DUST Search - Should we buff Logistics?

Lavie Sonesh wrote:

Buzzwords wrote:

the type-II suit is not a valid solution to low mobility. you're stuck using a standard level suit forever...

i'm skilled up far enough to use proto logi. so if i swap THAT for the type-II i'm not losing 1 gear slot to gain mobility... i'm losing 2 gear slots, 2 low slots, 2 high slots, and a fuckton of PG/CPU/shields/armor... for the SAME mobility...

if there was a prototype tier equivelant, where the only tradeoff was the 4th gear slot for the mobility, then it might be a valid argument.

edit: also, if you're just gonna use the type-II logi forever, why not use a prototype scout or assault for BETTER everything else and the same 2 gear slots?

Because I personally don't feel the need to spend 100-150k isk for proto equipment when I can pull the same KDR and support my team the same as in type II. I don't have the best KDR but it is 1.79, so it's not horrid either. I can field my type II for 30k isk and never worry about isk. People use the saying don't field what you can't afford to lose. So I use what I need to get the job done. Maybe later I will go back to proto suits but right now I don't see a need. Only proto I use is my weapon and low slot armor repper.

Like I said it is what I think is best, never said it was.

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Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.10 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote I know there is a thread with basically the same name, but bear with me as I am speaking of a specific buff different from the other thread. Also, I am putting this here before Feedback/Requests to see what everyone else thinks. So, let's begin. As it has been pointed out to me by many many people (yes, you too Nexus Dragoon), the Logistics class is practically useless to both the user, and the people receiving help from him due to it's low mobility, low armor, receives the same amount of points as the other suits for helping team-mates, and the fact that proto assault suits (used by the majority of proto users) can hold 2 pieces of equipment and be just as effective at supporting the team as Logi's can. First, I am recommending a buff to the amount of experience received from helping people ONLY on the Logi suit. For example, resupplying a team-mate with a nanohive currently gives a 10 point bonus to the person that deploys it. But with what I am proposing, any Logi user will receive 15 or 20 points for helping his/her team-mates, but an assault/scout user will still gain 10. Secondly, I think the non-lethal equipment used by the Logi should be 10%/15% more effective than the equipment used by the scout/assault suits. For example, the Standard Nanohive, which has a range of 4.0m and resupplies ammo at a rate of 10.0% and has 200.0 health would remain the same for scout/assault suits but would instead have a range of 4.4m, resupply ammo at a rate of 11.0%, and have 220.0 health if used by a Logistics drop-suit (if it were buffed by 10%). This would ONLY work will non-lethal equipment which includes the Repair Tool, Nanohive, Nanite Injectors, Drop Uplinks, and Active Scanners. The proposed buffs would give the Logi no combative edge, and effectively make them a better support class. EDIT: In the new build nanohives will contain a finite amount of supplies, so Logi's would get a 10% bonus to the number of nanites contained as well.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.10 06:11:00 - [2] - Quote And, as I forgot to say, please tell me what you think of my idea/how to improve on my idea/ how much you hate my idea
Captain Isometric 2	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:03:00 - [3] - Quote I think the only real buff I need to see in a logistics character is a display when someone needs to be revives, healed, or repaired.
Iceyburnz 316	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:24:00 - [4] - Quote Captain Isometric wrote: I think the only real buff I need to see in a logistics character is a display when someone needs to be revives, healed, or repaired. Warpoint rewards for logistics are way to shallow compared to the generic combat role. It should be 50 for rez's. Helping your team mates spawn is just as important, if not more, than fragging the enemy. The logistics suits runs way to slow, for no discernible reason other than arbitrary balance logic. it has the weakest tank. Its easiest to snipe and has the largest hitbox of all the suits. I recommend everyone try play a logistcs guy over the weekend. everything gets wiped in a week anyway, test the builds and give feed back. You'll see what I mean
lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:30:00 - [5] - Quote A possible major component of the equipment slot is the injector. If this game play anywhere near Mag it will be a big influence on the battleground if you can rez. So it may be too early to tell if the logi does not get its just desserts. Of course with the change to the RE I imagine many 2 equipment builds will run nanohive and injectors. Remember fancy toys like the sensor have not been introduced yet either...nor grouping..which is team work ...which is where logi comes in. Too early to touch.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.10 07:52:00 - [6] - Quote Let me elaborate a little on this, as many of your comments make me believe you don't see what I saw when I wrote this post. 1) Assault is the best balanced all around suit, and highest shields of all. 2) Scout is the fastest, and has the highest stamina of all. 3) Heavy suits can soak up the most damage and tank because they have the most armor of all. 4) Logistics suits have the most...equipment slots...this can't be right, as the others have such great benefits and Logistics gets more equipment slots...it's not the only class with equipment, it just has more. This is such a shi*tty trade-off it's not even funny, Logi's get the crappiest benefits, and despite equipment being their specialty, it is the same generic equipment as assault/scout suits get. For example, the armor repair tool will do no more in the hands of a Logi than it will in the hands of an assault, so what will stop the assaults, who have more shields, mobility, equal armor, and more overall versatility from using the repair tool and getting the same benefits, but also averaging 10/0 in every game, compared to the Logi that gets the same benefits and averages 2/5 every game? Nothing. Nothing is stopping assault suits than being so, so much better than Logi's, and they are. THIS is why I want these buffs implemented.
Lavie Sonesh 11	Posted - 2012.08.10 09:53:00 - [7] - Quote With the new build coming online on the 21st. It will be hard to say right now. The patch note said logi suit got more shields and regen. Also if you want speed use type II suit you lose 1 equipment slot for a .6 base movement buff. I find that this suit is best for me. I have 4 load outs for it and use them all. As long as some a$$hole doesn't destroy all the supply depot.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.08.10 10:25:00 - [8] - Quote the type-II suit is not a valid solution to low mobility. you're stuck using a standard level suit forever... i'm skilled up far enough to use proto logi. so if i swap THAT for the type-II i'm not losing 1 gear slot to gain mobility... i'm losing 2 gear slots, 2 low slots, 2 high slots, and a fuckton of PG/CPU/shields/armor... for the SAME mobility... if there was a prototype tier equivelant, where the only tradeoff was the 4th gear slot for the mobility, then it might be a valid argument. edit: also, if you're just gonna use the type-II logi forever, why not use a prototype scout or assault for BETTER everything else and the same 2 gear slots?
Lavie Sonesh 11	Posted - 2012.08.10 10:44:00 - [9] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: the type-II suit is not a valid solution to low mobility. you're stuck using a standard level suit forever... i'm skilled up far enough to use proto logi. so if i swap THAT for the type-II i'm not losing 1 gear slot to gain mobility... i'm losing 2 gear slots, 2 low slots, 2 high slots, and a fuckton of PG/CPU/shields/armor... for the SAME mobility... if there was a prototype tier equivelant, where the only tradeoff was the 4th gear slot for the mobility, then it might be a valid argument. edit: also, if you're just gonna use the type-II logi forever, why not use a prototype scout or assault for BETTER everything else and the same 2 gear slots? Because I personally don't feel the need to spend 100-150k isk for proto equipment when I can pull the same KDR and support my team the same as in type II. I don't have the best KDR but it is 1.79, so it's not horrid either. I can field my type II for 30k isk and never worry about isk. People use the saying don't field what you can't afford to lose. So I use what I need to get the job done. Maybe later I will go back to proto suits but right now I don't see a need. Only proto I use is my weapon and low slot armor repper. Like I said it is what I think is best, never said it was.
Alshadow Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2012.08.10 10:45:00 - [10] - Quote i run with shield extenders, and then the sprint speed increaser ma bob, and a stamina regen boost, and some time i switch out one for armor plates, i dont ever use armor repairers because i have a repair tool, it helps me get around alittle faster, but i still say i have very few advantages over assault

Lavie Sonesh 11	Posted - 2012.08.10 10:48:00 - [11] - Quote Alshadow wrote: i run with shield extenders, and then the sprint speed increaser ma bob, and a stamina regen boost, and some time i switch out one for armor plates, i dont ever use armor repairers because i have a repair tool, it helps me get around alittle faster, but i still say i have very few advantages over assault Next patch repair tool will not self rep
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.08.10 11:52:00 - [12] - Quote Lavie Sonesh wrote: Buzzwords wrote: the type-II suit is not a valid solution to low mobility. you're stuck using a standard level suit forever... i'm skilled up far enough to use proto logi. so if i swap THAT for the type-II i'm not losing 1 gear slot to gain mobility... i'm losing 2 gear slots, 2 low slots, 2 high slots, and a fuckton of PG/CPU/shields/armor... for the SAME mobility... if there was a prototype tier equivelant, where the only tradeoff was the 4th gear slot for the mobility, then it might be a valid argument. edit: also, if you're just gonna use the type-II logi forever, why not use a prototype scout or assault for BETTER everything else and the same 2 gear slots? Because I personally don't feel the need to spend 100-150k isk for proto equipment when I can pull the same KDR and support my team the same as in type II. I don't have the best KDR but it is 1.79, so it's not horrid either. I can field my type II for 30k isk and never worry about isk. People use the saying don't field what you can't afford to lose. So I use what I need to get the job done. Maybe later I will go back to proto suits but right now I don't see a need. Only proto I use is my weapon and low slot armor repper. Like I said it is what I think is best, never said it was. what does this have to do with KDR? and i didn't say you said it was the best, but you did claim it as a solution to low mobility, which it is not, for those reasons i stated. even if you don't wanna run prototype fits all the time, at some point SOMEBODY is going to be in a match that matters. a match that's worth spending extra. a high profile contract, a corp battle, whatever. what do they wear for that? better gear is exactly that: BETTER. nobody is better off for having there EHP cut in half. no type-II suit is a legitimate "endgame" option. whether or not you plan on participating in that endgame is up to you, but you don't get to make that decision for the rest of us, and you can't claim the endgame is balanced because an early game suit "with a twist" exists.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.10 21:06:00 - [13] - Quote sigh This discussion is so off what I posted.
Alshadow Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2012.08.10 22:11:00 - [14] - Quote Lavie Sonesh wrote: Alshadow wrote: i run with shield extenders, and then the sprint speed increaser ma bob, and a stamina regen boost, and some time i switch out one for armor plates, i dont ever use armor repairers because i have a repair tool, it helps me get around alittle faster, but i still say i have very few advantages over assault Next patch repair tool will not self rep the fk! thats pretty lame, way to kick me in the ass, that makes no sense,
MrFancyMonocle Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.08.10 22:56:00 - [15] - Quote I haven't played logi, but based on the one time I was ever repaired in-game, I'd say make the repair tool (at least a ground troop version) similar to the TF2 medi gun and restrict any other suit from using it.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.11 02:32:00 - [16] - Quote bump
IR Scifi Algintal Core Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.08.11 04:19:00 - [17] - Quote Running as a logi I don't get nearly as many kills as everyone else because I spend most of my time trying to keep heavies alive and firing. So a boost to what we get per heal / rez / resupply would be amazing. The equipment (mainly the repair tool) could use a slight increase in heal speed but a fitting bonus to all equipment would probably be my vote.
Scarving Beta 1	Posted - 2012.08.11 23:02:00 - [18] - Quote It makes sense that a logistics suit would buff logistics modules and stuff. But Logistics suits also need to be able to sprint and jog fast and long - in order to get to where you're needed / get out of the line of fire / go back and resupply, and carry a wide variety of stuff.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:06:00 - [19] - Quote Sadly, people don't take enough interest in making Logi's acceptable to play because they have no drive to help their team-mates. This saddens me because this game is supposed to be team work based, and I don't see that happening.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:09:00 - [20] - Quote Needa buff tbh but not sure how new patch will work for them. Right now when most peeps see a logi they just sense an easy kill.

IR Scifi Algintal Core Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:54:00 - [21] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Needa buff tbh but not sure how new patch will work for them. Right now when most peeps see a logi they just sense an easy kill. Well...to be honest right now...we are. The only thing that saves me 80% is someone else joining the firefight to get an assist. The other 20% is that I've skilled the hell out of SMG's.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.12 22:08:00 - [22] - Quote Scarving Beta wrote: It makes sense that a logistics suit would buff logistics modules and stuff. But Logistics suits also need to be able to sprint and jog fast and long - in order to get to where you're needed / get out of the line of fire / go back and resupply, and carry a wide variety of stuff. I agree with you, but I didn't ask for a mobility boost because if we actually got it, people would scream nerf at the top of their lungs because now suddenly the guy that carries several pieces of equipment can run the same speed as the guy that runs with just one. It's messed up, but that's just how these nerfers think.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.13 03:13:00 - [23] - Quote I made an edit, so I'm bumping again.
kas croixe Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.09.09 04:46:00 - [24] - Quote Mmkk333 wrote: Scarving Beta wrote: It makes sense that a logistics suit would buff logistics modules and stuff. But Logistics suits also need to be able to sprint and jog fast and long - in order to get to where you're needed / get out of the line of fire / go back and resupply, and carry a wide variety of stuff. I agree with you, but I didn't ask for a mobility boost because if we actually got it, people would scream nerf at the top of their lungs because now suddenly the guy that carries several pieces of equipment can run the same speed as the guy that runs with just one. It's messed up, but that's just how these nerfers think. yeah, but we only get to carry one gun, and usually(in my experience) using that gun is a bad idea(because everyone and their grandma has a better gun, or more health, or my hit detection bugs out while theirs shines) seriously, in the base suit, i can just barely edge out a heavy in a dead sprint. I don't think my nanite vials and healing laser/nanohives weigh anywhere near as much as his HMG.
Jean-Henri 30	Posted - 2012.09.09 05:50:00 - [25] - Quote the extra power grid and CPU is what weights extra, as well as the equipment.
Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.09.09 05:59:00 - [26] - Quote I agree. Perhaps 10% buffs for militia logi suits, increasing by 5% for each tier up.
Relic Cross Bragian Order Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.09.09 09:01:00 - [27] - Quote You guys who think that the logistic character is bad aware crazy. They still have much more pg and CPU then any other character suit do they not? Now that armor has been normalized from militia to proto the fact that the logistic suit has more equipment slots than the others means potentially way more variations of flexibility. In my. Opinion the logistics suit needs an extra slot that can equip better versions of unique support items. Like a reviving tool that can be shot at an ally five meters away. Assault should have two light weapon slots. Heavies have armor and their heavy weapons slot. scouts who have nothin going for them at the moment either have only speed AND soon to be their cloak. I still love Playin as a scouts ouch. PS this website needs to be optimized for mobile phones!
Cinder Integ Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 23	Posted - 2012.09.09 09:43:00 - [28] - Quote Mmkk333 wrote: This is such a shi*tty trade-off it's not even funny, Logi's get the crappiest benefits, and despite equipment being their specialty, it is the same generic equipment as assault/scout suits get. For example, the armor repair tool will do no more in the hands of a Logi than it will in the hands of an assault, so what will stop the assaults, who have more shields, mobility, equal armor, and more overall versatility from using the repair tool and getting the same benefits, but also averaging 10/0 in every game, compared to the Logi that gets the same benefits and averages 2/5 every game? Nothing. Nothing is stopping assault suits than being so, so much better than Logi's, and they are. THIS is why I want these buffs implemented. As a proto-logi user, I'll throw out the idea that having greater amounts of CPU / PG alone is worth the trade off. 3 complex light damage mods, 66 shield extender, proto assault rifle, av nade, 4 diff equipment items, 1 5/sec armor rep, 1 cpu extender, and finally 2 of the mods which reduce the shield regen wait time. Point being, logi suits not only more versatility in equipment, but also has the potential for more damage or more shield/armor etc. The major trade off is a "very slight" decrease in movement/sprint speed and top end stamina, and a larger hit box.
PHAROAH AMEN RA Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:19:00 - [29] - Quote That sounds like the benefits come later what about earlier. Maybe a free 3rd slot on the right fixed with the kinetic catylizer to pick up its speed (no cpu/pg requirments). Logi must be sweetend to make it a choice that is viable. I think it just moves too slow. if someone dies there is a red dot around the logi must get into a fire fight to save his own behind, then do revives. Sheild regen rate are good atfer u have placed SP in the right places. So maybe a regen rate comaparable to the scout suit. Maybe even faster to make up for its lack of speed. If your putting yourself in the way of danger to help the team, you must be able to take the damage ur gonna receive while not having a wepon in ur hand. Just a few thoughts.
PHAROAH AMEN RA Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:42:00 - [30] - Quote 1 more thought maybe there sould be a set of dropsuit modules specifically for the logi with no extra cost cpu/pg..to fit in one and only one slot on the right. This might make up for its deficiencies early. 3 diff types of modules that dont get upgraded. designed for 1 slot as a bonus for this suit.. Yeah i guess thats yes to the " BUFF".



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