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Cless Vallein
Teknomen
37
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Posted - 2012.07.30 21:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think I understand what the OP is trying to say. In the end, the objective is the only thing that matters. I've seen lots of games on here, COD and BF3 where teams would get roflstomped k/d wise but still end up winning the match because they played the objective. Sure it's not a very celebrated win, but in this game you could be proud that you performed the service you were hired for and thus have a good reputation for holding different corps territories. Skillful players that always play the objective will do better but I don't think that's the point he's driving home. I believe he's just pointing out those that don't help the team and inflate their KDR. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Probably so many people do it because my reward is identical whether I lost or won. |
Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
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Posted - 2012.07.30 22:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote: Do you play logi? If not then you shouldn't be talking. You have a 3.5 kdr? Then you are a killer that holds the objective as well. You just proved my point.
circle holders that can't kill are cannon fodder. Killers that hold circle are good players. Killers that don't take objectives are tryhards.
Its not killers vs circle holders. Its good players vs tryhards.
Killers that do not tryhard and go for objectives>circle holders that can't kill anyone.
Not every killer is a tryhard.
Not every logi/circle holder is a terrible killer.
Break the mold people.
Do I play Logi Yes I have it proto out. just got it proto out on sunday. Been using the advanced for 3-4 weeks. I usually play as my logi but if I have to I take out my sagaris or my eryx because my team is not able push the front.
Why am I making this thread because of all the KDR trolls thinking there are gods. I would rather be with 3.0KDR circle holder team then with a bunch of 5.0KDR killers. Why because in the end great team of objective players will alway beat a great team of killers on objectives
So yes this thread is trolling the KDR folks because really in the end you are supporting circle holders to win the game.
Oh a KDR/circle holding team that is great is god like because both are working together to clean out the map.
So the KDR whores need to get over themselves.
also yes there are some very amazing KDR people that are circle holders. just not many because usually circle holding does hurt your KDR |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 22:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:The high KDR players are indirectly playing objectives by killing players,that goes for anyone in a troops,tanks or dropships just wasting players, however direct objective capping would be anyone that would get off there ass to hack a CRU,ABC etc. kDR is just a small peace of the puzzle and high KDR may give the illusion of a actual good player,but what defines a good player aim,skill, intelligence, leadership,?
Not necessarily true...
Some people, like my bud stlcarlos989, have very high scores AND they cap like crazy. GOOD PLAYER
Some people run around willy nilly and solo not capping but doing what they can to pad scores. BAD PLAYER
Your gonna have to deal with it in high sec pub matches. Fortunately in null sec/corp battles there will be leadership and capital punishment. |
Ourors
Doomheim
130
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Posted - 2012.07.31 08:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:
Killers with teamwork>circle holders with teamwork. Everyday all day. You can try and run as many different tactics as you want. When you are outplayed you are outplayed.
you're going to be extremely surprised when actual corp battles come into play, and good teams keep in tight-knit groups and specifically target "killers" as you say. three dudes firing on one dude will result in that one dude going down too fast to actually get anything close to a positive kdr. numbers rule in these kinds of situations
but in an unorganized game like how dust is now? yeah, high kdr folks can do well both with objectives and kills
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Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
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Posted - 2012.07.31 09:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ourors wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:
Killers with teamwork>circle holders with teamwork. Everyday all day. You can try and run as many different tactics as you want. When you are outplayed you are outplayed.
you're going to be extremely surprised when actual corp battles come into play, and good teams keep in tight-knit groups and specifically target "killers" as you say. three dudes firing on one dude will result in that one dude going down too fast to actually get anything close to a positive kdr. numbers rule in these kinds of situations but in an unorganized game like how dust is now? yeah, high kdr folks can do well both with objectives and kills Who says killers can't move in tight nit groups?
I have to ask you... Have you even been in a competitive clan/corp battle in fps of any kind?
Someone asked me how I take an objective? I kill everyone on the objective hold circle and then I shut down the spawn until I get the hack... |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
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Posted - 2012.07.31 09:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:You ladies are objective players support!!!
What i am saying is that kdr is not more important then everything This is why.
You can not win a objective game sololy on kdr but you can get slaughtered and still win if you hold the objectives
you never take out vehicles cause thay would mean hurting your kdr. so you are willing to let the rest of your team get curb stomped if it means keeping a good kdr. a objective player will take out that vehicle so he can hack the point.
you will choose getting kills which leads you away from objectives so you either not defending it or capturing it when needed. objective player will secure capture and defend.
Yes you do make life easier for holding objectives. but really that is just a support role in objective games.
You increase the chances of winning. but without objective players you would never win.
so objective/support role players are actually the best.
my KD is 4.01 and i dint know and i hunt tanks drop ships and Lav,s all day LOL ya KD is for noobs from CoD who think of the game as a big dead mach i see it as a ISK war .
MY 5 drop suits you killed me out of are still under the pries of your one tank i made go BOOM ! |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 09:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! |
vermacht Doe
93
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Posted - 2012.07.31 09:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:Never said killers do not help or even do objectives. every once in awhile they will but if a killer might hurt his kdr he avoid them then. killers do not win games circle holders do. Unless your playing amnush. i do hold 3.5 kdr but when a circle holding oppertunity appears i go for it. And then get back to killing as i keep it secure. support build players are more likely capt that objective then pass it by.
Yes killers are important and make winning the game more possible but in the end circle holders are what win the game and are willing to get killed if they know it gets them there.
A good circle holder always clears objectives then capts or they are great at knowing when they can cap without the enemy noticing before it is to late.
So yes you are just support to the circle holder in the end.
Hippocrates, smh. I've played with you before and I've seen you run around as a logi, throwing res like grenades, and whining like a toddler every time you die. And it's not hard to keep a good kdr, lots of people do and still go for objectives. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 09:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! Most corps already have alliances formed within eve that are willing to throw plenty of isk at them. So this won't be a problem. |
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vermacht Doe
93
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Posted - 2012.07.31 09:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA !
Amen to that, thats why i decided to look into things like that in eve |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 09:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! Most corps already have alliances formed within eve that are willing to throw plenty of isk at them. So this won't be a problem. Most corps already have alliances formed yet most i talk to are corps and alliances in hi sce ......Ooooooooooooooooooooooo |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 09:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! Most corps already have alliances formed within eve that are willing to throw plenty of isk at them. So this won't be a problem. Most corps already have alliances formed yet most i talk to are corps and alliances in hi sce ......Ooooooooooooooooooooooo Who cares dude its just beta. There isn't even proper corps yet. Get over yourself.
Nite-times>bad furry. |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 09:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! Most corps already have alliances formed within eve that are willing to throw plenty of isk at them. So this won't be a problem. Most corps already have alliances formed yet most i talk to are corps and alliances in hi sce ......Ooooooooooooooooooooooo Who cares dude its just beta. There isn't even proper corps yet. Get over yourself. Nite-times>bad furry. what your talking as if you can just start eve and be flying a dreads and have null space in only a week wake up bro unless you talk to a real NULL sce corp or a Low se corps you dust bunny's go NO WARE ! you can yes be hot dropped on a planet but i dout with out the support form your eve corp being out matched and out gunned and out numbered by a CTA of null sce players holding that space i dout you will take the planet and if you some how do you still need to hold the other plants in that space with it and i dont think any one on the other side would be stupid a nuff not to Hell camp the space your in 23/7 just to watch you rot a way as they over pries the drop suits youll try to buy off the player market and send in scrub dust teams at you for cheep isk just to blow up your tanks and kill off your drop suits un till all you have is milt suits then they send in a real team to mop you up like DUST off a floor ! |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
K/D matters. Objectives matter more.
If you can do both, great. If you're good at killing, don't come alone. You'll need someone who knows what they're doing. I was hoping most of us (at least the ones who matter) had figured that out by now... Maybe not TONY... |
KingBabar
37
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
I agree with everything Ceimson writes.
KDR is the single most important stat for anybody in a FPS, this really can't be argued. The community arranged elite vs O-holder games in MAG showed exactly what supposedly more team oriented play results in. They lost. Hard.
That being said, we have to get our feet on the ground. What is a good KDR? Any suport kind of player which can keep it at least 1, is good in my book. Someone said something in the line of "I'll take the 3 KDR O-holder over the 5 KDR tryhard anyday". Yes and no. In any case so should a 3 KDR be good enough for any standard.
I'll give you the once and for all list of noob-tryhard kind of players with description and everything, thats just how nice I am
Tryhard KDR is everything. This is the kind of player who like to lie out of thouch on his belly all round and snipe, he'll rather go 7-0 than 30-10. This is also the kind of guy who baby sits a spawn, instead of capping the letter, he may sit there, even with his RE just in case anyone accidentally spawn there. He rage quits out of games if his team is pushed too far, he may even go to lesser game-modes just too keep that KDR respectable.
Elite O-holder I'd like to think I'm one. The win is everything. This is for the "do what needs to be done" kind of player. Will take any objective he can but will make sure that its secure first. He's KDR is never spectacular but normally 2 or more. He can stand his ground against the tryhards. This guy knows how to shoot, move, support and win. He is aware of his KDR and try to protect, but will never back out of a fight to protect it. I think that many of the seasonen MAG players you'll face in Dust falls into this category. A good KDR doesn't mean thats all you're good for.
The O-holders See above, remove the good gun game. Respected by all, except by the tryhards. These are the guys that will be the work horse of most of the clans. He is dedicated, dutiful and always tries his best. A better player will shoot him in the head while he shoots in the body. Some will become more "elite" by experinece, like I did, some will just be mediocre and still contribute and have fun.
The Noobs Might just aswell write ******* in many cases. They have some gun game, perhaps even very good gun game. These guys couldn't care less about objectives, kdr or anything. They will just have fun. These guys tend to find exactly what is OP at the time and stick with it. They might spend an entire game just to see if they can get onto that ledge so that they can go somewhere they're not supposed to be to do all kinds of shenanigance. They can't fight well straight up so they tend pretend it doesn't bother them and rely on silly stuff to pass the day.
The Newbs Title says it all really. Don't bash on people for playing stupidly when they're all new. It takes time to learn the general way of playing FPS's and it certainly takes time to learn the ropes in Dust. I hope you guys rather like to give a helping hand instead of putting them down. This is vital for long term recruitment into games like these, so do your best to welcome new players, or else non of us will have easy targets... |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ourors wrote:the points distribution between objectives based play and "kill everyone, ignore objectives" based play is very nonsensical right now.
also, some kind of bonus for defending a point would be nice. i'm not sure why you don't get any points for stopping an enemy hack
of course, if SP was primarily passive gain, with only a little bit coming from active gain, we probably wouldn't have this problem since few people would be obsessed with getting SP
I recently started playing red orchestra 2 and its nice that it awards points for kills within the objective area. Thats an incentive for players to stick at objective pursuit. |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hum never played MAG, but I am sure i am somewhere around the O-holders.
Winning is what matters. KDR isnt important - well, it is, but i dont care about it while playing -, but sure, having it positive is allways a good feeling. |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:in the end i can see alot of CoD and MaG gamers giving up when they run out of isk when the players of eve start to make there drop suits HOPE YOU ALL LIKE PAYING FOR EVERY THING IN Mill,s OF ISK ! HAHAHAHAHA ! Most corps already have alliances formed within eve that are willing to throw plenty of isk at them. So this won't be a problem. Most corps already have alliances formed yet most i talk to are corps and alliances in hi sce ......Ooooooooooooooooooooooo Who cares dude its just beta. There isn't even proper corps yet. Get over yourself. Nite-times>bad furry. what your talking as if you can just start eve and be flying a dreads and have null space in only a week wake up bro unless you talk to a real NULL sce corp or a Low se corps you dust bunny's go NO WARE ! you can yes be hot dropped on a planet but i dout with out the support form your eve corp being out matched and out gunned and out numbered by a CTA of null sce players holding that space i dout you will take the planet and if you some how do you still need to hold the other plants in that space with it and i dont think any one on the other side would be stupid a nuff not to Hell camp the space your in 23/7 just to watch you rot a way as they over pries the drop suits youll try to buy off the player market and send in scrub dust teams at you for cheep isk just to blow up your tanks and kill off your drop suits un till all you have is milt suits then they send in a real team to mop you up like DUST off a floor !
The beauty of EVE's "real" economy is that controlling the markets is quite hard. Technitium aside, in EVE you will find plenty of items manufactured by hundreds of diferent people available on the markets throught new eden.
I really wouldnt worry much about the it being manipulated.
Remember, Dust is integrated to EVE, but also has to stand up as a game by itself for not everyone will go deep into the rabbit hole. So, even if its integrated, CCP hasnt showed to us yet how will it be done. Since they have to allow for casuals to play, I diont expect major problems overall. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:You ladies are objective players support!!!
What i am saying is that kdr is not more important then everything This is why.
You can not win a objective game sololy on kdr but you can get slaughtered and still win if you hold the objectives
you never take out vehicles cause thay would mean hurting your kdr. so you are willing to let the rest of your team get curb stomped if it means keeping a good kdr. a objective player will take out that vehicle so he can hack the point.
you will choose getting kills which leads you away from objectives so you either not defending it or capturing it when needed. objective player will secure capture and defend.
Yes you do make life easier for holding objectives. but really that is just a support role in objective games.
You increase the chances of winning. but without objective players you would never win.
so objective/support role players are actually the best.
Think you just described me LOL, hey but like i helped you take A and got kicked around as you picked me up and held down them trying to fight back hence the 38/6 |
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Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Now hold on just one second!
Your saying my team is for somthing other than just stealling all my kills?
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Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 21:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:You ladies are objective players support!!!
What i am saying is that kdr is not more important then everything This is why.
You can not win a objective game sololy on kdr but you can get slaughtered and still win if you hold the objectives
you never take out vehicles cause thay would mean hurting your kdr. so you are willing to let the rest of your team get curb stomped if it means keeping a good kdr. a objective player will take out that vehicle so he can hack the point.
you will choose getting kills which leads you away from objectives so you either not defending it or capturing it when needed. objective player will secure capture and defend.
Yes you do make life easier for holding objectives. but really that is just a support role in objective games.
You increase the chances of winning. but without objective players you would never win.
so objective/support role players are actually the best. Think you just described me LOL, hey but like i helped you take A and got kicked around as you picked me up and held down them trying to fight back hence the 38/6
Ya which makes you my beotch. :) Also if you ever want to ride in my dropship again you need to be nice to me and keep my ass alive as I keep us winning. :) |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 21:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Probably so many people do it because my reward is identical whether I lost or won. This is currently the main problem. Why would a mercenary get paid if he fails his contract? How could someone get salvage if he's not left standing after the battle is over? |
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