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Arnold Sphinx
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people running around with scout suits and submachine guns. For good reason. The scout suit has TERRIBLE hit detection and way to much dps and range for a sidearm. The smg was good last build, as was the assault rifle. Now, smg's are the new assault rifle and scouts have become the assaults. I can understand if a bunch of frigates take down a battlecruiser, but when 5 frigs are able to compete equally with 5 battlecruisers, there's a problem. I'm both a victim and a culprit of this exploit, so I know what I'm talking about. A recon suit with a sidearm should not be able to take down assault suits with light assault rifles at medium range. |
Ulf Thunderkick
24
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arnold Sphinx wrote:There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people running around with scout suits and submachine guns. For good reason. The scout suit has TERRIBLE hit detection and way to much dps and range for a sidearm. The smg was good last build, as was the assault rifle. Now, smg's are the new assault rifle and scouts have become the assaults. I can understand if a bunch of frigates take down a battlecruiser, but when 5 frigs are able to compete equally with 5 battlecruisers, there's a problem. I'm both a victim and a culprit of this exploit, so I know what I'm talking about. A recon suit with a sidearm should not be able to take down assault suits with light assault rifles at medium range.
+1
I have run into so many scenarios where I have been sniping scout suits and hit them, only to do no damage. |
Character420
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
this explains a lot, I was getting my butt handed to me repeatedly by scouts running around with SMG's regardless of what suit I was using and not to mention I had a horrible time getting my hits to count on them. Maybe I need to do that and equal up some odds! lol |
Otto Golaso
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
18
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
It seems to me that hit detection has taken a turn for the worse on all suits in this build. I just dropped three grenades at peoples feet. Only one registered any damage at all. I also hit an assault suit with three point-blank shotgun blasts and didn't register a point of damage. He was standing still, not looking at me and I fired from 2 meters away into his back three times. Nothing happened except he turned around and killed me in one shot ... |
Pombe Geek
Red Star.
44
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
My favorite is to run with SMG's as both primary and secondary in my scout suit! |
Ulf Thunderkick
24
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pombe Geek wrote:My favorite is to run with SMG's as both primary and secondary in my scout suit!
I hate you.
But seriously, the hit detection needs to be sorted out soon. I was scout hunting in my last round, came up behind a sniper with an assault rifle, emptied a magazine at him and only had him deep into armour. Granted, not all of my shots hit, but the majority did. |
Antonius Dacinci
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
65
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pfft scout go splat when I shoot with shotgun and chaingun, aim about 1 foot infront of where they are going you hit fine. |
FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
76
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
People have been complaining about scouts being difficult to hit since before the signature radius attributes were even listed as being a game mechanic. Hit detection seems fairly good to me. If they are moving too fast for you to keep accurate aim on them then sounds like they are playing their class well.
If the speed or sig tanking is nerfed then scout is going to need a shield HP buff to retain some survivability, otherwise might as well play assault. |
Ulf Thunderkick
24
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Posted - 2012.08.21 22:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:People have been complaining about scouts being difficult to hit since before the signature radius attributes were even listed as being a game mechanic. Hit detection seems fairly good to me. If they are moving too fast for you to keep accurate aim on them then sounds like they are playing their class well.
If the speed or sig tanking is nerfed then scout is going to need a shield HP buff to retain some survivability, otherwise might as well play assault.
It is not a question of people playing the class correctly...
There have been several reports on this board, from multiple setups, claiming to be hitting scouts and them incurring no, or minimal damage. The best example I saw of this was shooting a stationary scout, while stationary, in the back at point blank range with a fully charged sniper rifle. I did this three times, with no damage suffered by the target. On top of this, I can attest to hitting snipers several times, watching their shields flare and them taking no damage, or showing that they noticed the hit.
Even when running from other people who have snuck up on my sniping position, I have noticed I am surviving situations I should have no chance in. During an ambush map, three people from the other team either crept up on me or spawned nearby and subsequently attempted to kill me. I took my best chance and sprinted for a different set of cover to make an escape. At one point I ran in a straight line away from them, over open ground with them firing on me and took minimal amounts of damage. This makes not sense, and even if they were terrible at aiming, I should have at least almost died - when in fact, I walking away with just my shields gone.
I really wish people would stop naysaying this: It is a problem, stating it isn't and trying to write it off as people just whining is counter productive to the point of a beta. |
Obama DAT
Doomheim
389
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Posted - 2012.08.22 00:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm a scout and I play hit and run style warfare. It's not that your hit detection is off it's that my sprint speed is 8.0 plus with enhancments. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. |
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Daken Cydonia
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.08.22 00:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ulf Thunderkick wrote:
+1
I have run into so many scenarios where I have been sniping scout suits and hit them, only to do no damage.
This, constantly. You even see the "flicker" of their shields when you hit them, but no damage. Charge sniper rifle with damage mods shouldn't be shrugged off so easily. |
Obama DAT
Doomheim
389
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Posted - 2012.08.22 00:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
That's odd for as a scout most of my deaths come from militia sniper rifles. |
Stealth Reborn
13
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Posted - 2012.08.22 01:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Speaking of SMG's...I had full health, full shield, the guy literally put one bullet into me with the SMG and I died, really? |
Ulf Thunderkick
24
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Posted - 2012.08.22 01:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Obama DAT wrote:I'm a scout and I play hit and run style warfare. It's not that your hit detection is off it's that my sprint speed is 8.0 plus with enhancments. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
If that is the case, then sprint speed is somehow factoring into shooting stationary targets. |
Timothy Reaper
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
321
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Posted - 2012.08.22 05:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ulf Thunderkick wrote:I really wish people would stop naysaying this: It is a problem, stating it isn't and trying to write it off as people just whining is counter productive to the point of a beta. Sadly, there are a lot whiners, and they can make it difficult to take real problems seriously. I used to believe it just people whining, but the new build has shown that at least some of these complaints are valid. There have been times when I have someone in the scope of my sniper rifle (their stats showing on the screen), I take the shot, their shields flare, aaaaaand nothing. Even if it wasn't me they obviously got hit by something, but no damage registers. I suppose it could be friendly fire, but I didn't notice any of their teammates nearby.
Edit: It not just scouts. |
DeeJay One
BetaMax.
9
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Posted - 2012.08.22 06:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Timothy Reaper wrote: Sadly, there are a lot whiners, and they can make it difficult real problems seriously. I used to believe it just people whining, but the new build has shown that at least some of these complaints are valid. There have been times when I have someone in the scope of my sniper rifle (their stats showing on the screen), I take the shot, their shields flare, aaaaaand nothing. Even if it wasn't me they obviously got hit by something, but no damage registers. I suppose it could be friendly fire, but I didn't notice any of their teammates nearby.
Edit: It not just scouts.
Yup, sometimes I manage to empty almost an entire shotgun clip point blank into an AR/Scout/Logi an no hits register...
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Jedd Brown
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.08.22 07:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sometimes you are simply out of range but I noticed this too. Hit detection is broken or I don't understand how it's work. |
Daemash Drak'sis
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.08.22 07:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Stealth Reborn wrote:Speaking of SMG's...I had full health, full shield, the guy literally put one bullet into me with the SMG and I died, really?
Usually when that happens it's not the SMG that got you, it's the Sniper on the hill way out in the distance. |
Song Soulfire
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2012.08.22 11:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Obama DAT wrote:I'm a scout and I play hit and run style warfare. It's not that your hit detection is off it's that my sprint speed is 8.0 plus with enhancments. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
I also play hit and run scout, and i've found that the best way to bork hit detection is judicious use of sprint.
anyways, to add to the hit detection commentry, here's my little story :)
i play a shotgun/SMG scout fitting, lots of nice close range damage. With the militia SG, one hit is enough to kill a scout, 1-2 direct hits for an assault, and around 4 hits for a Heavy suit.
My favorite tactic during an Ambush map, is to range out wide of my teamies, in an attempt to flank the other team.
This nets me some nice kills, as the scout suit can get there fast, and get out again faster.
So over the course of an afternoon, I developed some friendly rivalries with a few other players, some times i was on their team and as i have a Remote Repair in my equipment slot, I am happy to keep them alive... NATURALLY this changes when you are on different teams!!!!!
So aaany ways... when I'm not jumping over railings and aiming a shotgun at some poor SoB's head, as I come screaming back to earth, I can usually be found trying to sneak up on said same plebs ass.. oop i mean Kitten.
And this is where the hit detection comes into it.... a shotgun at close/point blank range is a shield and armor shredding doom monger.
Now as used as i am to this notion, you might imagine the consternation, the confusion, my poor battered Merc feels, when upon emptying the entire clip of an Assault Shot Gun at well nigh on point blank range (that would be 8 rounds from a few metres away) into a Heavies damn slow ass ...oops i mean: Heavies Kitten slow Kitten, well you can imagine the surprise, when Not a single Round manages to find its way into his spleen, hellish!! And as that Heavy Suit Rockin' Hill Billy turned ....slowly... to watch me hurriedly reload whilst doing the Scout's Handbook Dance of Doomed Hit Detection, well you can imagine that i'd have settled for less then his spleen, lets say .... well.. ANY PART OF HIM AT ALL REALLY!!!...
Now at which point, whilst said same heavy unloaded a couple lazy rounds from HIS shotgun into my head completely ignoring my uber leet dancing skillz, you might take it upon yourself to imagine the possible lack of thought my brains experienced whilst traveling at unseemly speeds without the protection of a helmet... ... ... ... Currently Hit detection is being calculated in real time by 1 million monkeys.
story Based upon Actual Events!!! |
OG DonHel
65
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Posted - 2012.08.22 11:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Obama DAT wrote:That's odd for as a scout most of my deaths come from militia sniper rifles.
RIGHT! Scout is not invincible, people want to be able to just point fire and kill with out really trying.. I run in scouts and in assaults. and my scout DOES die quite often lol. Snipers take me out, grenades take me out, HMG has even taken me out when I get cornered... like I said people expecting to point n spray and get the kill... this isnt halo |
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Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.08.22 13:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
I really don't know what you guys are talking about anymore. Aside from a handful of times where the hit detection clearly goes wonky (ie. unloading a full clip into a near death heavy at point blank range with no effect), I have had minimal problems hitting anyone, including the legions of scouts.
Also, since I'm still in Militia gear, I've been playing around with weapons outside of my usual SMG/Swarm Launcher combo. The militia assault rifle is downright beastly with the weaponry skill maxed out; the Toxin SMG just can't compete until I drop enough points into sidearm range and SMG damage. (Still great for cqc spray and pray, though.)
Scouts are harder to hit by design. They go down quick when you get 'em, especially with this build's extended shield recharge delay. |
Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
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Posted - 2012.08.22 13:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
got to admit its really bad.
As a light I almost killed some one in an assault suit with a pistol and they had the high ground, and this moment I have like virtually none of my skills leveled. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
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Posted - 2012.08.22 15:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ulf Thunderkick wrote:Pombe Geek wrote:My favorite is to run with SMG's as both primary and secondary in my scout suit! I hate you. But seriously, the hit detection needs to be sorted out soon. I was scout hunting in my last round, came up behind a sniper with an assault rifle, emptied a magazine at him and only had him deep into armour. Granted, not all of my shots hit, but the majority did.
the thing is at point blank range (say 1-4 meters) you should not miss sh*t! so the fact that even some of your rounds didn't register is an issue in my book. I know, cause I have had the same thing happen to me with scouts, assaults, and heavies. By my calculations, and even taking into consideration the accuracy rating of a weapon as standard SMG does roughly 804 points per magazine, while a standard AR (assault rifle) does 1008. Now when you compare it to the other weapons, ROF is the game changer in this build since CCP over NERFED the breach AR and SMG!
SO CCP, PLZ fix the hit detection, and if you want to maintain the damage of the breach weapons (especially the SMG and AR) than give a boost to the ROF to help balance it out so when hit detection IS AN ISSUE, at least there can be some form of compensation.
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Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
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Posted - 2012.08.22 16:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Obama DAT wrote:I'm a scout and I play hit and run style warfare. It's not that your hit detection is off it's that my sprint speed is 8.0 plus with enhancments. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
EVEN if you are moving that fast, when you take into consideration range and the supposed speed of the round exiting the weapon, there is no way in f*cking hell I should have to lead someone out a foot or more at ranges of 1 meter to even 60 or 75 meters. For example, and that is saying that the exit velocity of the round is relative to those that exit the barrel of guns of contemporary society, the on an SMG shooting a 9mm round, the base muzzle velocity can be around 850 feet per second (which turns out to be around 579mph) for a subsonic round (i.e., used with suppressors) or a standard round which may have a muzzle velocity of 950-1050fps (647.72 - 715.909mph) there is NO F*CKING way you are moving fast enough dodge the bullet, let alone compensate for the ROF of a weapon in conjunction to the actual velocity of the round taking into consideration the movement of the target at a given range.
The physics are a bit skewed right now which has plagued the hit detection and subsequent transference of damage to the targets in question. I.E., the basic mechanics and physics surrounding the Scout class emphasizes a uniquely unfair advantage, much like in the first build. |
Ourors
Doomheim
130
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Posted - 2012.08.22 16:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:People have been complaining about scouts being difficult to hit since before the signature radius attributes were even listed as being a game mechanic. Hit detection seems fairly good to me. If they are moving too fast for you to keep accurate aim on them then sounds like they are playing their class well.
If the speed or sig tanking is nerfed then scout is going to need a shield HP buff to retain some survivability, otherwise might as well play assault.
and these are the kind of people who will make this game terrible, and fail at launch protip; you are delusional and i'm not even talking about how the signature radius attribute is COMPLETELY different from what you think it is |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.08.22 17:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hit detection is terrible and against scouts I've basically given up. Unloading a full mag into them, seeing blue shield flashes, and watching as their shield bar stays at 100% capacity, is pretty disheartening. Of course, hit detection is also very noticeably flawed when sniping as well. Unloading a full magazine of charged shots into a heavy who isn't moving, seeing the shield flash, and him not taking any damage, is really pretty absurd.
This is easily the most significant issue with the game at this point. |
Skunk Shampoo
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.08.22 20:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
It's interesting to see people make legitimate complaints about the hit detection vs stationary targets at close range only to have some people shrug it off and claim "I can run fast, your argument is invalid".
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Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
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Posted - 2012.08.22 20:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mate thats hit detection which entirely depends on their internet speed. I have good internet o I get hit easily all the time when running around in my Dragonfly. I had the same when last build quicksccoped people with Ishukone sniper and saw the shield ripple but it didn't affect them. And that was hitting a logi. |
Domingo Cervezas
Cult of the Warrior
15
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Posted - 2012.08.23 03:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
I believe it is hit detection as I have seen the same thing. Adding only that the it is made worse by people jumping like grasshoppers. I have nearly unloaded an entire clip at someone coming at me, I see it hit the middle of their body as they are in the air and zero damage.
I'll also add that I have occasionally unloaded an entire magazine into someones back who isn't moving at all and zero damage registers. Their shield didn't even light up. |
Grille Tuna
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.23 06:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Timothy Reaper wrote: Sadly, there are a lot whiners, and they can make it difficult real problems seriously. I used to believe it just people whining, but the new build has shown that at least some of these complaints are valid. There have been times when I have someone in the scope of my sniper rifle (their stats showing on the screen), I take the shot, their shields flare, aaaaaand nothing. Even if it wasn't me they obviously got hit by something, but no damage registers. I suppose it could be friendly fire, but I didn't notice any of their teammates nearby.
Edit: It not just scouts.
Yup, sometimes I manage to empty almost an entire shotgun clip point blank into an AR/Scout/Logi an no hits register...
Ill third that with a Sniper rifle and assault rifle mostly on STATIONARY scouts but also noticed it on heavies ... (and if i had some form of instant replay I'd post it too:P) |
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Nagisa Zero
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.08.23 07:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's been noticing some wonky crap. I do a fair amount of sniping, and multiple times while shooting at stationary targets where their information is displaying all I get is a blue flash from their shields and no damage registering. I've had the same happen to mobile targets as well. Just a blue flash and nothing. This isn't just only on Scout suits but all others as well.
A few games ago I was close enough to another sniper that I could clearly see his head. Cross-hairs right on him, full charge shot and shield flare. I wasted 6 shots on this stationary sniper to only have a shield flare. Finally on the 7th shot it registered and killed him. How he didn't see me on the map or hear me shooting at him I have no clue. |
Guttzs Serra
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.24 00:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
I feel compelled to agree with a lot of comments regarding the "flickering shields" and detection issues that other gamers have been posting on this forum. And as such, I'd like to give my own observations.
I'm an returning gamer to the FPS genre so I can't completely write off all my encounters and subsequent deaths with other players as merely technical bugs with the beta. I haven't played a FPS in almost 3 years (since Halo 3) and well, I currently suck pretty bad. That being said, I was initially surprised how much I sucked when starting the beta last Tues.
My normal character load out with FPS online games is the standard long ranger sniper or the shotgun wielder. After having played with both characters for a few days, I've also noticed an incredible lack of accuracy with Dust's detection system. While I am a better sniper, I've all too often run into the issue of firing at a stationary target at a reasonable range, and getting either an complete miss or the blue flicker of shields and no damage. This issue is pervasive on all player types, heavies, assault, scout, etc. and this happens on moving an stationary targets equally. I've also experimented with the other weapon load outs such as missile launchers, miniguns, and others and find that this issue is not sequestered in any specific weapon as well.
Additionally, I've noticed times when (I'm supposing) a sniper picks at me, leaving me with 0 shields and armor and I'm still alive. While I appreciate this small miracle, no doubt if I was in the opposing character's shoes I'd be cursing at the TV.
And now for a little bitching: 4 shotgun rounds at point blank on a scout and no f*&king damage dealt? And then subsequently killed by said scout in the blink of an eye? Unacceptable, even for a crappy FPS player such as myself. |
Sectum Lightyear
Dark-Rising
26
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Posted - 2012.08.24 01:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shotgun spread and range is horrible. It might as well be a knife at times, but damn when it hits it's a powerful knife! It's meant to be a close range shredder weapon, but you have to be under 5m range to hit at all, and then pull off headshots to actually cause enough damage due to poor spread+ hit detection. If I walk around a corner straight into 3 enemies, I expect them all to be mincemeat. Not just the 1 inch square area of the right shoulder that detected a hit that might as well be from a pistol.
Sniper rifles..... well yeah it's getting annoying hitting a target and doing nothing. I lose so many kills this way.
And Scout speed = a little too high, especially if they slot a speed bio mod, or stamina boosters for infinite bunny hopping. |
The Goram Batman
13
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Posted - 2012.08.24 11:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
All suits have hit detection issues, it's just that Scouts get the most flak due to the lag/speed/what-have-you.
Scouts are not invincible. I die just as much if I run an Assault, or hell, even Logistics. And I've killed my fair share of Scouts while running any of those three suits. I can't deny Scouts are a bit (or sometimes a lot) harder to kill, but that's mostly due just to their size and mobility. |
Tosh Tearg
BetaMax.
53
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Posted - 2012.08.24 16:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arnold Sphinx wrote:There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people running around with scout suits and submachine guns. For good reason. The scout suit has TERRIBLE hit detection and way to much dps and range for a sidearm. The smg was good last build, as was the assault rifle. Now, smg's are the new assault rifle and scouts have become the assaults. I can understand if a bunch of frigates take down a battlecruiser, but when 5 frigs are able to compete equally with 5 battlecruisers, there's a problem. I'm both a victim and a culprit of this exploit, so I know what I'm talking about. A recon suit with a sidearm should not be able to take down assault suits with light assault rifles at medium range.
I find aiming with the SMG and the flash that you get when firing makes it just a close quarter spray and pray weapon. |
Sodium Snake
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2012.08.24 18:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
I play scout and sneak around with a handgun and an AR just incase. |
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