DUST Search - Sigh...Scout Suits.

mikegunnz wrote:

Abron Garr wrote:

mikegunnz wrote:

Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless.

What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob.

Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout.

Not sure what you mean. I use mostly assault, and have no prob turning to keep up with a scouts strafe speed.
What's your controller sensitivity set to? Perhaps turn it up? Not trying to troll, being serious.
The problem I run into is scouts being able to literally just hit left, right, left, right repeatedly on the left stick, and just strafe right through a stream of bullets without anything registering.


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Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 00:09:00 - [1] - Quote I don't care what anyone says, the strafing speed of higher level scout suits is over the top. .6 might not seem like much of a difference, but in practice it certainly is. The sprint and straight line speed is fine, but the lateral strafing speed needs to be looked at. I know they have reduced fitting space. I know they're tender if they stand still, but only a terrible scout is actually going to stand still. In my Dragonfly suit I can outrun grenades and run circles around everyone with an SMG or AR until they're dead. There's no way they're going to kill me unless I get caught up in terrain or they bring three other people, and even then, I'll kill two of them before I go down. It's so bad I can literally unload an entire clip into someone and continue strafing while I reload and kill off his friends, no need to even switch weapons. I don't like to call for nerfs and I rarely even sign on to them, but with this build, there's really no reason to spec into anything but scout. If it means giving scout an armor and shield boost to compensate for a lowering of strafing speed, then so be it. This thread is going to generate a ton of hate but so be it, Scout is over the top.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 00:14:00 - [2] - Quote Bo Tracta wrote: If there was a weapon that could slow enemies down it would be great. I'd give my left nut for a Stasis web.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 00:59:00 - [3] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Garr, it's just the fact everyone else sucks. Scouts are lol funny when you have an assault SMG. They just fall down dead. If there is a problem I agree with Crimson. Bring others up instead of bringing the scout down. As much as I'd like to take credit for being better than most, I can't really do that. I think I'm an upper mid-level player so it's not me being better. I'm fine with being able to do certain things in a scout suit better than the other suits, but I just feel that the strafing is a tad too high. It should be the highest strafing suit, but right now I think it's too much.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 12:42:00 - [4] - Quote Icedslayer wrote: I hate to burst your bubble but Scouts aren't invincible. Hit detection along with lag and low/choppy Fps makes them seem invincible, but among all that there are many things that will take scouts out very easily, Any Anti-infantry grenade, Mass drivers, Shotguns(scare me the most cause of the instant death), Charged Sniper rifle, Forge gun, and if your a good shot the scrambler pistol (takes only a hand full of shots). Should the Strafe speed be nerfed, i don't personally think so. I think if you nerf 1 of the 2 critical aspects of being a Scout (Speed and fast shield recharge) your basically turning it into a weak Assault suite. The counter to the mass driver is just to get in the wielder's face, which also happens to be the Scout's best fighting range. Shotguns, Sniper rifles and even pistol deaths require to you either be sloppy or get hung up on terrain. If it's a 1v1 I'll know when he throws a grenade and where it lands. I'll be able to outrun it. If he cooks it, that's at least two or three seconds of him not shooting which is plenty of time to kill someone with an SMG. Look, I know scouts are not invincible, far from it, but currently they are stepping over the role that Assault was intended to play with better CQC, and even mid to low range combat capabilities. That's my only concern. I want scout to be able to move and strafe faster than the other suits; I'm just asking for it to be toned down a little. Anyone in Eve who PvPs in frigs and cruisers knows all about keeping your transversal up when approaching or running from a target. Lateral movements and fast orbits overload the tracking of the enemy's guns and you're either unscathed or you take very little damage. If you move in straight lines or stop then you're dead. The same principle works in Dust for Assault and Scout. This is why snipers are no problem, even if there are 10 of them. Currently, the strafing speed of the scout suit is faster than the turn speed of everyone else. I personally think is ridiculous. I can understand the lower turn speed for heavies to compensate for their weapon and heavy armor. but Assault and even logistics should not have a lower turn speed, or at least not a turn speed lower than a Scout can strafe. Either lower the scout strafe speed to say, 5.4, or you have to increase the turn speed of everyone to compensate.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 13:47:00 - [5] - Quote Sake Monster wrote: Not a good counter against my Mass Driver, Abron. I'll kill us both if you get too close to me and my Mass Driver, and if I'm still at full health I'll kill the scout and walk away with only a damaged logi suit. Many a scout have made that mistake, thinking closer is safer. I understand the frustration when the hit detection isn't working well, but I don't think scouts need any nerfing, they die just fine. There's a delay on the mass driver grenade going off if it's too close to the user. I can honestly say I've never been killed by a mass driver by being too close. That's with any suit though. I've almost always dropped the mass driver with zero damage done to me. I drop people with my SMG much faster than they can kill me with one. As far as dictating range, that's not always possible. and the argument that they are frigates and everyone else is a Cruiser/BS would apply if we had stasis webs and scramblers to shut down their movement, or neuts to cap them out.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 15:46:00 - [6] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless. What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob. Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 16:16:00 - [7] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Abron Garr wrote: mikegunnz wrote: Nerfing the scout suit is NOT the answer. Like others have said, it has high speed but LOW HP. If you nerf the speed it will make it completely useless. What needs to be done to balance the scout, is the improvement of the hit detection/frame rate. Improving this alone will fix the prob. Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Not sure what you mean. I use mostly assault, and have no prob turning to keep up with a scouts strafe speed. What's your controller sensitivity set to? Perhaps turn it up? Not trying to troll, being serious. The problem I run into is scouts being able to literally just hit left, right, left, right repeatedly on the left stick, and just strafe right through a stream of bullets without anything registering. I turned every sensitivity to 100 just in case one setting was overriding the others. That's exactly how I strafe. Left, right, randomly back and forth while keeping on the target. It takes multiple enemies or lucky shots to bring me down in the scout suit as long as I have open space.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.24 17:58:00 - [8] - Quote FatalFlaw V1 wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Actually, the turn rate of the Assault and Logistics needs to be the same speed as the scout strafing speed. NO suit should be able to strafe faster than a suit can turn. Not only does it make zero sense, it ruins game play for everyone but the scout. Actually, months ago in the beta they were still tweaking turn speed, and I believe the heavy was further reduced at some point. It's always been a tactic to get in close and strafe faster than they can turn, it's the very reason the classes have different turn speeds and limits. If your class has more slots for tank, more base tank, AND you can turn as fast as a scout can strafe, please tell me what advantage a scout has over assault/logi at that point? It wont even matter if they strafe or not, you have equal or greater damage and more tank so ignoring skill your class is now imbalanced vs scout. Because you still have to aim. Having a turning speed increase doesn't guarantee you'd hit anyone, just the potential. Scouts would still be the fastest sprinters and strafers. Scout would still take longer to appear on the minimap, making assassinations their forte'. I'm not asking for scouts to have the same strafing speed as an Assault, they should still be higher, I'm just asking that it either be turned down a couple points or our turn speed needs to be increased.