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Kro'nak Ragnok
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I, as well as many others, believe the LAV controls need to be changed for the PS3 controller. Although, I'm not a big fan of the new dropships controls, (as accelerating & decelerating isn't nearly as quick), I "accept" the new dropship controls because it actually flies like a VTOL aircraft with its primary propulsion source its bottom should fly. I also accept & like the tank controls as it makes sense due to that vehicle type being a slow-moving vehicle & the driver also needing to aim & fire its primary weapon while driving.
However in regards to the LAV controls, they are horrible. They may be fine to the PC gaming community, (mouse & keyboard), but for console gamers its appalling. The current LAV configuration controls of having the movement & steering be on the same joystick is the WORST possible setup that could have possibly been chosen. Its practically the equivalent to driving LAVs with an actual Joystick controller. This isn't the 90's. Complex console game driving has evolved along with the controllers. When driving people steer their vehicles with their hands & move it with their feat so it should naturally make sense to seperate the two functions in the game. There are 3 other combinations more suitable for acellerating & decelerating/braking;
(1). There's the option to use the shoulder buttons (R2 & L2) for acceleration & deceleration. (2). There's the option to use the face buttons (x & square) for acceleration & deceleration. (3). There's the option to seperate steering and movement between the 2 joysticks.
Not only have these configurations become the standard in car combat games but they have also become the standard in realistic driving simulators such as Gran Tursismo & Forza which go way beyond applying meticulous detail for their next to perfect realistic driving experiences. If nothing else you should at least consider using the control settings for LAVs that are used in the world's most prestigious race car simulators as those developers kind of know what they are doing. <- - -{Understatment}
Furthermore, I understand the need to make everything in Dust uniquely different for the sake of being different, but if you are going the believeably realistic path then tanks should not share the same controls as LAVs. Simply put when steering/turning a tank, unlike a LAV's front tires, a tank's tracks don't turn. 1 track will continue moving forward while the other track slows down, stops or goes in reverse, similar to turning a kayak/canoe. So naturally rotating a tank should be the same as trung a LAV. Seperating the movement styles of tanks & LAVs would further make each vehicle's driving experiences more unique.
Lastly LAV's are the weekest out of the default vehicles therefore putging an even greater need for LAVs to have precise gaming controls which the current setup lacks. Its extremely easy to overcompensate when trying to do evasive or precision maneuvering due to both controls being directly/physically linked to eachother. In addition to that your input is limited. if you want to go extremely fast & hard left you actually only allowed to go extremely fast forward & then have to let go of the acceleration to go hard left. Simply put when you turn, you are forced to sacrifice your speed input & when you go full speed you forced to sacrifice your direction input. This contradicts the power that you can apply to cars/LAVs in real life. If anything, the current setup overly simplified for kids & is quite reminescent, if not the same thing, as playing an old top/down arcadey race car game.
CCP please consider expanding the driving controls for the LAVs as there actually are gamers that are capable of driving vehicles using more than 1 button/joystick. As stated above, I've listed 3 alternative control options as well as 3 benefits for changing the controls, (Widely accepted standard in world renown driving games, moves uniquely different than HAVs & more precise controls). Please consider the LAV control change CCP. |
Deletedshortly
2
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kro'nak Ragnok wrote:I, as well as many others, believe the LAV controls need to be changed for the PS3 controller. Although, I'm not a big fan of the new dropships controls, (as accelerating & decelerating isn't nearly as quick), I "accept" the new dropship controls because it actually flies like a VTOL aircraft with its primary propulsion source its bottom should fly. I also accept & like the tank controls as it makes sense due to that vehicle type being a slow-moving vehicle & the driver also needing to aim & fire its primary weapon while driving.
However in regards to the LAV controls, they are horrible. They may be fine to the PC gaming community, (mouse & keyboard), but for console gamers its appalling. The current LAV configuration controls of having the movement & steering be on the same joystick is the WORST possible setup that could have possibly been chosen. Its practically the equivalent to driving LAVs with an actual Joystick controller. This isn't the 90's. Complex console game driving has evolved along with the controllers. When driving people steer their vehicles with their hands & move it with their feat so it should naturally make sense to seperate the two functions in the game. There are 3 other combinations more suitable for acellerating & decelerating/braking;
(1). There's the option to use the shoulder buttons (R2 & L2) for acceleration & deceleration. (2). There's the option to use the face buttons (x & square) for acceleration & deceleration. (3). There's the option to seperate steering and movement between the 2 joysticks.
Not only have these configurations become the standard in car combat games but they have also become the standard in realistic driving simulators such as Gran Tursismo & Forza which go way beyond applying meticulous detail for their next to perfect realistic driving experiences. If nothing else you should at least consider using the control settings for LAVs that are used in the world's most prestigious race car simulators as those developers kind of know what they are doing. <- - -{Understatment}
Furthermore, I understand the need to make everything in Dust uniquely different for the sake of being different, but if you are going the believeably realistic path then tanks should not share the same controls as LAVs. Simply put when steering/turning a tank, unlike a LAV's front tires, a tank's tracks don't turn. 1 track will continue moving forward while the other track slows down, stops or goes in reverse, similar to turning a kayak/canoe. So naturally rotating a tank should be the same as trung a LAV. Seperating the movement styles of tanks & LAVs would further make each vehicle's driving experiences more unique.
Lastly LAV's are the weekest out of the default vehicles therefore putging an even greater need for LAVs to have precise gaming controls which the current setup lacks. Its extremely easy to overcompensate when trying to do evasive or precision maneuvering due to both controls being directly/physically linked to eachother. In addition to that your input is limited. if you want to go extremely fast & hard left you actually only allowed to go extremely fast forward & then have to let go of the acceleration to go hard left. Simply put when you turn, you are forced to sacrifice your speed input & when you go full speed you forced to sacrifice your direction input. This contradicts the power that you can apply to cars/LAVs in real life. If anything, the current setup overly simplified for kids & is quite reminescent, if not the same thing, as playing an old top/down arcadey race car game.
CCP please consider expanding the driving controls for the LAVs as there actually are gamers that are capable of driving vehicles using more than 1 button/joystick. As stated above, I've listed 3 alternative control options as well as 3 benefits for changing the controls, (Widely accepted standard in world renown driving games, moves uniquely different than HAVs & more precise controls). Please consider the LAV control change CCP.
This +1
LAV controls are awkward and uncooperative for me, but I don't know if that's because they're just awkward or because my LAV skill level is only a 2.
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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I love the LAV, but it really needs separate acceleration and steering controls. |
Smokey Killer51
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes exactly what i was thinking cept i am to lazy to type
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Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.08.20 19:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well said. +1 |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.20 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Definitely +1 to this.
I've had reasonable success using the newly tweaked LAVs, but it would make MUCH more sense to make this change. |
Ni4Ni Venix
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
29
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Posted - 2012.08.20 19:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
signed*
One stick to rule them all just does not work. |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.08.20 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Speaking of LAVs, how are you supposed to avoid swarms now? You can't outrun them anymore, and when the hit you the flip you around... |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
40
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Posted - 2012.08.20 20:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have no idea how good or bad LAV's can be due to their abysmal controls.
If come release Dropships/LAV's aren't being used because of their controls (rather than any balance issue) then that'll be a huge cause for concern. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.20 20:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Agreed, I've posted about this before also.
Simplest solution, considering they have LAV and Tanks under the same Vehicle control settings, is to give an alternate config to swap the up/down movement of the one analog stick with the other stick. This way people can choose which they'd prefer for both.
It wouldn't be as nice as a separate LAV controls, but not take up a whole lot of time while accomplishing something. |
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Kro'nak Ragnok
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2012.08.20 21:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deletedshortly wrote:
This +1
LAV controls are awkward and uncooperative for me, but I don't know if that's because they're just awkward or because my LAV skill level is only a 2.
Thanks. Nice thinking outside of the box. I always wondered if adding skill points to respective vehicle categories increased the ease or responsiveness of operating vehicles besides just making higher tiered vehicles available. If it doesn't, I think it should as other skill point categories offer boosts & reductions. At the very least the base vehicle & piloting skills should offer a discount on the cost of base vehicles like having a gold card membership or something, lol. |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.08.20 21:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Signed.
Please CCP at least give us the option to use both sticks to control our LAVs |
Tactic Angel
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 23:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
I totally agree with this. There are a number of games that have better manners of controlling vehicles than what we have in our current iteration of the game. The LAV is just too quick to control with the existing controls, which are actually alright for the tanks on account of their speed. Personally, I would like that to be changed too, but that's just based on personal preference. I have no problem controlling the tanks, like we have controlling the LAV.
I think part of it is the physics engine. Don't get me wrong, I am not thrilled about the controls just based on the blazing speed of the jeeps, but the objects aren't substantial enough to behave normally. The tank and the LAV can be sent flying in all sorts of interesting directions when they bump into something, most particularly the jeeps.
I would say look to Warhawk or MAG for good vehicle controls in terms of driving a Jeep or Tank. What we have now feels like Halo in all of the rather strange ways. |
Kro'nak Ragnok
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 03:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tactic Angel wrote:I totally agree with this. There are a number of games that have better manners of controlling vehicles than what we have in our current iteration of the game. The LAV is just too quick to control with the existing controls, which are actually alright for the tanks on account of their speed. Personally, I would like that to be changed too, but that's just based on personal preference. I have no problem controlling the tanks, like we have controlling the LAV.
I think part of it is the physics engine. Don't get me wrong, I am not thrilled about the controls just based on the blazing speed of the jeeps, but the objects aren't substantial enough to behave normally. The tank and the LAV can be sent flying in all sorts of interesting directions when they bump into something, most particularly the jeeps.
I would say look to Warhawk or MAG for good vehicle controls in terms of driving a Jeep or Tank. What we have now feels like Halo in all of the rather strange ways.
Well I admit that I've definitely done my fair share of sending my jeep flying and most of those times it seemed like it wasn't going fast enough to achieve the altitude & distance that it achieved. Perhaps that specific {planet's} gravitational field is to blame, lol. Then again if that was the case our players would be able to jump like Power Rangers, ha,ha.
{edit} |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 03:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
I want 2 sticks, R for steering, L for accel. |
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CCP Frame
C C P C C P Alliance
470
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 04:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Moved to Feedback section :) |
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Andius Fidelitas
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.08.21 05:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
I also support this, the OP is spot on in his suggestions for better vehicle control. |
Khun-Al
135
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 05:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
The steering and looking is seperated because its designed for move players. They aim and look around with the motion controller which replaces the right stick and steer with the navi controller or the leftside of the ds3. |
Peter Hanther
Dead Six Initiative
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's based on the default vehicle control sysytem in Unreal3. As you said it works on PCs but not so well on consoles *glares at UT3 PS3*
I would be happy if they did the Warhawks thing and just switched controls to something more typical when you step into a vehicle. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 13:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
This needs to happen +1 |
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VicBoss
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
135
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 13:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 |
Cobra of Chulak
Aideron Robotics
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 here, too.
However, this is going to make for some frighteningly accurate driving of LAVs... if this IS implemented, I foresee a dramatic increase in hit and runs... ;) |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
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Posted - 2012.08.21 17:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
There supposed to be drop/support ships, not flying fighters. If people want fighters then let ccp make one but return the DS to how it used to be "like a huey helicopter"
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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 21:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
GODS DAMN IT ALL I BUY BLOODY ST TURRETS FOR MY SAGA AND NO ONE GETS IN EVER |
The Crackin Kraken
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.22 00:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree with OP. I just got in game and after being amazed by the awesome ground warfare, I decided to get in a lav. 10 minutes later i am on the forums wondering if anyone else thinks its absurd that there is no option for any of the standard vehicle controls that we have been used to for over 10 years. If people want to have the current controls then Hurrah for them but please give me acceleration on one stick and turning on the other! And also an infantry control setting with fire for r2 and grenades for l2 would be awesome but that's small compared to this. and if any developer implements fully mappable controls i will fly to Reykjavik and give him a blowjob!!!! |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 01:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Upgraded to AT Frag missiles.
Still no one will get in my LAV. I usually end up driving it around in circles the whole match. |
IR Scifi
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 02:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Khun-Al wrote:The steering and looking is seperated because its designed for move players. They aim and look around with the motion controller which replaces the right stick and steer with the navi controller or the leftside of the ds3.
As much as I hate to be that guy...if you're using the move controller to drive a vehicle...you deserve what you get. (Even if this is a most sane explanation for why the vehicle controls are so wonky). |
DTsoy Smith
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2012.08.23 02:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
THEY FIXED SO MUCH IN THIS PATCH SO GOD DAMN MUCH
BUT NOT THIS? IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE? |
Kro'nak Ragnok
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 15:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
DTsoy Smith wrote:THEY FIXED SO MUCH IN THIS PATCH SO GOD DAMN MUCH
BUT NOT THIS? IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE?
Well CCP was able to do a drastic change on the dropship flight controls so they surely should be able to make a simple control change for the LAVs, especially since there are so many unused buttons for the LAV controls. Hopefully they do it as the current LAV setup does feel like a joke. +1 to you good Sir. |
Tim Maroth
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.08.26 16:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
This really needs to happen for all the forms of transportation. The mouse and keyboard controls or horrendous and is the soul reason why I don't use them.
For example the key "A" shouldn't cause them to accelerate left and "D" shouldn't cause them to accelerate right. Instead they should simply turn them.
Mech Warrior online right now has an interesting throttle up and down option. Where Holding W with cause the mech to pick up speed, you let go of W when you reach the speed level you want. Space bar is a full stop, and S is to slow down or go into reverse. Again S shares that same throttle function.
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