doing this until people are running around in a big group and actually use teamwork instead of sitting somewhere around as a sniper.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.29 20:55:00 - [27] - Quote Thanks for the replies folks. (And thanks for the ego-bump, Tony Calif!) As Tony mentioned, I am mostly driving HAVs this build. Militia LAV are harmless and completely free points for a HAV. But the point was brought up multiple times.. These things are pretty much being used as free taxi or as mobile turret platforms. This is bad. Someone else brought up a good point. If you want a taxi, you should have someone on your team flying a dropship or specced into LAVs... I made another thread here about ways to encourage or reward dropship pilots for actually ferrying troops where they want to/need to go. Free taxis are bad. Transport is an integral part of the battlefeed, but people should be rewarded for fufilling that role. Without such rewards, people are going to continue to spam free taxis for as long as they are there. If you want a free mobile turret well... You should suck it up. At the very least your mobile turret should cost you some ISK. I will give a shoutout to dark cloud though, who uses his LAV pretty cleverly to chase down a HAV or get to a good vantage point to pepper it with swarms. (Even if he couldn't kill my tank) it was a pretty clever tactic. Though, He'd have much more success with a non-militia LAV that I couldn't instablap, and circled it nonstop outrunning the tracking of the HAV main turret.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:13:00 - [28] - Quote game will be boring ppl will leave randoms dont use teamwork ppl will not run 500m to an objective this is a prime example of where EVE thinking will KILL the playerbase the problems u mention nova will not be an issue with proper teamplay but the change u are suggesting will hurt hisec pub games with randoms and casuals causing them to leave keep sayin it what works in EVE will not always translate well to a FPS.....ppl need to think about the broader community and not have everything especially hisec games meant for casuals to be a borefest
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.30 14:34:00 - [29] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: game will be boring ppl will leave randoms dont use teamwork ppl will not run 500m to an objective this is a prime example of where EVE thinking will KILL the playerbase the problems u mention nova will not be an issue with proper teamplay but the change u are suggesting will hurt hisec pub games with randoms and casuals causing them to leave keep sayin it what works in EVE will not always translate well to a FPS.....ppl need to think about the broader community and not have everything especially hisec games meant for casuals to be a borefest How is this "Eve thinking"? This is an FPS problem. People don't want to run 500m to an objective, sure. But that's why it's an incentive for people to actually bother to transport. If they actually added a mechanic/reward like suggested here you can bet your ass I'd be farming points off all the noobs who want a taxi. Free transport isn't the answer. The answer is making the existing transport options more rewarding and attractive! You don't need a whole team of randoms to work together for that. You just need 1-2 players who know their **** and are willing to support their team. There's always a couple in any pub match. But as for 'proper team play' I will call bullshit on that. I make it a habit to play with anyone and everyone I can, and even the 'best' players who work as a cohesive team still abuse the hell out of these for free taxis. It's a problem, but the solution is simple. Make the militia LAV not free, but make them cheaper. Make it easier and rewarding for people to actually fufill a transport role.
Kincate Algintal Core Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.08.30 16:02:00 - [30] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: How is this "Eve thinking"? This is an FPS problem. People don't want to run 500m to an objective, sure. But that's why it's an incentive for people to actually bother to transport. If they actually added a mechanic/reward like suggested here you can bet your ass I'd be farming points off all the noobs who want a taxi. Free transport isn't the answer. The answer is making the existing transport options more rewarding and attractive! You don't need a whole team of randoms to work together for that. You just need 1-2 players who know their **** and are willing to support their team. There's always a couple in any pub match. But as for 'proper team play' I will call bullshit on that. I make it a habit to play with anyone and everyone I can, and even the 'best' players who work as a cohesive team still abuse the hell out of these for free taxis. It's a problem, but the solution is simple. Make the militia LAV not free, but make them cheaper. Make it easier and rewarding for people to actually fufill a transport role. Agreed +1

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.30 16:38:00 - [31] - Quote I do feel a free taxi is essential. But it should be free points for anyone wanting it dead. Also removing the turret would make it literally a taxi. Just to put this into perspective I played BF3 when it came out. I played Kharg island. I fell in the water and had over 800 meters to te nearest objective. It happened 2-3 times and I just stopped playing. No interest in 1km run/swim. Yes I'm a tit for ending up in the water... 3-4 times... I'll be gutted if I have to pay for my taxi, because I still wont take care of it. I can't take care of it. I have to fight everyone off the objective and cap it alone!!! (standard story for my games). I know join a corp yadah yadah... But tbh I cba. The whole "spies will destroy you" thing is quite off putting. Also groups of 4lol. I just wanna be a merc, and I'll need a LAV to be any use. Tbh I don't mind a token price like AV nades. 2k would seem about right IMHO if you have to give it a price. What if the number of free ones per game was limited. I.e. 3 per game? Any more start charging? Edit: LAV's parked on objectives is legit :D (you did bring av nades right?)
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.30 18:26:00 - [32] - Quote You won't ever need a free taxi if someone could actually get points to take up that role. I would personally give up my HAV if flying dropships was more rewarding. If I could get points for kicking ass at running troop transport? Nobody would need a free LAV, because dropships are so much fun. The reason people don't use them is because you earn practically no SP for them. Plugging this thread again, for how to make troop transport more practical and rewarding. The sad fact is, no matter how fun something is, unless it's rewarding in some way, most people will seek other options. Like the free LAV.
Le-gen Dairy 6	Posted - 2012.08.30 19:16:00 - [33] - Quote How about keeping the LAV free but limiting the number of times you can call it in per life? This way the free LAV is still an option but people won't be spamming it constantly. Also, it would force a sort of teamwork mind set since players would have to reach out to others when they are out of LAV drops.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.30 22:07:00 - [34] - Quote :( I see this resulting simply with more HAV's... If you have to pay for a taxi, might as well have a good taxi... which means less to spend on a suit... pros vs cons. It's worth trying just to find out.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.30 22:20:00 - [35] - Quote I think we need to bring back other BPO militia vehicles. I'm tired of having nothing to Swarm at but crap LAVs and super tanks. That or they could, you know, actually balance the AV aspects of the game. There seems to be very little middle ground between useless and overpowered.


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