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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't care what anyone says, the strafing speed of higher level scout suits is over the top. .6 might not seem like much of a difference, but in practice it certainly is. The sprint and straight line speed is fine, but the lateral strafing speed needs to be looked at. I know they have reduced fitting space. I know they're tender if they stand still, but only a terrible scout is actually going to stand still. In my Dragonfly suit I can outrun grenades and run circles around everyone with an SMG or AR until they're dead. There's no way they're going to kill me unless I get caught up in terrain or they bring three other people, and even then, I'll kill two of them before I go down. It's so bad I can literally unload an entire clip into someone and continue strafing while I reload and kill off his friends, no need to even switch weapons.
I don't like to call for nerfs and I rarely even sign on to them, but with this build, there's really no reason to spec into anything but scout. If it means giving scout an armor and shield boost to compensate for a lowering of strafing speed, then so be it.
This thread is going to generate a ton of hate but so be it, Scout is over the top. |
Bo Tracta
Celtic Anarchy
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
If there was a weapon that could slow enemies down it would be great. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bo Tracta wrote:If there was a weapon that could slow enemies down it would be great.
I'd give my left nut for a Stasis web. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
NO NERF CLUB
Adjust the strafe speed of everyone else. |
Drake Gro'Dar
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Im a heavy so scouts can run circles around me but most of the time I win because I lead my shots, nothing more satisfying then watching a scout jump into the stream of death that my HMG spits out lol. But I'll agree scouts do move fast it could be toned down just alittle and let them retain their edge in battle |
pjwarrior long
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
scouts are meant to be very good at speed tanking so they are good at close range. But if someone is in a scout suit far away, it is pretty easy to kill him... I know by first hand experience on both sides of the battle. |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
326
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scout suits sucks. They don't have the best fitting loadout unlike Logistic. |
Leo Plaude
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Abron Garr wrote:Bo Tracta wrote:If there was a weapon that could slow enemies down it would be great. I'd give my left nut for a Stasis web.
I'd accept any form of EVE electronic warfare that has been down-sized for the surface fight!
But I'd like to keep my left nut... It's the only one I have left after that scout knifed me in the groin. |
Koranra
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
What about a stasis web grenade, or equipment that you drop. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think this would be a very delicate change, if the speed were lowered just a little too much, it would make them sitting ducks. I think letting people swing around just a little faster would help a lot, and you also have to consider that the hit detection is still kind of wonky. I run scouts, but I've been running scouts since the second build, they're just very fun to play ^_^ |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garr, it's just the fact everyone else sucks. Scouts are lol funny when you have an assault SMG. They just fall down dead. If there is a problem I agree with Crimson. Bring others up instead of bringing the scout down. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 00:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Garr, it's just the fact everyone else sucks. Scouts are lol funny when you have an assault SMG. They just fall down dead. If there is a problem I agree with Crimson. Bring others up instead of bringing the scout down.
As much as I'd like to take credit for being better than most, I can't really do that. I think I'm an upper mid-level player so it's not me being better. I'm fine with being able to do certain things in a scout suit better than the other suits, but I just feel that the strafing is a tad too high. It should be the highest strafing suit, but right now I think it's too much. |
The Goram Batman
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
I personally haven't had an issue with the Scout suits. You just have to compensate your aim a little bit, and make sure they don't get close and you're good. You only need a few shots through their paper thin health and they're dead. |
Sake Monster
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
353
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
No amount of lateral speed can dodge a well placed Mass Driver round's splash damage. Try it, it works wonderfully against the scout suit.
Come at me Scout bros.... |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well some people are using heavy's with a shotgun as a counter. Saw that allready too many times happening when a scout outruns a heavy he just gets a shotgun. Cause 1 hit with a shotgun on a scout= dead. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Garr, it's just the fact everyone else sucks. Scouts are lol funny when you have an assault SMG. They just fall down dead. If there is a problem I agree with Crimson. Bring others up instead of bringing the scout down.
Sure I run SMG. Got killed by Ignatious in a scout suit and I was in assault using my SMG sidearm. Then I went back in a scout suit and tried my SMG again with no damage on the enemy. Then I went with my SHOTGUN and SCOUT combo and after 8 shots at POINTBLANK range I was DEAD again and Ing was there with ZERO damage from all my SHOTGUN shots.
How about we FIX! the hit detection issues!!
|
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
You are saying a light and agile suit is light and agile? |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum!
No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha.
I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people.
Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha!
Edit:
Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. |
LIEUTENANT JORDAN
BetaMax.
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scout are not good just because they have good strafe/movement speed. They are good because of the added lag and inconsistent hit detection which i do not believe is something that ccp is not can just easily change or fix. Once lag and hit detection are improved they wont seem OP at all.
Tips for fighting them: Keep your distance , try to get them out in the open areas, and obviously lead you targets. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting.
Please inform me on what was sarcastic |
|
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. Please inform me on what was sarcastic
The lack of your period? No, but seriously where is that period? Ha-ha.
I kidd, I kidd. |
Icedslayer
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
I hate to burst your bubble but Scouts aren't invincible. Hit detection along with lag and low/choppy Fps makes them seem invincible, but among all that there are many things that will take scouts out very easily, Any Anti-infantry grenade, Mass drivers, Shotguns(scare me the most cause of the instant death), Charged Sniper rifle, Forge gun, and if your a good shot the scrambler pistol (takes only a hand full of shots). Should the Strafe speed be nerfed, i don't personally think so. I think if you nerf 1 of the 2 critical aspects of being a Scout (Speed and fast shield recharge) your basically turning it into a weak Assault suite. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. Please inform me on what was sarcastic The lack of your period? No, but seriously where is that period? Ha-ha. I kidd, I kidd.
Seriously I'm not sure if you like or hate scouts |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Icedslayer wrote:I hate to burst your bubble but Scouts aren't invincible. Hit detection along with lag and low/choppy Fps makes them seem invincible, but among all that there are many things that will take scouts out very easily, Any Anti-infantry grenade, Mass drivers, Shotguns(scare me the most cause of the instant death), Charged Sniper rifle, Forge gun, and if your a good shot the scrambler pistol (takes only a hand full of shots). Should the Strafe speed be nerfed, i don't personally think so. I think if you nerf 1 of the 2 critical aspects of being a Scout (Speed and fast shield recharge) your basically turning it into a weak Assault suite.
Yup. I have tried to tell them how easy it is to kill us, but people want another SVER. Something to grief over, and complain. Then like conformist something they can ruin by being it. Griefing and queefing. Yup.
Everyone bust out your orange and black trash bags! Oh and do not forget duct tape. Lots, and lots of duct tape. They should just make the SVER suit the scout. Instead of the logistical dropsuit. Ha-ha.
No, but seriously we die very easily. Stub you're toe? Thats eighty percent of your shields. Fall two feet off a ledge? All of your shields and twenty percent of your health. We're sickly, and die too easily. XD |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. Please inform me on what was sarcastic The lack of your period? No, but seriously where is that period? Ha-ha. I kidd, I kidd. Seriously I'm not sure if you like or hate scouts
I like the scout. I play the equivalent of a scout in most FPS titles I play. I play quick and hit harder. What I dislike above all else are conformist. People are jumping ship and joining the scout ranks just because, they believe any and everything. If you put it on the interent -- well the stupid flock to it, and believe it. Same happened to SVER in MAG. I'm dreading this happening to Dust514. It's lame. Granted I'll give you the scout is annoying at times. Frame rate may play an issue during certain situations, but overall? Scouts are parafin paper. People over exaggerate and stretch the truths. It starts with one person complaining, and someone buys into it, and then another, and another. It's a cascade affect. Look at history, and you'll see a pattern. People do it to themselves.
I was serious. I am borderlining leaving the scout behind simply because, of conformist. I just want my command suit though. Been asking for that since day one of the E3 build. Yup. Selfish? Maybe. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. Please inform me on what was sarcastic The lack of your period? No, but seriously where is that period? Ha-ha. I kidd, I kidd. Seriously I'm not sure if you like or hate scouts I like the scout. I play the equivalent of a scout in most FPS titles I play. I play quick and hit harder. What I dislike above all else are conformist. People are jumping ship and joining the scout ranks just because, they believe any and everything. If you put it on the interent -- well the stupid flock to it, and believe it. Same happened to SVER in MAG. I'm dreading this happening to Dust514. It's lame. Granted I'll give you the scout is annoying at times. Frame rate may play an issue during certain situations, but overall? Scouts are parafin paper. People over exaggerate and stretch the truths. It starts with one person complaining, and someone buys into it, and then another, and another. It's a cascade affect. Look at history, and you'll see a pattern. People do it to themselves. I was serious. I am borderlining leaving the scout behind simply because, of conformist. I just want my command suit though. Been asking for that since day one of the E3 build. Yup. Selfish? Maybe. no matter what suit you choose, you're still a conformist [:twisted:] people are just tired of not being able to hit scouts and decided to use them against you. It's not conforming, it's adapting sociopath
|
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eh.. No. Also they are not killing me. Infact my deaths occur most by assaults, and heavies. Tanks leading in third place with scouts in fourth, and logisticals in last next to dropships. Which oddly enough this build I have not been squished by yet?! Whoa. Still. No.
Also context?
"It's adapting sociopath." |
Ashe Kelly
Doomheim
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Abron Garr wrote:Bo Tracta wrote:If there was a weapon that could slow enemies down it would be great. I'd give my left nut for a Stasis web.
Target painter would be awesome too. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Eh.. No. Also they are not killing me. Infact my deaths occur most by assaults, and heavies. Tanks leading in third place with scouts in fourth, and logisticals in last next to dropships. Which oddly enough this build I have not been squished by yet?! Whoa. Still. No.
Also context?
"It's adapting sociopath."
It's show by your tendency to call people conformist |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ah. Uh-huh. Well that is a gross accusation. Funny, but still a gross accusation. |
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STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Ah. Uh-huh. Well that is a gross accusation. Funny, but still a gross accusation.
It suggest you're crazy but it's just an antisocial attitude |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Ah. Uh-huh. Well that is a gross accusation. Funny, but still a gross accusation.
It suggest you're crazy but it's just an antisocial attitude
Oh my... I've been found out.
Sarcasm. Can you sense it there? Ha-ha. Thank you, for the good laugh though.
Back on topic -- "Scouts!" |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:
Ah. Uh-huh. Well that is a gross accusation. Funny, but still a gross accusation.
It suggest you're crazy but it's just an antisocial attitude Oh my... I've been found out. Sarcasm. Can you sense it there? Ha-ha. Thank you, for the good laugh though. Back on topic -- "Scouts!"
I use the dragonfly because i like the look and it's bpo but it earns me a higher kdr than any other suit in a similar setup |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 12:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Icedslayer wrote:I hate to burst your bubble but Scouts aren't invincible. Hit detection along with lag and low/choppy Fps makes them seem invincible, but among all that there are many things that will take scouts out very easily, Any Anti-infantry grenade, Mass drivers, Shotguns(scare me the most cause of the instant death), Charged Sniper rifle, Forge gun, and if your a good shot the scrambler pistol (takes only a hand full of shots). Should the Strafe speed be nerfed, i don't personally think so. I think if you nerf 1 of the 2 critical aspects of being a Scout (Speed and fast shield recharge) your basically turning it into a weak Assault suite.
The counter to the mass driver is just to get in the wielder's face, which also happens to be the Scout's best fighting range. Shotguns, Sniper rifles and even pistol deaths require to you either be sloppy or get hung up on terrain. If it's a 1v1 I'll know when he throws a grenade and where it lands. I'll be able to outrun it. If he cooks it, that's at least two or three seconds of him not shooting which is plenty of time to kill someone with an SMG. Look, I know scouts are not invincible, far from it, but currently they are stepping over the role that Assault was intended to play with better CQC, and even mid to low range combat capabilities. That's my only concern. I want scout to be able to move and strafe faster than the other suits; I'm just asking for it to be toned down a little.
Anyone in Eve who PvPs in frigs and cruisers knows all about keeping your transversal up when approaching or running from a target. Lateral movements and fast orbits overload the tracking of the enemy's guns and you're either unscathed or you take very little damage. If you move in straight lines or stop then you're dead. The same principle works in Dust for Assault and Scout. This is why snipers are no problem, even if there are 10 of them. Currently, the strafing speed of the scout suit is faster than the turn speed of everyone else. I personally think is ridiculous. I can understand the lower turn speed for heavies to compensate for their weapon and heavy armor. but Assault and even logistics should not have a lower turn speed, or at least not a turn speed lower than a Scout can strafe. Either lower the scout strafe speed to say, 5.4, or you have to increase the turn speed of everyone to compensate. |
Sake Monster
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
353
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 13:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Not a good counter against my Mass Driver, Abron. I'll kill us both if you get too close to me and my Mass Driver, and if I'm still at full health I'll kill the scout and walk away with only a damaged logi suit. Many a scout have made that mistake, thinking closer is safer.
I understand the frustration when the hit detection isn't working well, but I don't think scouts need any nerfing, they die just fine. |
Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 13:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
If your not a scout suit yourself try to kill them with explosives, or keep them at arms length.
Strafe speed aside there still paper thin and god help them if they stand still.
This is eve people. Scouts are Frig/interceptors small sigs high speed no tank. If it was easy to kill them upclose no one would use them.
And to a degree if you using the right weapon they are still easy to kill up close SMG |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 13:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sake Monster wrote:Not a good counter against my Mass Driver, Abron. I'll kill us both if you get too close to me and my Mass Driver, and if I'm still at full health I'll kill the scout and walk away with only a damaged logi suit. Many a scout have made that mistake, thinking closer is safer.
I understand the frustration when the hit detection isn't working well, but I don't think scouts need any nerfing, they die just fine.
There's a delay on the mass driver grenade going off if it's too close to the user. I can honestly say I've never been killed by a mass driver by being too close. That's with any suit though. I've almost always dropped the mass driver with zero damage done to me.
I drop people with my SMG much faster than they can kill me with one. As far as dictating range, that's not always possible. and the argument that they are frigates and everyone else is a Cruiser/BS would apply if we had stasis webs and scramblers to shut down their movement, or neuts to cap them out. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Scouts die just fine. (I know I do.) SMG hipfire works the best, but heavies that can aim well will often just tank the damage 1v1. I've snuck up on people before and unloaded on them, only to have them turn around and drop me in a handful of bullets while I'm watching their health bar slowly drop like a reverse loading screen. |
Onieros Voidwalker
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
I like the scout suit as is. Don't turn it into a useless assault suit. If people have issues fighting scouts they should adapt to confront the problem. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
So basically this build brought everything Protoman wanted, and guess what, it makes the gameplay worse. Anyone else surprised? |
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Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
I blame the metagame.
Because a lot of people are specializing into heavy and logistics suits the scout's speed is now starting to become relevant. The best way to defeat a strafing scout is to strafe 45 degrees backwards... this will make the scout's relative rotation to you slower which will allow you to peg them with bullets. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless.
What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob.
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless.
What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob.
Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Abron Garr wrote:mikegunnz wrote:Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless.
What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob.
Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout.
Not sure what you mean. I use mostly assault, and have no prob turning to keep up with a scouts strafe speed. What's your controller sensitivity set to? Perhaps turn it up? Not trying to troll, being serious. The problem I run into is scouts being able to literally just hit left, right, left, right repeatedly on the left stick, and just strafe right through a stream of bullets without anything registering. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
211
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Rorek IronBlood wrote:You really hate me, you really hate me! Oh your tears! So damn delicious... Yum! No, but seriously everytime I see a thread complaining, and griefing over scouts I just laugh. People act like we are invincible. We're not for your information. Ha-ha. I'll tell you what -- convince CCP to release the operator and command dropsuits and I'll stop playing spec ops scout. No, seriously I'm already borderlining on ditching scout simply because, everyone is conforming to it! I hate conformist! UGH! I swear it feels like MAG all over again. How? Because, everyone griefed, whined, complained and moaned about SVER. Then the exodus happened when conformist cry babies left their respective PMC's to join SVER. Oh lord... I hate people. Seriously. Now cry more tears! Mwuahahaha! Edit: Just to so everyone understands some sarcasm is present upon this posting. Please inform me on what was sarcastic The lack of your period? No, but seriously where is that period? Ha-ha. I kidd, I kidd. Seriously I'm not sure if you like or hate scouts I like the scout. I play the equivalent of a scout in most FPS titles I play. I play quick and hit harder. What I dislike above all else are conformist. People are jumping ship and joining the scout ranks just because, they believe any and everything. If you put it on the interent -- well the stupid flock to it, and believe it. Same happened to SVER in MAG. I'm dreading this happening to Dust514. It's lame. Granted I'll give you the scout is annoying at times. Frame rate may play an issue during certain situations, but overall? Scouts are parafin paper. People over exaggerate and stretch the truths. It starts with one person complaining, and someone buys into it, and then another, and another. It's a cascade affect. Look at history, and you'll see a pattern. People do it to themselves. I was serious. I am borderlining leaving the scout behind simply because, of conformist. I just want my command suit though. Been asking for that since day one of the E3 build. Yup. Selfish? Maybe.
Im leaving my scout suit for logi becuase its a lot of fun to play logi and im pointing better anyways.
Unfortunately every one wants to play assault and if they cant play what they think is the right way to play assault they blame it on the what ever they lost the most to in the past few games. the sad thing is if ccp listens to them then all the interesting and dynamic portions of this game will be bleached out.
you wanna fix the scout give the HMG back its dmg. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
211
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
also idiots that run around in craptastic fits like to complain about when all they would have to do is fit the suit well, note not expensively, but well. |
FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Some people will not be happy until this game is cookie-cutter and every single class is the same, and thus made pointless.
People who play suck at scout don't play it and want it nerfed, people who suck at sniping want it nerfed, people who like to snipe think the AR shoots too far, people who don't use vehicles want vehicles nerfed..
I like what the scout class is good at, run-and-gun. I'm sure CCP sees the numbers of what classes are being played and the K:D being pulled with them. It shouldnt be touched based on the vocal minority who can't adapt. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
211
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Norbar Recturus wrote:I blame the metagame.
Because a lot of people are specializing into heavy and logistics suits the scout's speed is now starting to become relevant. The best way to defeat a strafing scout is to strafe 45 degrees backwards... this will make the scout's relative rotation to you slower which will allow you to peg them with bullets.
exactly right dont let the scout set your terms of engagement force him against a wall make him strafe one way for a second or two and you will hit him fast and hard and force him to reverse directions then you dothe same.
scouts are not hard to fight if you know how, this game requires different tactics for every fit you have and fit you fight against. i kill more then i die against every suits not becuase im a scout but becuase i play differently against every suit. most of my deaths are because I misread a suit or its a new suit i haven't faced(heavy with a shotgun Im hunting you and I will find your weakness). When I played assault in the first build it was the same thing and assault have only gotten comparatively stronger.
and now that im playing logi Im having to learn a whole new set of rules and you know what so far the only suit I find screwed up is the heavy. in every way the heavy is inadequit. cant fight tanks any more and cant kill any thing with the HMG. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Abron Garr wrote:mikegunnz wrote:Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless.
What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob.
Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Not sure what you mean. I use mostly assault, and have no prob turning to keep up with a scouts strafe speed. What's your controller sensitivity set to? Perhaps turn it up? Not trying to troll, being serious. The problem I run into is scouts being able to literally just hit left, right, left, right repeatedly on the left stick, and just strafe right through a stream of bullets without anything registering.
I turned every sensitivity to 100 just in case one setting was overriding the others. That's exactly how I strafe. Left, right, randomly back and forth while keeping on the target. It takes multiple enemies or lucky shots to bring me down in the scout suit as long as I have open space. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
This is probably a waste of breathe and text but....
When at 0 to 20 meters a high end scout suit, even dragon fly, can twitch strafe, go left and right quickly covering a 2 meter distance, receives no damage from an automatic weapon something is broke. this is not fairy tale hour and people making stuff up. This is not "You died by scout now you whine" I have many, many hours. Survey the top twenty players, as I have played with many, and it is not even contested that scout suits are flawed. All of them will say "yup, and I'll use it till I am bored or they fix it".
As soon as someone says it is fine I just assume they have less then 20 hours and have not even seen twitch strafe.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
problem isnt the suit its the hit detection tbh ur bullets should hit where u aim at not have to lead at every range with a scout simply moving side to side thats what allows scouts to just wiggle their sticks back and forth frantically and spray. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
I can not be sure the cause but I am sure of the effect. To be honest...assaults can do it too. They will get hit a bit more but a noticeable amount of bullets will miss the assault. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Give scouts the same hitbox as assaults. Nuff SaidGäó |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:I can not be sure the cause but I am sure of the effect. To be honest...assaults can do it too. They will get hit a bit more but a noticeable amount of bullets will miss the assault.
its every suit u just notice how ridiculous it is with the scouts due to their speed |
Scrubby McScrubscrub
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Drake Gro'Dar wrote:Im a heavy so scouts can run circles around me but most of the time I win because I lead my shots, nothing more satisfying then watching a scout jump into the stream of death that my HMG spits out lol. But I'll agree scouts do move fast it could be toned down just alittle and let them retain their edge in battle
Yeah, seriously, this. I kill tons of scouts all the time by leading shots as assault, you just have to learn what their strafing speed is then adjust for it. |
FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Abron Garr wrote:Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Actually, months ago in the beta they were still tweaking turn speed, and I believe the heavy was further reduced at some point. It's always been a tactic to get in close and strafe faster than they can turn, it's the very reason the classes have different turn speeds and limits.
If your class has more slots for tank, more base tank, AND you can turn as fast as a scout can strafe, please tell me what advantage a scout has over assault/logi at that point?
It wont even matter if they strafe or not, you have equal or greater damage and more tank so ignoring skill your class is now imbalanced vs scout. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:Abron Garr wrote:Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Actually, months ago in the beta they were still tweaking turn speed, and I believe the heavy was further reduced at some point. It's always been a tactic to get in close and strafe faster than they can turn, it's the very reason the classes have different turn speeds and limits. If your class has more slots for tank, more base tank, AND you can turn as fast as a scout can strafe, please tell me what advantage a scout has over assault/logi at that point? It wont even matter if they strafe or not, you have equal or greater damage and more tank so ignoring skill your class is now imbalanced vs scout.
Being smaller targets that still run faster |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:Abron Garr wrote:Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Actually, months ago in the beta they were still tweaking turn speed, and I believe the heavy was further reduced at some point. It's always been a tactic to get in close and strafe faster than they can turn, it's the very reason the classes have different turn speeds and limits. If your class has more slots for tank, more base tank, AND you can turn as fast as a scout can strafe, please tell me what advantage a scout has over assault/logi at that point? It wont even matter if they strafe or not, you have equal or greater damage and more tank so ignoring skill your class is now imbalanced vs scout.
Because you still have to aim. Having a turning speed increase doesn't guarantee you'd hit anyone, just the potential. Scouts would still be the fastest sprinters and strafers. Scout would still take longer to appear on the minimap, making assassinations their forte'. I'm not asking for scouts to have the same strafing speed as an Assault, they should still be higher, I'm just asking that it either be turned down a couple points or our turn speed needs to be increased. |
Bo Tracta
Celtic Anarchy
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 18:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
If there was proper inertia on player movement then twitch strafing might not be such a problem, because when suddenly trying to go in the opposite direction the player would virtually stop for a split second, giving you a chance to get a few decent shots in.
Obviously scouts would still be less affected by this than other classes, but it might be enough to lessen their CQC advantage a bit and keep them moving straight around their opponent and moving from cover to cover, like they should be.
BTW it's not just scouts that are capable of twitch-strafing, all the suits (apart from heavies probably) can move side-to-side erratically to avoid bullets, I've done it with a type-1 logi.
Another idea is to perhaps have a variant of the repair gun that can significantly slow down the enemy that it locks on to. It would obviously be very risky for the player using it, but if you had a heavy with you it could be excellent for taking down those pesky strafers. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
393
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 18:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:The speed of the scout suit is fine, but the character model and hit box on the scout is too small. Damage doesn't always register against them. Anybody that denies this is clearly abusing the class.
found in this thread here |
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