Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
The forgegun is a AV weapon it should cause major damage to vehicles and yes it should kill a tank in 4 or 5 shots. However the forge gun is not an anti infintry weapon and should do less damage against infintry. The forge gun should also not be a long range weapon, it should have a accuracy fallout at medium range.
So damage vs vehicles is good Should do less damage vs dropsuits Should have less accuacy(as in cant even hit dropsuits at mid range but can still hit the much large vehicles at mid range)
The machine gun needs some help it is supposed to be a anti-infintry weapon at mid and short range so increase is damage r find some otger way to improve it.
More damage |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Forge guns are mini rail guns, it takes two shots to take down a proto heavy with a proto forge dead on and 4 to take down a maurader HAV. The Forge gun has to be aimed from the hip so no zoom in and a very small splash radius. Granted if you are in that radius you usually die or are mostly dead but it so very hard to get dead on hits but thats how a mini rail gun should be. Honestly if something going a fourth of the speed of light hits you, you go splat, the wall next to you goes splat and in the real world anything that the round touched is vaporized no questions asked so be grateful that they choose moderate realism over fantasy. HMG does need work. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dat Forge |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 02:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
See there's only one issue with this for me.
A recoiless rifle is an anti vehicle weapon designed specifically for penetrating armor plating. A few shots from them will ruin the day of anyone not driving a heavily armored vehicle.
A recoiless rifle hitting someone in the chest will make them explode rather impressively. The same goes for the Forge Gun. Just because it's an AV weapon shouldn't mean it should have some kind of arbitrary and logic-defying nerf to its damage against infantry. From what I've heard, its damn hard to aim the things with all the shaking the charge sequence causes, so if someone kills you with one, you should be patting them on the back. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 03:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: From what I've heard, its damn hard to aim the things with all the shaking the charge sequence causes, so if someone kills you with one, you should be patting them on the back.
Reacharounds welcomed
|
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 03:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Carilito wrote:Forge guns are mini rail guns, it takes two shots to take down a proto heavy with a proto forge dead on and 4 to take down a maurader HAV. The Forge gun has to be aimed from the hip so no zoom in and a very small splash radius. Granted if you are in that radius you usually die or are mostly dead but it so very hard to get dead on hits but thats how a mini rail gun should be. Honestly if something going a fourth of the speed of light hits you, you go splat, the wall next to you goes splat and in the real world anything that the round touched is vaporized no questions asked so be grateful that they choose moderate realism over fantasy. HMG does need work.
Takes way more than 4 shots to kill a Marauder tank. Madrugar, probably, but Marauder never. It takes at least 9-12 direct hits, without the driver using boosters. I know, I use my Proto Forge with proficiency to the max. As for infantry, its fine, the thing is so hard to use, most of the time whe someone sees you youre dead if you miss the first Forge shots, and if you win, shields and armor are almost always low. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Takes way more than 4 shots to kill a Marauder tank. Madrugar, probably, but Marauder never. It takes at least 9-12 direct hits, without the driver using boosters. I know, I use my Proto Forge with proficiency to the max. As for infantry, its fine, the thing is so hard to use, most of the time whe someone sees you youre dead if you miss the first Forge shots, and if you win, shields and armor are almost always low. You're assuming the Marauder is fitted well. Cheap fits on a Marauder can leave it very squishy. Also, Glass Cannon fits are sometimes pretty easy to tear open if they're not REALLY cautious. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Carilito wrote:Forge guns are mini rail guns, it takes two shots to take down a proto heavy with a proto forge dead on and 4 to take down a maurader HAV. The Forge gun has to be aimed from the hip so no zoom in and a very small splash radius. Granted if you are in that radius you usually die or are mostly dead but it so very hard to get dead on hits but thats how a mini rail gun should be. Honestly if something going a fourth of the speed of light hits you, you go splat, the wall next to you goes splat and in the real world anything that the round touched is vaporized no questions asked so be grateful that they choose moderate realism over fantasy. HMG does need work. Takes way more than 4 shots to kill a Marauder tank. Madrugar, probably, but Marauder never. It takes at least 9-12 direct hits, without the driver using boosters. I know, I use my Proto Forge with proficiency to the max. As for infantry, its fine, the thing is so hard to use, most of the time whe someone sees you youre dead if you miss the first Forge shots, and if you win, shields and armor are almost always low.
Never found a tank that doesnt pop in under 8 shots max 4 is the standard; if anything is surviving 12 round from a proto forge you arent hitting it dead on. Look at the dmg you do plus the protosuit modifier and the dmg modifier, you see that you easily do 13k + on direct hits after 8 rounds. If your counting the chance of shots missed then your guess could be true but most forge gunners are in a position to laugh as the tank tries to run from you. Remember always attack a tank from the position of surprise and advantage; to do so is idiotic from infantry. If this is done 8 shots from a proto forge should be a very easy task if not you did something wrong. The math says 8 shots makes a mess of any marauder that isnt pure defense the trick is you have to hit it. 4 shots makes a mess of a normal Marauder pilot that invested in shield/armor resist, regen and guns. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
The forgegun is a mini railgun firing plasma in a magnetic field, on impact the field breacks venting plasma onto a target. The rail gun would fire a large mass of plasma not a pinpoint dot of it, now this against vehicle doesnt matter because the vehicle are large enough to absorb all the damage, were as on infintry the intire mass of plasma wouldnt be able to hit the smaller infintry. Ergo realism and not a anti infintry weapon. it should still do damage to infintry but it shouldnt be a main weapon against infintry thats why AV have side arms. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:The forgegun is a mini railgun firing plasma in a magnetic field, on impact the field breacks venting plasma onto a target. The rail gun would fire a large mass of plasma not a pinpoint dot of it, now this against vehicle doesnt matter because the vehicle are large enough to absorb all the damage, were as on infintry the intire mass of plasma wouldnt be able to hit the smaller infintry. Ergo realism and not a anti infintry weapon. it should still do damage to infintry but it shouldnt be a main weapon against infintry thats why AV have side arms.
Lol this makes less sense; so just because say 30% of forge plasma blob hits a guy going faster then a bullet and it doesnt rip him apart. That doesnt make sense; physics dictates he or at least the part of him that touch the super heated super fast blob is gone. If what you say is true anything smaller then a forge gun would be like shooting spit balls at drop suits considering the literal magnitudes in difference in kinetic energy. |
|
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: From what I've heard, its damn hard to aim the things with all the shaking the charge sequence causes, so if someone kills you with one, you should be patting them on the back. Reacharounds welcomed
|
Arcushek Dion
Doomheim
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 05:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you are getting 1-shotted by a forge gun its because you are standing still. That or you're moving in very predictable patterns. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arcushek Dion wrote:If you are getting 1-shotted by a forge gun its because you are standing still. That or you're moving in very predictable patterns. Or you're a REALLY squishy Scout like me and went in the wrong-est direction. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 for shorter range on forge guns. They're not railguns, they're plasma or something. More akin to EVE Blasters than Rails. Shorter range but sick damage.
IMHO, Forge guns should be primarily tank killers, while Swarm Launchers should be primarily Dropship killers. I think Forge guns are a little OP versus dropships. That said, if a dropship gets too close to the ground and in range of the forge gun, it should get vaporized.
Perhaps reduced damage based on distance? *shrug*
Rough similarities: Forge gun - blasters Railgun - sniper rifle Swarm Launcher - missiles Mass driver - artillery AR - autocannon Laser rifle - lasers ;) |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 15:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
The forge gun is a AV weapon it shouldnt be used as a anti infintry weapon, and it shouldnt be able to accuractly hit a small target at medium range. So im asking that it gets does less damage vs infintry and it get a small accuracy falloff just enough to miss infintry at range but not enough to miss vehicles at range. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:The forge gun is a AV weapon it shouldnt be used as a anti infintry weapon, and it shouldnt be able to accuractly hit a small target at medium range. So im asking that it gets does less damage vs infintry and it get a small accuracy falloff just enough to miss infintry at range but not enough to kiss vehicles at range.
Wiki quotes An anti-personnel weapon is one primarily used to incapacitate people, as opposed to attacking structures or vehicles.
Anti-tank warfare arose as a result of the need to develop technology and tactics to destroy tanks and their supporting infantry during the First World War.
The forge is great against vehicles but to say that a round that can rip open shields and armor of a tank cant would be way to unrealistic if it didnt absolutely rip through infantry, if it hits. Honestly as a forge gunner you only shoot at people who are standing still or predictable; its sheer luck if you get hit by a forge round at any range below medium-long. Your post implies that its an unstopable killing machine like the HMG was a build ago and this is simply not true. As a forge gunner your are generally sitting on 150 k worth of gear so you stay out of the middle of combat and any forge gunner dumb enough to find himself in a close combat skirmish is either A. pull out the smg in his pocket or B try to forge you and die or C run like a smart forge gunner. A well skilled forge gunner and I mean a few mil into weapon skills that forge gunner is a god among men and rightly so at that point. But he will rarely try to take positions of offense or even defense if the enemy is with in medium range. The smart approach is fall back and bait your target with the objective they are fighting you for. If you fall for this you should die because the forge gunner out witted you and smart play cant be nerfed.
Laser rifles need a buff, no one uses them... |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
my.issue with this came up when I round a corner in biomass and started putting rounds into a heavy, then he plasted me with his forgegun while I was moving around shooting. Another time was when I had a sniper setting at a good range and was lining up a killing shot when he blast me off the roof I was sitting on.
If not lowering the damage vs infintry atleast make it accuracy fall off enough to miss infintry but not enough to miss vehicles that way only blind luck could allow them to shoot me off a building better than my sniper could. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:my.issue with this came up when I round a corner in biomass and started putting rounds into a heavy, then he plasted me with his forgegun while I was moving around shooting. Another time was when I had a sniper setting at a good range and was lining up a killing shot when he blast me off the roof I was sitting on.
If not lowering the damage vs infintry atleast make it accuracy fall off enough to miss infintry but not enough to miss vehicles that way only blind luck could allow them to shoot me off a building better than my sniper could.
I can say personally that both those shots are much less of a guaranteed kill if he missed that first round and you responded to him. Both those time you were basically a static dot to him which is a good chance of a forge kill, strafing when you see a forge gunner at irregular intervals (random stair shape like movement) is the best defense against snipers and forge gunners. The other thing you have to remember is forge guns only have 20 rounds at the most and can only get more at nanos and supply depots. If you can blow the supply depots you see much less forge gunners and snipers out of the sheer fact they dont want to pay 1k isk a shot. Food for Thought |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Avenger, your concern is proper, but it's misdirected. The reason they are good against infantry right now is not because they do too much damage; It's because this update gave them a pinpoint accurate reticle making it **** easy to aim them. If you can aim a breach shotgun, you can use the forge gun to instagib infantry.
Forge gun needs its old reticle back and the screen shake needs to actually matter again. It's too easy to pick off a moving infantry with the forge gun. Right now the reticle is dead accurate and the screen shake while charged is completely easy to ignore and does not affect your aim at all. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 20:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
From the dev blog about infantry weapons. Just to clear up how the forge gun works.
Heavy Weapons
Heavy Weapons are a different animal altogether. They can only be wielded by those skilled enough to use heavy dropsuits which immediately makes them a more specialized choice. They also tend to utilize a high amount of dropsuit power grid and CPU systems making them unsuitable if you favor a more GÇ£generalistGÇ¥ approach to your weapon and equipment load out. They are however devastating in the right hands. Nowhere is this more evident than in the DCMA S-1 Forge Gun. This Caldari built ordnance is an incredibly powerful anti-material weapon with only one purpose, engaging and destroying hostile Heavy Attack Vehicles, a job at which it excels.
Caldari DCMA S-1 Forge Gun
Adapted from Deep Core Mining Inc.GÇÖs proprietary technology, the DCMA S-1 subverts conventional expectations of what a man-portable anti-material weapons platform is capable of. Despite its excessive weight and extended recharge times, the GÇ£Forge GunGÇ¥ as it has become known, is regarded as the most devastating infantry weapon on the battlefield, and an invaluable tool for those capable of wielding it.
Powered by a GeminiGäó microcapacitor, the Forge Gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s, enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems. During the pre-fire charge, the forward armature locks into position, stabilizing the magnetic field and helping to shield the user from backscatter and the excessive heat produced. Power generation remains the single largest drawback of the current design, the onboard capacitor requiring a significant amount of time to reach full power after each discharge.
Specifications
Designation: DCMA S-1
Variant: Standard
Length: 135cm
Weight (loaded): 58.4kg
Weight (unloaded): 55.1kg
Max. effective range: 1,200m
Ammunition: Solid-state
|
|
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:my.issue with this came up when I round a corner in biomass and started putting rounds into a heavy, then he plasted me with his forgegun while I was moving around shooting. Another time was when I had a sniper setting at a good range and was lining up a killing shot when he blast me off the roof I was sitting on.
If not lowering the damage vs infintry atleast make it accuracy fall off enough to miss infintry but not enough to miss vehicles that way only blind luck could allow them to shoot me off a building better than my sniper could.
I like the wording... Forge Guns have a 60% accuracy rating, plus they fire at wherever the shaken cursor is pointing at release, so hitting a sniper IS blind luck. I have emptied an entire Forge attempting to hit a sniper, then reloaded and pasted him with the 5th shot. He had 4 blasts whiz by him, and he DIDN'T MOVE ONCE, either because he was completely mental, or he banked on the inaccuracy of the Forge. The 40% err rating makes it more likely that Forge Guns will accidentally smash into a fellow your aren't exactly aiming for, than if it had perfect accuracy and missed every time because of shake. Some examples from my escapades include; Shooting the gunner out of a dropship, shooting a man 3 feet to the right of the man I was aiming for, pasting a guy while attempting to splash near his feet, shooting the driver out of an LAV (I laughed so hard at that one), shooting a guy off to the left instead of the structure I was aiming at, missing a dropship and killing a tower sniper, the list goes on.
Lemme put it simple: We can't nerf luck. We take videos of it and post them on Youtube after the NDA allows us. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 21:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
He pegged me a higher end of medium range, I cant move without having to deal with sniper sway so I sat there and figured that there was no way a FG could take out my armored advanced assualt suit in one shot even of he could get shoot me from 35ish meters. He did both that wasnt luck that was to much accuacy for a anti vehicle weapon |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 21:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:He pegged me a higher end of medium range, I cant move without having to deal with sniper sway so I sat there and figured that there was no way a FG could take out my armored advanced assualt suit in one shot even of he could get shoot me from 35ish meters. He did both that wasnt luck that was to much accuacy for a anti vehicle weapon 35m is not the high end of medium range. I do not know where you are from but in case you are unfamiliar with the metric system that is approximately 37-38 yards. It is not very far at all especially considering the forge gun has a range of 1200 meters. If you are trying to snipe at that range you are doing it wrong get up run and pull out a different weapon to rush him just don't run straight. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:The forgegun is a AV weapon it should cause major damage to vehicles and yes it should kill a tank in 4 or 5 shots. However the forge gun is not an anti infintry weapon and should do less damage against infintry. The forge gun should also not be a long range weapon, it should have a accuracy fallout at medium range.
So damage vs vehicles is good Should do less damage vs dropsuits Should have less accuacy(as in cant even hit dropsuits at mid range but can still hit the much large vehicles at mid range)
The machine gun needs some help it is supposed to be a anti-infintry weapon at mid and short range so increase is damage r find some otger way to improve it.
More damage
Forge guns work on kinetic energy, try firing a 3" tungsten rod at the ground next to a guy at hyper velocity. It will disintegrate you.
That said, getting a kill on infantry with the forge gun is harder then you think.
The forge gun is actually pretty balanced right now IMO. In fact, the standard forge gun is almost slightly underpowered versus the higher tier vehicles. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
The forge gun is supposed to have anti-infantry abilities - it's just not expressly for that purpose.
The swarm launcher will have its replaced as well once they work out the missile behavior and the friendly damage so they actually die when they shoot at the ground. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |