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Ragin DaCajun
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I keep reading these posts from Protoman about how it takes him no skill what so ever in his tank while getting 100 kills in a match and they are OP. Which I've seen in matches against him and as his gunner once. I used to think he was just another tanker douche but now realize he was trying to prove a point in the BETA. Of course he might actually still be a douche just not a " please keep my tank OP douche" like I thought he might be before.
Then I see other people arguing that it's BS and there is nothing wrong with the tanks. They say it's because there is no team work against the tanks or comms use for teamwork. Then they say just wait until team grouping is added next patch and it will be different.
To me the more unselfish poster trying to make the game better and more balanced for everyone is the one who has proven his point on the battlefield and then stated that something he abuses by getting 100 kill matches in the Beta is OP and should be balanced better is more unselfish.
It just looks to me the other ones are trying to defend that it's not OP because they like how it is and want it to stay the same to keep their over inflated E-peen KDR stats and not balance the game. This kind of selfish crap is what kills a game and makes the community disappear.
Now the argument about once grouping is implemented the tanks rein of terror will end is utter BS too. Do you think the tanks don't have friends that will group up with them and help them out. If they can dominate alone right now imagine when they have their friends helping them that know each others play style. Seems to me that the grouping thing will cancel out each side and the Tanks if they are indeed OP will still be OP.
Hey people this game like every game is supposed to be, for everyone not just you. So try to help make it that way and not whine to get what you want that will make it benefit you only but the community as a whole. Selfish players is what kills good games and the community. This game has lots of potential so don't help to ruin it before it has a chance. It's a shame to see good game die because of this just like MAG, so much potential but in the end a fractured selfish community. |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
So what do you propose they nerf on the tank that doesn't make it OP and doesn't make it's function inert? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Im confused? As an AV specialist I eat muraders for breakfast. Current record for muraders killed in a match was 5 it was a bad fit though two forge shots should never finish any murader off. |
Unit-775
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ragin DaCajun wrote: I keep reading these posts from Protoman about how it takes him no skill what so ever in his tank while getting 100 kills in a match and they are OP.
Its more like a problem of redlining the enemy team and spawn camping with tanks. |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unit-775 wrote:Ragin DaCajun wrote: I keep reading these posts from Protoman about how it takes him no skill what so ever in his tank while getting 100 kills in a match and they are OP. Its more like a problem of redlining the enemy team and spawn camping with tanks.
This is the actual problem. |
Ragin DaCajun
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Debacle Nano wrote:So what do you propose they nerf on the tank that doesn't make it OP and doesn't make it's function inert?
I didn't make this post to say if the tank is OP or not just that this community needs to stop being so selfish and do like protoman who has proven what he says by abusing something over and over then reporting it here on the forums just to have people say otherwise and chastise him for it. We need more people to find abuse and then report things like this and not the ones who find crap like this, abuse it then defend it to keep things OP because they are selfish and like to over inflated their egos in a digital world for whatever pathetic reason. |
Vitriol18
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
There are some issues with the top end tanks, and the way anti-vehicle weapons are balanced
With a top end forge gun with maxed damage modules, i can pretty much vaporise any of the first tier vehicles, making them worthless, a few shots on even the mid tier melts them, but the top ends tank me fairly easily, the problem is less the maruaders tank and more how weak everything else is in comparison, if the lesser tanks could at least have a chance of killing a surya i think we would be in a better place.
The vehicle weapon balance could be a little better, the railgun is too good at killing infantry(big splash damage) and the missile launcher too good at killing other tanks, I think the railgun should become more focussed as an anti vehicle weapon, the launcher as an anti infantry weapon and leave the barely used blaster turret as a jack of both trades.
My one major gripe with high end tanks is how fast they are, when they are rolling they can hit near lav speeds, making lavs kinda worthless, and allowing completely unsupported tanks to basically run around the map with impunity, i would like them to move slower meaning they couldnt just turn tail and escape the moment things get hairy, and mean they would have to advance with infantry support or risk ambush.
My final point is a question, do tanks really need to have 2 extra turrets, aren't they strong enough allready, should fitting these extra guns come at more of a fitting disadvantage for the tank? |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ragin DaCajun wrote:Debacle Nano wrote:So what do you propose they nerf on the tank that doesn't make it OP and doesn't make it's function inert? I'm didn't make this post to say if the tank is OP or not just that this community needs to stop being so selfish and do like protoman who has proven what he says by abusing something over and over then reporting it here on the forums just to have people say otherwise and chastise him for it. We need more people to find abuse and then report things like this and not the ones who find crap like this, abuse it then defend it to keep things OP because they are selfish and like to over inflated their egos in a digital world for whatever pathetic reason.
Just because he has reason behind what he is saying, doesn't mean we don't have valid support for our cause. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 15:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tanks are not OP against 12 morons who are as dumb as a lamp post |
david test1
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Tanks are not OP against 12 morons who are as dumb as a lamp post yeah, the lamp post is far stronger then a tank :) |
|
Needless Sacermendor
98
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'll be quite happy when grouping allows me to get together with equally competent / intelligent players who will actually spawn an AV fit to deal with a persistent HAV, 4 or 6 coordinated proto swarms and forges will demolish any top HAV even with logistics LAV support, then we can switch back to rifle fits and carry on.
I'm tired of being the only AV running round trying to take down a HAV when everyone else just runs and hides, probably because they don't realise whether they're in a heavy or assault suit, the extra training you need for proto swarm or forge is minimal compared to the damage you suffer when one dominates the field. |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm starting to think perhaps that turret and driver should be separate roles. That would be in keeping with the other vehicles presently in-game.
If however there are infact gunships and other one man pwn machines inbound, ignore me.
If gunships are in, the tank issue is a non issue. The helicopter gunship has rendered the tank obsolete in the real world. The gunship will render tanks obsolete in Dust. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Once again this community proves the OP's point. Too busy arguing about tanks being op or not. That's a simple example. The point the OP is makin is that if you aren't proving it on the battlefield, shut up. Sorry to be blunt |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ragin DaCajun wrote: I keep reading these posts from Protoman about how it takes him no skill what so ever in his tank while getting 100 kills in a match and they are OP. Which I've seen in matches against him and as his gunner once. I used to think he was just another tanker douche but now realize he was trying to prove a point in the BETA. Of course he might actually still be a douche just not a " please keep my tank OP douche" like I thought he might be before.
Then I see other people arguing that it's BS and there is nothing wrong with the tanks. They say it's because there is no team work against the tanks or comms use for teamwork. Then they say just wait until team grouping is added next patch and it will be different.
To me the more unselfish poster trying to make the game better and more balanced for everyone is the one who has proven his point on the battlefield and then stated that something he abuses by getting 100 kill matches in the Beta is OP and should be balanced better is more unselfish.
It just looks to me the other ones are trying to defend that it's not OP because they like how it is and want it to stay the same to keep their over inflated E-peen KDR stats and not balance the game. This kind of selfish crap is what kills a game and makes the community disappear.
Now the argument about once grouping is implemented the tanks rein of terror will end is utter BS too. Do you think the tanks don't have friends that will group up with them and help them out. If they can dominate alone right now imagine when they have their friends helping them that know each others play style. Seems to me that the grouping thing will cancel out each side and the Tanks if they are indeed OP will still be OP.
Hey people this game like every game is supposed to be, for everyone not just you. So try to help make it that way and not whine to get what you want that will make it benefit you only but the community as a whole. Selfish players is what kills good games and the community. This game has lots of potential so don't help to ruin it before it has a chance. It's a shame to see good game die because of this just like MAG, so much potential but in the end a fractured selfish community.
So much truth to your statements
|
Ragin DaCajun
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Once again this community proves the OP's point. Too busy arguing about tanks being op or not. That's a simple example. The point the OP is makin is that if you aren't proving it on the battlefield, shut up. Sorry to be blunt
Thank you!! I guess it's a hard concept to get. Dang gamer ADHD. |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Once again this community proves the OP's point. Too busy arguing about tanks being op or not. That's a simple example. The point the OP is makin is that if you aren't proving it on the battlefield, shut up. Sorry to be blunt
No your not. Your always blunt and a little trolly.
Just because you don't like what people are saying doesn't give you the right to put a negative value judgement on people expressing their opinion with a circular argument.
The point of a discussion board is to discuss. If you don't like whats being said, leave. If you don't agree, explain. But don't try to creep some kind of "legitimacy of opinion" thats impossible to achieve, just to silence your detractors. Its weak sauce my friend. |
Resi Kaae Raae
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Marauders shouldn't be a straight upgrade in every way over other tanks, yes, they should be more powerful, but they should be more specialized (like EVE's T2 frigates compared to their T1 counterparts).
I think they should have superior fitting and tank, get a decent damage bonus to their main armament, but be unable to fit secondary turrets and be noticeably slower. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
I really don't agree with the OP. Tanks are strong, yes. OP? Really not.
After 2-3 weeks of reading the endless bickering between OP tanks and AV I decided to check. It just one weekend to train SL to level 4 and I already started raking in tank kills. Even Sagari and Suryas. Some were good fits. The weekend after that I trained to level 5 and started walking around with a proto SL. It made a difference. I was now raking in even more kills. I too had games where I took out 3-5 top tier tanks. It's doable.
The thing is you have to be smart. If the tank sees you and you're in range, you're dead. So don't do that. Out smart that driver. Hunt him.
And as for protoman's point, I completely disagree. He did nothing to prove the point that tanks are OP with no skill. He is a very skilled driver. If he drives a top tier tank and goes 100/0, he's good. He's very good. So what now? Nerf players who know what they're doing? Slow down their DS3's to level the playing field?
Hell no. Good players will be good. Always. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:I really don't agree with the OP. Tanks are strong, yes. OP? Really not.
After 2-3 weeks of reading the endless bickering between OP tanks and AV I decided to check. It just one weekend to train SL to level 4 and I already started raking in tank kills. Even Sagari and Suryas. Some were good fits. The weekend after that I trained to level 5 and started walking around with a proto SL. It made a difference. I was now raking in even more kills. I too had games where I took out 3-5 top tier tanks. It's doable.
The thing is you have to be smart. If the tank sees you and you're in range, you're dead. So don't do that. Out smart that driver. Hunt him.
And as for protoman's point, I completely disagree. He did nothing to prove the point that tanks are OP with no skill. He is a very skilled driver. If he drives a top tier tank and goes 100/0, he's good. He's very good. So what now? Nerf players who know what they're doing? Slow down their DS3's to level the playing field?
Hell no. Good players will be good. Always.
I just started using tanks 2 days ago bro. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ragin DaCajun wrote: I keep reading these posts from Protoman about how it takes him no skill what so ever in his tank while getting 100 kills in a match and they are OP. Which I've seen in matches against him and as his gunner once. I used to think he was just another tanker douche but now realize he was trying to prove a point in the BETA. Of course he might actually still be a douche just not a " please keep my tank OP douche" like I thought he might be before.
Then I see other people arguing that it's BS and there is nothing wrong with the tanks. They say it's because there is no team work against the tanks or comms use for teamwork. Then they say just wait until team grouping is added next patch and it will be different.
To me the more unselfish poster trying to make the game better and more balanced for everyone is the one who has proven his point on the battlefield and then stated that something he abuses by getting 100 kill matches in the Beta is OP and should be balanced better is more unselfish.
It just looks to me the other ones are trying to defend that it's not OP because they like how it is and want it to stay the same to keep their over inflated E-peen KDR stats and not balance the game. This kind of selfish crap is what kills a game and makes the community disappear.
Now the argument about once grouping is implemented the tanks rein of terror will end is utter BS too. Do you think the tanks don't have friends that will group up with them and help them out. If they can dominate alone right now imagine when they have their friends helping them that know each others play style. Seems to me that the grouping thing will cancel out each side and the Tanks if they are indeed OP will still be OP.
Hey people this game like every game is supposed to be, for everyone not just you. So try to help make it that way and not whine to get what you want that will make it benefit you only but the community as a whole. Selfish players is what kills good games and the community. This game has lots of potential so don't help to ruin it before it has a chance. It's a shame to see good game die because of this just like MAG, so much potential but in the end a fractured selfish community.
this post has so much WIN in it, i need to like it after i reply. It is true that tanks do need to be looked at, as even w/ team work it is quite a struggle to take them out.
A good example, is earlier today, played 3-4 straight games w/ STB Quickgloves & Omni lilmammj. One game a guy was running a Sagaris; and even w/ us using our comms and teamwork, it took us almost 5-10min to get destroy him. That was w/ 10 proto SL shots into him, RE's, AV nades, and 3-4 advanced assault FG shots. Could be me, but when u need 25% (the 3 of us) of a team to take out one guy it's a bit much; especially with the equipment needed |
|
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Grit Breather wrote:I really don't agree with the OP. Tanks are strong, yes. OP? Really not.
After 2-3 weeks of reading the endless bickering between OP tanks and AV I decided to check. It just one weekend to train SL to level 4 and I already started raking in tank kills. Even Sagari and Suryas. Some were good fits. The weekend after that I trained to level 5 and started walking around with a proto SL. It made a difference. I was now raking in even more kills. I too had games where I took out 3-5 top tier tanks. It's doable.
The thing is you have to be smart. If the tank sees you and you're in range, you're dead. So don't do that. Out smart that driver. Hunt him.
And as for protoman's point, I completely disagree. He did nothing to prove the point that tanks are OP with no skill. He is a very skilled driver. If he drives a top tier tank and goes 100/0, he's good. He's very good. So what now? Nerf players who know what they're doing? Slow down their DS3's to level the playing field?
Hell no. Good players will be good. Always. I just started using tanks 2 days ago bro. And you're already driving a top tier tank?
I've followed your posts on the forums. You're usually very annoying but in a smart way. I, like others, do not really like you but for me it's partly because you do argue well. Not another flamer troll. I believe this goes to gameplay as well. You're a thinking player. You couldn't get a 100/0 KDR and be a skill free idiot grunt. |
Ryjmont
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tanks are overpowered because they haven't got any counter to them, there should be a triangle of soft countering and hard countering units.
EG. hard countering
HAV --kill--> LAV --kill--> DROPSHIP --kill--> HAV
INF --kill--> AT --kill--> VEHICLES --kill--> INF
So far I haven't seen tanks afraid of flyers, and still for Infantry it shouldn't be impossible to take one down, at least with granades or explosives but hard to acomplish, for AT they should be preety soft, just like in BF, who cares you paid a lot of cash for it, If you dont have infantry covering your ass you are toasted. |
Darkz azurr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
btw guys these kind of tanks will be in highsec too where some people just wanna quick match or to play with a couple of friends together, if a tank in highsec wont die, its money well spent and you could use it every game, as there wont be big corp groups working together to kill the tank. mostly be lone wolfs. everyone should think about nulsec and highsec too. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
People keep stating that game mechanics have nothing to do with real life arguements. I believe the opposite, real life army examples are perfect for the balance we're seeking. Now back to tanks. This is a tank being hit from below by a car bomb. Tanks have the thinnest armour below and are most vulnerable there. I don't know about that car bomb but in Israel it took the Hamas in the Gaza strip 1000 KG or explosive (yes, a full TON) to destroy an Israeli tank. That was about 4-5 years ago. This is what happened to a tank after driving over an anti tank mine. Note how the only damage is a broken tread link. If I take that back to Dust, that is something that would easily be fixed by a logi with a repair gun. It disabled the tank but only for a short time.
So tanks are not OP. Tanks are doing what tanks do.
You really should stop judging tanks by how they behave in tiny maps with intentional vehicle spamming by CCP. That is no comparison. |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't drive tanks, but I do die a lot to them, especially if I'm not paying attention. I currently have an advanced SL. I can do some hefty damage to most tanks. With a couple proto swarms on the field, most lower tier tanks drop pretty quick. A well fit sagaris on the other hand is a pain in the a$$. I hate seeing those. Punching through their shields is tough. It definately takes quite a bit of firepower and teamwork. But, as stated before, the amount of vehicles, including tanks, in this build was intentional. Next build we probably won't see them like we do now. Also, we will see more counter options with seeking AV grenades, webs, etc. Maybe EMP weapons that will stop tanks, prevent them from firing, drop their shields. Any combination of these types of weapons can make short work of even the best fit tank.
As for missiles sagaris on top of buildings at the red line, that should be addressed somehow. But again, we will have to see how things will be implemented as beta progresses. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shadoe Wolf wrote:I don't drive tanks, but I do die a lot to them, especially if I'm not paying attention. I currently have an advanced SL. I can do some hefty damage to most tanks. With a couple proto swarms on the field, most lower tier tanks drop pretty quick. A well fit sagaris on the other hand is a pain in the a$$. I hate seeing those. Punching through their shields is tough. It definately takes quite a bit of firepower and teamwork. But, as stated before, the amount of vehicles, including tanks, in this build was intentional. Next build we probably won't see them like we do now. Also, we will see more counter options with seeking AV grenades, webs, etc. Maybe EMP weapons that will stop tanks, prevent them from firing, drop their shields. Any combination of these types of weapons can make short work of even the best fit tank.
As for missiles sagaris on top of buildings at the red line, that should be addressed somehow. But again, we will have to see how things will be implemented as beta progresses.
I'm sorry dude but that's not the EVE way. It's a valid tactic. Somebody should just go up there a knock the tank of the building or switch to AV loadouts. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
There have been some AV changes in the coming patch already, and teamwork will affect things, as well as spawn point fixes and a different map... |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Shadoe Wolf wrote:I don't drive tanks, but I do die a lot to them, especially if I'm not paying attention. I currently have an advanced SL. I can do some hefty damage to most tanks. With a couple proto swarms on the field, most lower tier tanks drop pretty quick. A well fit sagaris on the other hand is a pain in the a$$. I hate seeing those. Punching through their shields is tough. It definately takes quite a bit of firepower and teamwork. But, as stated before, the amount of vehicles, including tanks, in this build was intentional. Next build we probably won't see them like we do now. Also, we will see more counter options with seeking AV grenades, webs, etc. Maybe EMP weapons that will stop tanks, prevent them from firing, drop their shields. Any combination of these types of weapons can make short work of even the best fit tank.
As for missiles sagaris on top of buildings at the red line, that should be addressed somehow. But again, we will have to see how things will be implemented as beta progresses. I'm sorry dude but that's not the EVE way. It's a valid tactic. Somebody should just go up there a knock the tank of the building or switch to AV loadouts.
Agree, that's a valid tactic. Zitro did that once while I was on defending team. Not sure how I got out, but was able to and drop an up link. At that point was able to do something. But missile sagaris bombardment is difficult to escape when spawining. But I do forget that spawning sill be addressed in next patch, so no too concerned with it I guess. |
Denzin Hast
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't see too much of a problem with tanks except for the fact people don't want to invest the sp into AV or don't want to switch to av loadouts. With the right fit it is pretty easy to take down tanks. i have an assault suit with proto swarm and three complex light weapon modifiers. I almost one shot militia tanks. With the right team and good loadouts taking out tanks will be easy. Having forge guns to take out the shields then laying into the armor with SL will work very well. and with the price hike i don't think people will be able to afford bringing in multiple tanks in one round. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shadoe Wolf wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Shadoe Wolf wrote:I don't drive tanks, but I do die a lot to them, especially if I'm not paying attention. I currently have an advanced SL. I can do some hefty damage to most tanks. With a couple proto swarms on the field, most lower tier tanks drop pretty quick. A well fit sagaris on the other hand is a pain in the a$$. I hate seeing those. Punching through their shields is tough. It definately takes quite a bit of firepower and teamwork. But, as stated before, the amount of vehicles, including tanks, in this build was intentional. Next build we probably won't see them like we do now. Also, we will see more counter options with seeking AV grenades, webs, etc. Maybe EMP weapons that will stop tanks, prevent them from firing, drop their shields. Any combination of these types of weapons can make short work of even the best fit tank.
As for missiles sagaris on top of buildings at the red line, that should be addressed somehow. But again, we will have to see how things will be implemented as beta progresses. I'm sorry dude but that's not the EVE way. It's a valid tactic. Somebody should just go up there a knock the tank of the building or switch to AV loadouts. Agree, that's a valid tactic. Zitro did that once while I was on defending team. Not sure how I got out, but was able to and drop an up link. At that point was able to do something. But missile sagaris bombardment is difficult to escape when spawining. But I do forget that spawning sill be addressed in next patch, so no too concerned with it I guess.
Well spawning is sporadic and seems to be randomized on the redline. |
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