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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:stuff in bold
Laurent has point there.
Also, some other points to think about:
- Auto aim on forge guns 'capture' the shot sometimes to make it unrealistically accurate BUT ONLY sometimes. -> Auto aim must be taken away.
- Turret installations drop a bit too easily (4-shots)
- Forge guns need a charge indicator
- Marauders are nigh-impossible to stop juggernauts, even vs forge guns. Only way to lose one is a serious pilot error ( not backing up into cover). Nerfing forge power would be... Stupendous. Now, there might be an issue about tanks being too far apart from each other, meaning lower tier tanks are paper and marauders diamond. Sure, militia tanks and stuff atm. But I'm afraid of two things: Marauders being virtually indestructible even through forge, AND lower tier tanks being unusable. Perhaps HAV's ability to tank should be closer to each other?
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Dillan NightStorm
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
70
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
I love how everyone fails to see the point.
The Forge gun does excessive amounts of damage for what it is.
The best Railgun in the game can not manage to beat the best forge gun in the game for damage, the forge gun can track a target better than a railgun and the forge gun is a hand held weapon.
Doesn't anyone see the imbalance here? |
Cless Vallein
Teknomen
37
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
The best rail gun in the game... so one of the Large one's on a sagaris. Which I believe in another thread was said to do something like 2100 dmg. This merc also went to say that every time he shot the MCC with it he got the +15 cestus dmg from shooting it. Proto assault forge gun has base dmg of 1510 and 3% increase in dmg for each lvl of proficiency, I don't think that outclasses the largest rail gun in the game. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dillan NightStorm wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:My girlfriend uses Forge Guns.
She's used one at range against a tank. You still have to lead the target.
It's not instant hit. And against fast-moving Dropships, it ISN'T easy to hit. Get better at keeping yourself actually moving. What you fail to realize is if the drop ship is constantly moving it cant hit anything the gunners have an exceedingly hard time hitting anything. This means the Drop ship does need to be stationary or at least slow moving in order to do any damage to anything. This therefore means that it is open season for a forge gun user and as they rip through the dropships it's an easy kill. Get better isn't a decent response to a post if you can't come up with a decent argument then you may as well not discuss anything. I am a fairly decent pilot I have been complimented on many occasions. My gunners have had very good scores and been at the top of the scoreboard while I as a pilot sit down at the bottom. Now to be knocked out of the sky while using a ship that costs almost 200K isk per ship is a little harrowing to say the lease especially if its in 2 shots from a weapon carried by a foot soldier! This weapon needs a nerf and you know it does. If the weapon needed a nerf, I'd be agreeing with you instead of pointing out why you're wrong.
I'm not saying "get better" as my entire argument. It's the CONCLUSION in response to the actual argument, which is that a good Dropship pilot is hard to hit. And certainly harder to hit with a Forge Gun than a Heavy suit is to hit with a Dropship's Missile Turret. And in saying that, yes, I do mean it's harder for them to hit you while you're moving than it is for your gunners to hit them with the same movement.
More importantly though, anti-vehicle loadouts are MEANT to be good at killing vehicles. Your anti-infantry weapons are good at killing infantry, which balances things out nicely to mean you can both kill one another easily. If you're NOT mounting Missiles, then you're complaining that AV weapons have trouble hitting infantry when they're not MEANT to be hitting infantry. That's not a problem, that's you fitting your vehicles the wrong way.
End result being, AV weapon > vehicle. THAT'S THE POINT. You want something that can kill that Forge Gunner more easily? Send something that ISN'T a vehicle, and as a result, ISN'T what it's designed to kill. This is called "teamwork" and is a very good idea in team-based objective-oriented game modes. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Funny how it's all the droppy boys and tommy tank hiders complaining about as they say, over powered infantry and their kit. Sounds like and I'm sure this is because of a total lack of FPS skills on their part. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dillan NightStorm wrote:Simple thing to ask but when a fully spec'd out proto forge can destroy a fully spec'd shield tank Myron or Gunlogi in 2 shots don't you think it's time to nerf the weapon?
Why spend so much cash on a fully spec'd Myron if it can be shot out the air in 2 shots no matter how well you fly?
The instant hit and Indefinite range of the forge gun is a major balance issue in itself but the fact that it can decimate a fully spec'd shield tanking Myron in 2 hits is a bit much! To give this weapon infinite range, instant hit and massive damage whilst leaving the user with a good measure of mobility (enough to track a vehicle) just makes this weapon massively overpowered.
I haven't trained the Forge very far and even with the basic level Forge I can do a decent amount of damage to a vehicle, the best shield and armor tankers start running for their lives when you start shooting at them. With a full proto forge gun you don't need to worry about the second shot, it's a one shot kill hit unless the player has invested some time and money into their vehicle in which case you wind up for a second and kill it then!
Now don't get me wrong there needs to be a counter to good pilots and tanks and the infinite range swarm launcher does this as if can chase a dropship all over the map round objects and still land a decent hit to cause the pilot to rethink his tactic but the forge is just way too OP in it's current form.
I know there will be people that will instantly say no to this because they love using it but please I ask you to read and consider the implications of using such a overpowered weapon in a game like this!
4 shoots is the standard to any good fitted HAV; do the math per hit and multiply it takes at least that many rounds, so No forge is fine.
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steadyhand 08 orti
Doomheim
43
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Posted - 2012.07.29 12:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
No the forge is fine as it is, they are the hard counter to tanks, without them Tanks would become over powered, though i do think the forge should cost a little more, to reflect the huge damage output.
but thats for the markets to decided later on |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.29 13:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dillan NightStorm wrote:I love how everyone fails to see the point.
The Forge gun does excessive amounts of damage for what it is.
The best Railgun in the game can not manage to beat the best forge gun in the game for damage, the forge gun can track a target better than a railgun and the forge gun is a hand held weapon.
Doesn't anyone see the imbalance here? It's possible for the best Forge Guns to put out higher direct damage per shot with the right skills and modules equipped to buff it to the max, when compared with a Railgun with larger splash radius, more splash damage, and higher rate of fire.
But yes, the Forge Gun does more damage. |
Helius Aphelion
5
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
The Forge Gun is an Anti-Material Weapon. In all reality, it should be buffed. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dont use it anymore since I got the swarm proto but still NO NO to nerf of it. |
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Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dillan NightStorm wrote:I love how everyone fails to see the point.
The Forge gun does excessive amounts of damage for what it is.
The best Railgun in the game can not manage to beat the best forge gun in the game for damage, the forge gun can track a target better than a railgun and the forge gun is a hand held weapon.
Doesn't anyone see the imbalance here?
Yes but that rail gun is also attached to a tank with how many hit points of shield and armor, not to mention more module slots to improve the damage/armor. You can't just look at the damage output of a weapon and cry nerf, look at the big picture. |
Zeran Haggai
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
196
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dillan NightStorm wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:My girlfriend uses Forge Guns.
She's used one at range against a tank. You still have to lead the target.
It's not instant hit. And against fast-moving Dropships, it ISN'T easy to hit. Get better at keeping yourself actually moving. What you fail to realize is if the drop ship is constantly moving it cant hit anything the gunners have an exceedingly hard time hitting anything. This means the Drop ship does need to be stationary or at least slow moving in order to do any damage to anything. This therefore means that it is open season for a forge gun user and as they rip through the dropships it's an easy kill. Get better isn't a decent response to a post if you can't come up with a decent argument then you may as well not discuss anything. I am a fairly decent pilot I have been complimented on many occasions. My gunners have had very good scores and been at the top of the scoreboard while I as a pilot sit down at the bottom. Now to be knocked out of the sky while using a ship that costs almost 200K isk per ship is a little harrowing to say the lease especially if its in 2 shots from a weapon carried by a foot soldier! This weapon needs a nerf and you know it does.
What you fail to realize is that your ship isn't meant to be used like a tank, hovering slowly around the battlefield indiscriminately blowing up infantry with its turrets. It's a DROPship! It's primary function is to pick up a squad of players, move quickly to a strategic location, and DROP the infantry players off. If you'd hovering around trying to blow everything in sight up like a tank then you're using your equipment wrong. That's not the forge guns fault, that's yours.
Tbone322 wrote:
Yes but that rail gun is also attached to a tank with how many hit points of shield and armor, not to mention more module slots to improve the damage/armor. You can't just look at the damage output of a weapon and cry nerf, look at the big picture.
Don't forget that the tank also has two more guns attached to it in addition, they like to forget about that. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
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Posted - 2012.07.31 10:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Three unlimited ammo guns targetting one guy wobbling around in a fat suit with four shots at a time which he has to charge up. Hmmm, who is Op with the advantage ? |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
138
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Posted - 2012.07.31 10:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
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BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
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Posted - 2012.07.31 10:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
BUFF IT ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xvkAPXB9c |
Nick Phantom
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2012.07.31 11:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
NO Heckzzz NO! I look at it like this when I'm running around with it I shoot at dropships tanks and if infantry gets in my way 1 of 2 things happen.
1. They jump trying to time it just right so they don't take the brunt of the shot. Obviously this doesn't work time they could have been shooting me is now waisted. I charge my forge gun aim it directly where i predict they will land and.... KAPOW! Crispy fried Merc! Hot and ready to server ALWAYS.
2. They shoot me and say f jumping i know better. They get right down to business and kill me. I fall over dead think about what went wrong. Hold R1 in rage hoping the gun with fire a lucky shot and hit them. Once I finally decide I've hoped for the game to glitch long enough i push O. Get back in the game and HUNT THE MF DOWN! (for those that don't know what MF stands for it's MOUNTAIN of FUDGE)
Oh and I went 21 and 2 with a FORGE GUN the other day no gunner seats just a FORGE GUN. I did not get into a tank or a dropship or any other vehicle. I got lucky a lot. Plus for some reason people kept running around me in circles thinking i would magically die or something.
As much as I don't care for giving people advice on how to beat something I like to run around with here's how to kill a forge gunner. Move side to side shooting at the person with forge gun. Then run forward quickly so he has to re-aim and try to predict where you are going to be when the gun goes off. After he shoots stop move side to side while shooting at the forge gunner. Move unpredictable to keep the forge gunner guessing. If you stand still I WILL kill you. If you run straight at me I WILL kill you. If you move in any way that can be predicted the forge gunner ALWAYS wins. Also don't try to hide splash damage WILL kill you. Any questions? No? Good cuz that's all i'm giving you. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.07.31 11:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Forge guns are fine. Dropships are hard to hit with the forge gun at long range (if moving), and at close range, should be moving fast enough that the forge gun shouldn't hit anyway.
Tanks... I find marauders hard to kill with forge guns. Everything else, fine. But that's what it should be, for a gun which limits movement on an already limited dropsuit. If a tank sees me before I get them... I'm usually dead. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nick Phantom wrote:Plus for some reason people kept running around me in circles thinking i would magically die or something. I did that once.
I was hoping the Forge Gun guy would magically die to my grenade that I wasn't allowed to throw. I'm still not sure why it wouldn't throw, but I apparently got a grenade kill on someone else on my team about 10 seconds after respawning... |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.07.31 12:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:stuff in bold Laurent has point there. Also, some other points to think about: - Auto aim on forge guns 'capture' the shot sometimes to make it unrealistically accurate BUT ONLY sometimes. -> Auto aim must be taken away. - Turret installations drop a bit too easily (4-shots) - Forge guns need a charge indicator - Marauders are nigh-impossible to stop juggernauts, even vs forge guns. Only way to lose one is a serious pilot error ( not backing up into cover). Nerfing forge power would be... Stupendous. Now, there might be an issue about tanks being too far apart from each other, meaning lower tier tanks are paper and marauders diamond. Sure, militia tanks and stuff atm. But I'm afraid of two things: Marauders being virtually indestructible even through forge, AND lower tier tanks being unusable. Perhaps HAV's ability to tank should be closer to each other?
thanks mate.
I agree with you (and a lot of people) regarding aim assist. Just take it off plain and simple. I'm pretty sure it is one of the reason why hit detection and aiming is so bad compared to other games. Take it off. Don't add mouse and keyboard. And there you go.
Turret installation ARE WAY TOO FRAGILE. in fact all installations are way too fragile including CRUs, supply depot etc.... But this would deserve a dedicated topic.
I think i red somewhere that charge indicator for forge guns will be back in next build.
Tanks are, imo, fine the way they are when you know that we'll get webifiers that will prevent tanks running away to auto-rep. Also i would love to see some disturb tool for Logi that would disrupt the tanks rep system. A boost in RE's damage would be nice also. (as the nerf bat will hit pretty hard on those) |
Cong Zilla
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.07.31 13:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
The Forge should absolutely be nerfed, far to many carebears sitting around mining Pyroxers all day there. |
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vermacht Doe
93
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Posted - 2012.07.31 13:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cong Zilla wrote:The Forge should absolutely be nerfed, far to many carebears sitting around mining Pyroxers all day there.
Yes it should be nerfed along with your tanks armour |
Cong Zilla
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.07.31 13:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:Cong Zilla wrote:The Forge should absolutely be nerfed, far to many carebears sitting around mining Pyroxers all day there. Yes it should be nerfed along with your tanks armour I think that joke went right over your head. |
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