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groovingreg
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.08.17 23:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
i am correct in that eve there are massive space battles that are thought by factions and corps, how about a small craft breaching the hull and letting loose a squad of mercs to either fight control for the bridge or my personal favorite is to find the energy source and leave a nuke before running away at a very fast velocity. i would love to have a big BIG impact on eve in away that would make the use of dust an integral strategy to the way in which corps conduct their business, even if it means blowing up the mother of all space ships. i call it capitol breach. |
Xavier Hastings
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
243
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Posted - 2012.08.17 23:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
groovingreg wrote:i am correct in that eve there are massive space battles that are thought by factions and corps, how about a small craft breaching the hull and letting loose a squad of mercs to either fight control for the bridge or my personal favorite is to find the energy source and leave a nuke before running away at a very fast velocity. i would love to have a big BIG impact on eve in away that would make the use of dust an integral strategy to the way in which corps conduct their business, even if it means blowing up the mother of all space ships. i call it capitol breach. I personally like it, but the EVE players... |
Gratis Una
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.08.18 00:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xavier Hastings wrote:groovingreg wrote:i am correct in that eve there are massive space battles that are thought by factions and corps, how about a small craft breaching the hull and letting loose a squad of mercs to either fight control for the bridge or my personal favorite is to find the energy source and leave a nuke before running away at a very fast velocity. i would love to have a big BIG impact on eve in away that would make the use of dust an integral strategy to the way in which corps conduct their business, even if it means blowing up the mother of all space ships. i call it capitol breach. I personally like it, but the EVE players...
I personally love the idea and btw if 40 or so dust players want to take the chance of breaching a super cap thats raining hell on a pos in null sec for my I would gladly put out the isk to see this happen with my eve alt. |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 00:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
This will never happen. The amount of resources required to build one of these ships is very high. It may sound cool but is in no way balanced. People who fly caps in eve already have a huge bullseye painted on them. There's a saying, everybody and their grandmother wants a capital ship killmail, even if they don't play eve. I highly doubt they're willing to lose millions in subscription fees for a free to play game. |
Markus Barak
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.08.18 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Someone always brings up the whole "hey lets take over the eve ships!!!" and thinks its a good idea... |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 01:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Plus how would it work, even if there was a system put in place that required the mercs to be dropped off.... how would you get defenders? You can't put an organised force together that quickly. Randoms defend? In a game like this organised squads will win out over randoms who don't want to communicate. And you're talking paying 200 mil to take down something worth billions before adding modules and takes a month to build. There is no way to make it work. Instantly killing a titan ignoring it's shields and armour is just a down right rediculous concept. It's only in recent years that titans have actually been dying en-masse, and the amount lost is still a pebble in the ocean compared to the number of other ships dead. Hell you could probably pick a single frigate class and more of them are probably lost over a couple of months than titans have been lost in eve. Even if we're not talking titans and talking carriers and dreads it's still a terrible idea. |
Hawke3321
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.18 01:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe not destroy or take control of....but maybe disrupt. Lore-wise it could be like a small force raiding a ship to stop the guns from raining hell on their buddies on the ground, but not strong enough to take on the entire ship's security force to get into the reactor or on the bridge.
What it could do game-wise is be a King-of-the-hill type game, and for the time the attacking team holds it, the ship can't fire its guns. However, if the defenders capture it, the ship can fire again. |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 01:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Only 1 problem with that lore wise. The Pod Pilot controls everything. CCP have said that larger ships have crews but they haven't actually said what crews do. I can't imagine any system not being automated so they're probably just there to troubleshoot the occasional glitch. Like the auto reloader jamming or something. |
wathak 514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.08.18 02:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
i myself would love to see a sort of space battle where w take over a carriers fighters or invade a ship but the amount of computer resources for this to happen is to large ur talking about processing what 1 group of players sometime numbering into the 1000s then processing there drones hitdmg and hitpoints while keeping track of all the dust players there mods hitpoints dmg and so forth.
Not to mention the infeasablity in terms of gameplay as in masive flet fights dreads take secounds to die as well as any other ship and u say a dust team will be abe to get in and out without being blown up sorry but illogical. The other gameplay proplem is that it be near impossible to get a decent match since 1 group is teamed up and ready to go befor the battle starts and the other aint by a longshot |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 02:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
wathak 514 wrote:i myself would love to see a sort of space battle where w take over a carriers fighters or invade a ship but the amount of computer resources for this to happen is to large ur talking about processing what 1 group of players sometime numbering into the 1000s then processing there drones hitdmg and hitpoints while keeping track of all the dust players there mods hitpoints dmg and so forth.
Not to mention the infeasablity in terms of gameplay as in masive flet fights dreads take secounds to die as well as any other ship and u say a dust team will be abe to get in and out without being blown up sorry but illogical. The other gameplay proplem is that it be near impossible to get a decent match since 1 group is teamed up and ready to go befor the battle starts and the other aint by a longshot
Exactly, and it's not like the space battles will wait until you get together a defender team, and again, randoms vs organised = unbalanced gameplay in itself. |
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Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.08.18 03:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
There have been suggestions to make this happen, it is possible, and many of them were reasonable. HOWEVER, it would be initiated by EVE player and the ways it would work would be VERY balanced, but also very peculiar and costly to unlucky dust players...
Basically it would work like this, EVE players buy highly sophisticated and expensive slow ammunition (Missiles), these would be fast, but have a huge signature radius (Yes the Ammo has a signature radius, think really really small VERY fast frigate with Microwarpdrive on crack). In any case the attacking EVE ship buys this Ammo, and needs to buy a special Warefare Siege module to scramble a team to go on board the module, and load into the special ammo, this requires the ship to go into Siege Mode making it vulnerable for 5 minutes while it loads targets, and fires... Then the defending ship gets its shot to shoot the ammo before it even impacts...
Now assuming the ammo is destroyed in route, that's where the huge gamble comes into place for the Dust players, the destroyed ammunition will along with it, destroy the required CRU on board, all the clones, gear and equipment you decided to take into battle, which you must designate before the battle even begins... Effectively you throw away you couple hundred million ISK in Dust equipment without even getting a shot if this happens...
Then comes the next gamble... Depending on where you hit the ship a number of options will become available... Hit a non-critical area of the ship, far from any command structure, and you will have to complete OBSCENE amounts of objectives to move to the next area of the ship (Lots and lots of securing, and hacking, and controlling), and you must fight a series of 5 battles to get there... OF course you could get lucky and just hit the command center, in which case, its just one battle (Smallest odds of this happening like 5%)...
But before that even happens I forgot to mention how this ammo works, it does penetrate shields directly, so that's the first perk, but the downside, is it must drill through the armor of enemy Capital ship, and this process is a 12 hours process... What this means is just like laying Siege to a POS, attacking a Capital ship is NOT an immediate action, but a planned action, which means the Capital ship, has the opportunity to mount a defensive force to counter the oncoming assault...
After all this is said and done the various defenses on board these ships will be formidable... There will be some slight disruption in capabilities of the capital during battle, from sabotage, but not so much from crew deaths, and unfortunately for the Dust players they will quickly learn exactly how good EVE structural repair is when they realize that their sabotage efforts are quite limited unless they entirely destroy a module (Forced overheating until it shuts down). However, the real Coup de gr+óce only occurs when the Dust pilots after a long series of matches, incredibly complex control point and objective scenarios, and huge numbers of efforts to avoid ship countermeasures (Depressurizing sections of the ship, closing of routes that aren't hacked in time, internal sabotage by the crew to prevent raiding party progress, inaccessibility due to pilot using additional ship defense modules, etc), FINALLY reach the pod pilot, and then they can win... Anything short of this and the EVE player doesn't even notice this...
The way the balance should work is thus... Each piece of Ammo should cost 200 million... 1/10 successfully deployed and embedded (Meaning not stopped before it even gets a chance to hit the ship) attempts to board the ship should result in a successful match with standard default ship defenses, and standard default dropsuits used to assault. Since most wont get that lucky first match command point hit, this translates to roughly 1/25 chances in dusts favor at 200 million a piece only AFTER you successfully hit the ship... You can improve your odds with a specialized boarding EVE ship, specialized proto gear on the ammo, et cetera... They can improve their odds with drones and small turrets to stop the projectile, internal defenses, and a good counter boarding team, as well as their inherent odds...
Overall an EVE player who just shrugs off one of these boarding rounds even if it gets through should still have the odds in his favor, and will. Thus they can get lucky... But given the size of investment a capital ship is, most wont take that risk, and so they will be provided plenty of opportunities to swing the balance in their favor, and overall it will take MANY assaults to breach a standard capital ship, unless the boarding party is both EXCRUCIATINGLY LUCKY and SKILLED.
This allows for those miracle war stories and holdouts for both sides, but also makes logical sense, and is balanced from a cost benefit perspective since all said and done it will cost a Corporations at the very least hundreds of millions to use this method to take out a cap, and on average Billions of ISK. |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 03:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jonquill Caronite wrote:There have been suggestions to make this happen, it is possible, and many of them were reasonable. HOWEVER, it would be initiated by EVE player and the ways it would work would be VERY balanced, but also very peculiar and costly to unlucky dust players...
Basically it would work like this, EVE players buy highly sophisticated and expensive slow ammunition (Missiles), these would be fast, but have a huge signature radius (Yes the Ammo has a signature radius, think really really small VERY fast frigate with Microwarpdrive on crack). In any case the attacking EVE ship buys this Ammo, and needs to buy a special Warefare Siege module to scramble a team to go on board the module, and load into the special ammo, this requires the ship to go into Siege Mode making it vulnerable for 5 minutes while it loads targets, and fires... Then the defending ship gets its shot to shoot the ammo before it even impacts...
Now assuming the ammo is destroyed in route, that's where the huge gamble comes into place for the Dust players, the destroyed ammunition will along with it, destroy the required CRU on board, all the clones, gear and equipment you decided to take into battle, which you must designate before the battle even begins... Effectively you throw away you couple hundred million ISK in Dust equipment without even getting a shot if this happens...
Then comes the next gamble... Depending on where you hit the ship a number of options will become available... Hit a non-critical area of the ship, far from any command structure, and you will have to complete OBSCENE amounts of objectives to move to the next area of the ship (Lots and lots of securing, and hacking, and controlling), and you must fight a series of 5 battles to get there... OF course you could get lucky and just hit the command center, in which case, its just one battle (Smallest odds of this happening like 5%)...
But before that even happens I forgot to mention how this ammo works, it does penetrate shields directly, so that's the first perk, but the downside, is it must drill through the armor of enemy Capital ship, and this process is a 12 hours process... What this means is just like laying Siege to a POS, attacking a Capital ship is NOT an immediate action, but a planned action, which means the Capital ship, has the opportunity to mount a defensive force to counter the oncoming assault...
After all this is said and done the various defenses on board these ships will be formidable... There will be some slight disruption in capabilities of the capital during battle, from sabotage, but not so much from crew deaths, and unfortunately for the Dust players they will quickly learn exactly how good EVE structural repair is when they realize that their sabotage efforts are quite limited unless they entirely destroy a module (Forced overheating until it shuts down). However, the real Coup de gr+óce only occurs when the Dust pilots after a long series of matches
Ok I got this far then stopped reading to reply. Not trying to be rude there's just a flaw in this whole process, well several flaws. This would not work for ships. A ship that goes in to combat generally won't live 12 hours. I know eve has pretty epic scale combat but you'd be suprised as to how quickly stuff can die.
Targetable ammo would produce a huge server load in likelyhood. Missiles are bad enough for server lag but something with other things in it that has to be tracked... Also you're not taking in to account the new time dilation mechanics in all this.
12 hours to get through armour? Why wouldn't they just blow the thing up while it's stationary? or just yank it out.
What about defenders? I highly doubt you're going to be able to keep a group of DUST players on 24 hour notice. Console players aren't like PC gamers. PC gamers tend to have more patientience and are used to things taking time and having to come back to it, console is more about instant action.
Honeslty a lot of people who suggest this on the eve forums are likely not cap pilots and have little knowledge of caps in general probably. I'm no expert but I know enough to know why this wouldn't work. I can kind of see what you're saying for a starbase structure, but in that case I'd say that you'd have to kill the shield and get it out of reinforced mode before you can do it. A starbase is a static(ish) structure, it's just not the same for ships. They'll be changing instances a lot too as they jump and that would have strange effects on dust players in likelyhood.
Yes it would be cool but you have to take in to effect how it will work mechanically and how it will effect players in eve, which is negatively, not in a game enhancing way just a bad way. I know that's a bit hypocritic of eve where half the players are sociopaths trying to ruin the day of the other half but still. I just don't see this working. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 03:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm all for anything that effects Eve players negatively and forces them to take Dust seriously - or forces them to shed tears. |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 03:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well you're already able to mess up their Planetary Interaction and blow up orbiting ships, what more do you want? (say Capital Breaching and I may have to slap you... say Capitol Breaching and I'll have to slap you harder) |
Talnos Nosslu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lets say CCP "makes" a ship like this on Singularity. Like a planet, it can be accessed for acces to Dust 514 battles. Will we see such innovation? I do not know. |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Talnos Nosslu wrote:Lets say CCP "makes" a ship like this on Singularity. Like a planet, it can be accessed for acces to Dust 514 battles. Will we see such innovation? I do not know.
That won't help judge the effect it will have on the game and servers though, since on Tranquility these isntances could end up in their hundreds. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
We could how ever have a capital boarding even if it can't be a "real" ship in EvE. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:We could how ever have a capital boarding even if it can't be a "real" ship in EvE. I mean, on the topic of possible PvE content, that'd be a pretty bitchin' scenario. |
Talnos Nosslu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Precisely. As a matter of fact, has anyone taken into account the number of destroyed Capital ships in New Eden? Good guess there are LOTS of crashed Capital ships and their remains. |
Richard Krys
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:carl von oppenheimer wrote:We could how ever have a capital boarding even if it can't be a "real" ship in EvE. I mean, on the topic of possible PvE content, that'd be a pretty bitchin' scenario. Indeed, this seems like an awesome idea. |
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Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Battles in wrecks in space I'm all for. It would be nice to have some maps for close quarter corridor fighting as well as maps of open fields for vheicles. |
Talnos Nosslu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Or, you could have a map that intricately combines both. ;) |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.08.18 05:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
That would work well for the larger scale battles. |
wathak 514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.08.18 06:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
i agree with this being a possible pve senerio that is completely possibe as for pvp well maby just mabey we can do something with null sec station but i doubt it |
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