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Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 07:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
As much as I am all in favor of the higher prices, the rewards are just slightly to low. I built a fit on the standard Scout type 1 dropsuit, that has a militia shield extender, standard assault rifle, standard scrambler pistol, standard AV grenade, standard nanohive, and militia cardiac regulator. Costs me 25k ISK per use.
That price is fine, perfectly reasonable in my eyes. However, I went 12/5 in a game of ambush, and only earned enough to buy 4 more. I think the rewards need to be raised just -slightly-, or the prices need to be dropped just -slightly-. |
Grille Tuna
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.23 07:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
or you'll have to save your fitting for when it REALLY matters since your clone is immortal. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2012.08.23 07:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree that advanced and prototype suits should be situational, and should be a large investment, but I'm saying I cant even afford to use half standard half militia dropsuits in a game with a nearly 2/1 KDR. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.08.23 08:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Players should be able to use full standard equipment and still manage to make a profit. The way things are, you can't really profit even if half the stuff you equip on your standard dropsuit are still militia. |
Song Soulfire
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2012.08.23 08:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Players should be able to use full standard equipment and still manage to make a profit. The way things are, you can't really profit even if half the stuff you equip on your standard dropsuit are still militia.
exactly... given the death rate players IMHO should be able to lose quite a few type 1 suits before they start to see an income loss.
Militia suits should not be the standard, and certainly IMHO not full militia fittings ... though i have seen a thread where a DEV(?) was saying that anything other then [STARTER] fits may get changed to BPC's....
Its hard to see how this game is meant to play, on the one hand it wants to be a shooter with RPG elements, and on the other hand it thinks its EVE.
I can't place DUST as EVE sorry, I don't get to run around in my drop suit exploring places, I don't get to jump to safety if stuffs turns sour. Losses are tied into being a Merc, and Merc's have less leeway with their fits then even a frigate.
Cut some slack for the poor schlebs CCP, unless your game plan is to alienate everyone that isnt tied to a super Alliance. I can't see how contracts would work under that scenario. |
dust badger
BetaMax.
283
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 08:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
i dont know i have been using mainly militia stuff and have been upgrading my skills and saving my iskl until i can use advanced suits and then i will waste all 4 mil isk on shiny fits for important corp games,
And I would check your assets, see how much isk you have lying there, I have another 6 mil in stuff waiting to be sold and then some officer stuff that will be worth something as well |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 09:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
dust badger wrote:i dont know i have been using mainly militia stuff and have been upgrading my skills and saving my iskl until i can use advanced suits and then i will waste all 4 mil isk on shiny fits for important corp games,
And I would check your assets, see how much isk you have lying there, I have another 6 mil in stuff waiting to be sold and then some officer stuff that will be worth something as well I don't have a problem with people using militia suits if they want to save up, but I shouldn't play a game where I get 12 kills, die 5 times (4 of which were BPC suits, 1 was a starter) and come out about 20,000 ISK negative. |
BlacMage
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2012.08.23 09:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have been playing this build since it came out and just now have enough ISK and skills to afford a BPC logistics build... And I cannot dare bring it out as at 52K a pop that is more than I make a match. I agree that there should be risk and reward and that the EVE driven market and contracts may make ALL of my complaint obsolete, but a game that takes a week of play time to use level one gear seems way too anti-new player. And a Free To Play is going to need a lot of new players... |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 09:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Prices were supposed to rise due to the ISK value in Dust being far higher than it is in EVE, but match rewards were supposed to be increased to compensate. All I've noticed, is prices are up, and payouts are WAY down. |
dust badger
BetaMax.
283
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Posted - 2012.08.23 09:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
another thing is that the reward matches what gear people are using in game, so if you slay a full team of proto suits then you will get a lot more isk than killing a team in militia gear, so as people upgrade their stuff the rewards should go up too, I know this is a bit of a vicious circle but we should see it increase. If people are struggling, my advice would be to stay in militia gear and upgrade your skills that give bonuses like more weapon damage and more shield HPs rather than upgrading your Suits, and if you do have to buy upgrades I would buy a better gun, as the best defence is a good offence :) And final point, donGÇÖt suicide too quick, I often play as a logi bro, and soooooooooo many times I am on my way to come heal someone and then they suicide, sometimes takes a few secs to get to you as we have to kill the guy that popped you, so when you think you are going to suicide, donGÇÖt, wait 5 more secs, this could save your suit and your isk
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Tobaml
5
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Posted - 2012.08.23 14:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
The earnings are far too less. I had a 15/1 KDR but I earned just 40000 SP and 60000 ISK. Before the build I would earn at least four times this. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
dust badger wrote:#1 another thing is that the reward matches what gear people are using in game, so if you slay a full team of proto suits then you will get a lot more isk than killing a team in militia gear, so as people upgrade their stuff the rewards should go up too, I know this is a bit of a vicious circle but we should see it increase.
#2 If people are struggling, my advice would be to stay in militia gear and upgrade your skills that give bonuses like more weapon damage and more shield HPs rather than upgrading your Suits, and if you do have to buy upgrades I would buy a better gun, as the best defence is a good offence :)
#3 And final point, donGÇÖt suicide too quick, I often play as a logi bro, and soooooooooo many times I am on my way to come heal someone and then they suicide, sometimes takes a few secs to get to you as we have to kill the guy that popped you, so when you think you are going to suicide, donGÇÖt, wait 5 more secs, this could save your suit and your isk
I numbered your paragraphs for response clarity.
#1 This is an issue because matchmaking is made to place newbies vs newbies and veterans vs veterans, so rewards will never really go "up" they'll just match your current ISK consumption level. The problem with that, is if you're making next to nothing, it's hard get better gear, and get matched against those players with a higher price tag on their head (figuratively).
#2 A major problem with this, is that it takes longer to earn enough SP for a good skill, that it does to earn the ISK needed for the skill books. They need to make skilling rely more heavily on passive point gain, so that newbie players are able to enter the world without grinding two or three hours a day.
#3 Very few people are a LogiBro, and I have only ever been revived once, in the nearly two months I've been in beta. I often sit on my mic, yelling at the two logistics guys standing next to me "Hey, revive me........ Dude revive me...... Come on guys I'm RIGHT HERE" and I proceed to suicide and re-spawn. |
Smokey Killer51
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.08.23 16:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Basically is you either save for dropsuites or use crap suites and save for vehicles... should be able to buy dropsuites and still afford vehicles after a few games |
Smokey Killer51
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.08.23 16:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adding to what i just posted . I can buy and fit a decent frigate on eve for less then some of these dropsuites cost...and definatly less then the dropships cost. dropship should be less than half of the cost of a frigate |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 16:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: #3 Very few people are a LogiBro, and I have only ever been revived once, in the nearly two months I've been in beta. I often sit on my mic, yelling at the two logistics guys standing next to me "Hey, revive me........ Dude revive me...... Come on guys I'm RIGHT HERE" and I proceed to suicide and re-spawn.
I have nanites on every Logistics suit I play which mostly eats up one of two slots as I right now always use Militia Suits. IF you want to be revived you should consider NOT to run straight to a place that is out of cover, surrounded by enemies or covered by snipers. As you might have noticed Logi Suits are still a bit squishy and waving the magic green wand doesn't kill all the bad guys.. it just revives.
Considering the rise in prices I wonder though if there would be a rise in ISK income when you use higher class equipment? Otherwise it is a hard bargain to load out a nanoinjector that is not militia.
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Khun-Al
135
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Posted - 2012.08.23 16:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Using better eqipment increases the costs and not more. I use a advanced scout suit and get just 40000-150000 ISK. But as i have noticed increase Hacks, preventing Hacks, repairing teammates and other doings for the team the income. Hope that helps. |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2012.08.23 17:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Khun-Al wrote:Using better eqipment increases the costs and not more. I use a advanced scout suit and get just 40000-150000 ISK. But as i have noticed increase Hacks, preventing Hacks, repairing teammates and other doings for the team the income. Hope that helps.
Yeah it seems to be that way. I just wonder if it would be a nice touch to get a little increase if you use your expensive gear successfully. Something like a ISK earned=WP earnedx100x1.{avg. Metalevel of all used equip} |
Khulam Alkon
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.08.23 18:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
guys, keep in mind pricing is going to change regardless as things continue, and once EVE integration starts getting tested we'll definately see a change in prices as EVE's actual economy comes into play... |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 19:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seran Jinkar wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: #3 Very few people are a LogiBro, and I have only ever been revived once, in the nearly two months I've been in beta. I often sit on my mic, yelling at the two logistics guys standing next to me "Hey, revive me........ Dude revive me...... Come on guys I'm RIGHT HERE" and I proceed to suicide and re-spawn.
I have nanites on every Logistics suit I play which mostly eats up one of two slots as I right now always use Militia Suits. IF you want to be revived you should consider NOT to run straight to a place that is out of cover, surrounded by enemies or covered by snipers. As you might have noticed Logi Suits are still a bit squishy and waving the magic green wand doesn't kill all the bad guys.. it just revives. Considering the rise in prices I wonder though if there would be a rise in ISK income when you use higher class equipment? Otherwise it is a hard bargain to load out a nanoinjector that is not militia. I think you misunderstand, when I say the two logistics guys standing next to me, I literally mean RIGHT next to me, as in so close they step over me a few times. |
Lau Hunter
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.08.23 20:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
dust badger wrote:another thing is that the reward matches what gear people are using in game, so if you slay a full team of proto suits then you will get a lot more isk than killing a team in militia gear, so as people upgrade their stuff the rewards should go up too, I know this is a bit of a vicious circle but we should see it increase. If people are struggling, my advice would be to stay in militia gear and upgrade your skills that give bonuses like more weapon damage and more shield HPs rather than upgrading your Suits, and if you do have to buy upgrades I would buy a better gun, as the best defence is a good offence :) And final point, donGÇÖt suicide too quick, I often play as a logi bro, and soooooooooo many times I am on my way to come heal someone and then they suicide, sometimes takes a few secs to get to you as we have to kill the guy that popped you, so when you think you are going to suicide, donGÇÖt, wait 5 more secs, this could save your suit and your isk
Noob Question: Is there anyway to tell if a Medic is near your body? It says "A message has been sent to a nearby Logistic" but I don't know how close is "nearby" and if they even have a possibility of getting to me. It would be nice if there was a Medic indicator on the mini map, or is there and i'm just missing it? |
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XBARTX99
WarRavens
11
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Posted - 2012.08.23 20:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
i think prices are perfect once we cant sell salvage back to game for money i have gotten alot of loot i cant use from tanks and prototype armor but once we can sell this stuff it will be much easyer for them to balence |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
The problem right now is that we can't tell whether the prices are any good because the entire economy is artificial. While I think the artificial prices should be lowered or rewards should be increased so we're all testing a wider variety of equipment, the tweaking is going to have to be done mostly after the market opens up to EVE and DUST player trading. That's when we're really going to find out just how much people end up using the all-militia outfits and whether things need to be tweaked so people use the more advanced gear more often.
Remember that any comments about the cost of things (other than skill books) are not going to be long-term fixes because those aren't going to be the costs when it's all getting produced by player activity. Ideally, the same will be true of rewards: you'll be getting paid by EVE players for the contracts you take. At least, this is my understanding.
So yes, please tweak prices/rewards so we can test more equipment. Please! |
Trenchfoot321
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.08.24 08:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm actually rather surprised that no one has mentioned this, but what CCP is obviously steering us towards is the Aurum monetary system. In the old builds (via Aurum in the merc pack), I was able to save up tons of money simply by using the Aurum on good suits and good weapons. But since Aurum is from real world money, this means that once again a Free To Play game is pushing for people to spend money on the game (ooo boy, who saw that coming?). I like this game, it looks cool even from the perspective of a non-Eve player. But I don't want to have to start up an Eve account just to get a trade ship and work the markets for the cash I'd need to hopefully get to use my nice equipment every round. And also, I don't want to have to be sinking large amounts of US Dollars into a F2P game just so I can stand toe to toe with everyone who has access to their corporation's vast coffers. |
Athelar Loraiel
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.08.24 09:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Can we send ISK from test server account to dust? |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 10:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Song Soulfire wrote:though i have seen a thread where a DEV(?) was saying that anything other then [STARTER] fits may get changed to BPC's....
I think this is how it should be. Militia gear has the advantage of requiring no skills. It shouldn't be unlimited also.
Starter builds are like rookie frigates in EVE--they're there so you always have a ship so you can technically play, even if it sucks.
I suck at combat in this game, but I haven't really had a problem with money. I can even afford an occasional dropship. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.08.24 13:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
IIRC they said prices would be hiked, but so would rewards, so it would more or less balance out.
Well, the prices certainly hiked, about as much as a day of Zimbabwean inflation. If not more. But the rewards did not. If anything they were lowered as well... |
Gilbatron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
81
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Posted - 2012.08.24 13:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
as long as prices stay 6 figures i can probably support a month of dust with an hour of eve |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.08.25 13:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gilbatron wrote:as long as prices stay 6 figures i can probably support a month of dust with an hour of eve
Only if we are allowed to transfer isk between the two.
If not, and the market is open, there is nothing wrong in selling an assault rifle for half a billion to your EVE toon, is there? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.08.29 06:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:Gilbatron wrote:as long as prices stay 6 figures i can probably support a month of dust with an hour of eve Only if we are allowed to transfer isk between the two. If not, and the market is open, there is nothing wrong in selling an assault rifle for half a billion to your EVE toon, is there?
I would be surprised if you couldn't since the 2 games will eventually be linked economically. |
Patches The Hyena
204
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 08:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP is going to have to balance balance prices and rewards regardless of planned EVE and Dust integration. When Dust launches the manufacturing of goods by EVE players won't have started up, or at least not reached a high enough supply. So we're going to wind up in a high demand low supply scenario causing a price spike if CCP doesn't intervene. So regardless of future plans income vs expense needs balanced now so Dust has a smooth launch. |
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dust badger
BetaMax.
283
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Posted - 2012.08.29 09:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Seran Jinkar wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: #3 Very few people are a LogiBro, and I have only ever been revived once, in the nearly two months I've been in beta. I often sit on my mic, yelling at the two logistics guys standing next to me "Hey, revive me........ Dude revive me...... Come on guys I'm RIGHT HERE" and I proceed to suicide and re-spawn.
I have nanites on every Logistics suit I play which mostly eats up one of two slots as I right now always use Militia Suits. IF you want to be revived you should consider NOT to run straight to a place that is out of cover, surrounded by enemies or covered by snipers. As you might have noticed Logi Suits are still a bit squishy and waving the magic green wand doesn't kill all the bad guys.. it just revives. Considering the rise in prices I wonder though if there would be a rise in ISK income when you use higher class equipment? Otherwise it is a hard bargain to load out a nanoinjector that is not militia. I think you misunderstand, when I say the two logistics guys standing next to me, I literally mean RIGHT next to me, as in so close they step over me a few times.
A little off topic but i think people don't realise this. the reviving system is bugged at the moment as you need to heal the area where the person died and not where the body is, if you are standing still and get shot you need to revive the feet as this is the area where he died and if they die on a hill,steps or a slope, then its really hard to heal them unless you saw them die and know where they got killed, as the body will slide down but the "hitbox" for reviving stays where you got shot |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2012.08.29 09:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
"A little off topic but i think people don't realise this. the reviving system is bugged at the moment as you need to heal the area where the person died and not where the body is, if you are standing still and get shot you need to revive the feet as this is the area where he died and if they die on a hill,steps or a slope, then its really hard to heal them unless you saw them die and know where they got killed, as the body will slide down but the "hitbox" for reviving stays where you got shot"
You got to be standing right where the little x on the syringe is on the radar.
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Dundalk
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.02 16:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
It is not mercantile to spend more than you make in a match.
Other FPS's use the leveling-carrot differently: GÇó BF you gain access to equipment based on what you use, and then are encouraged to keep playing for medals. GÇó COD you are given incentives to reset your equipment access (and thus the carrot). This seems to be fairly effective in maintaining a hardcore following. GÇó Halo upgrades are purely cosmetic (status symbol). GÇó Eve the skill system de-incentivizes grinding, and the cost is not prohibitive, because there are plenty of ways to make money without the constant loss of ships/equipment.
Obviously GÇ£Dust 514 is not x!!!GÇ¥, however Dust does not exist in a void, and players will compare it to other titles - including how much weapons/equipment they feel they should be getting access to after a given playtime investment. Because, unlike other games, Dust does not grant permanent access to new weapons/equipment, GÇÿFree-to-PlayersGÇÖ are likely to burn out on the Militia gear, and GÇÿPay-to-playersGÇÖ will skill-grind, buy nice equipment, and then burn out.
I could be wrong - I guess games like Farmville continue to net a huge profit from people who are willing to pay for things over and over again. If that sort of model works here - than presumably Dust will eventually be composed primarily of people willing to blow their money or who are supported by EvE characters.
I could be wrong - I guess games like Farmville continue to net a huge profit from people who are willing to pay for things over and over again. If that sort of model works here - than presumably Dust will eventually be primarily composed of people willing to blow their money or who are supported by EvE characters.
I think itGÇÖs a valid point that once EvE and Dust Markets are connected costs may balance themselves out - but IGÇÖm not sure why the controlled costs are currently so high - unless this an experiment to see how many people go for Aurum. Or maybe this is another instance where CCP wants to force all players into established corporations (like they do in EVE). In any case CCP is still going to be able to steer the market with NPC prices. |
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