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[Request] Sub-machine guns.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ilafey 29	Posted - 2012.07.27 06:51:00 - [1] - Quote CCP can you please somehow balance sub-machine guns out in this game? They can beat ANY gun in a 1v1 and that just shouldn't be possible with a side-arm.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.27 08:23:00 - [2] - Quote Don't go CQC with an Assault Rifle, and SMGs won't kill you when you're playing to their strengths.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.07.27 08:35:00 - [3] - Quote ilafey wrote: CCP can you please somehow balance sub-machine guns out in this game? They can beat ANY gun in a 1v1 and that just shouldn't be possible with a side-arm. SMG is a 1000RPM monster in close range and with pretty low recoil. But when it comes to engaging targets at medium or long distance, it becomes really weak. Besides isn't shotgun, FG and HGM even more dangerous on close range. Most of my kills with smg are AR-assaults or scouts but when against someone with HMG i'll usually get my ass kicked if I am alone or don't get a drop on him. Besides it's already balanced as top-tier weapons require heavy amount of CPU to work so to have say.. Prototype swarmlauncher and SMG with decent dropsuit mods you'll need hefty amount of CPU.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.27 10:05:00 - [4] - Quote I never rely on my smg. I have it as a sidearm on all my loadouts. On my AV, I only use it at CQC. I usually use my AR first, on my AR loadout, and then when I run out of ammo, switch to SMG. It's not OP - very often, my SMG acts as the backup/finishing weapon to my AR. Or just defense, like on my AV loadout. That means when I switch to the smg, they're already out of shields and halfway into armor.
Baron Rittmeister Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2012.07.27 22:47:00 - [5] - Quote as many know, i'm a religious smg user. While it fits in the sidearm slot, that doesn't mean it should be so ineffective that it can't compete with other weapons. As other weapons, out of the box the smg sux and you have to put a lot of sp ( I have several million invested) in order for them to be relied on as main weapons. Like the second poster said, you bring an ar to an smg fight and wonder why you lose. You never see anyone with a proto pistol, but if they put the sp into I bet they could tear up and someone else would come on the forum and say it needs to be balanced. The items and tactics that are most often employed ( re's, creodron, dropship crushing) are usually the ones that need to be looked at and smg's certainly don't fall into that category.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:20:00 - [6] - Quote SMG's are fine. They suck compared to assault rifles at first, and lots of skills need to be invested in them to be useful. Plus the SMG's range is pretty terrible. If SMG's were less effective, or not a sidearm, they wouldn't be worth it. If SMGs were primaries, they would need twice as much default range to be useful.
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:24:00 - [7] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Don't go CQC with an Assault Rifle, and SMGs won't kill you when you're playing to their strengths. I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor... maybe if someone made a subgun that fired .500 S&W Mags and all you have is like a single-shot .22
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:24:00 - [8] - Quote Greetings, ilafey wrote: CCP can you please somehow balance sub-machine guns out in this game? They can beat ANY gun in a 1v1 and that just shouldn't be possible with a side-arm. Wow, this statement is wrong on so many levels. In this game, any weapon should be able to beat any other weapon in a 1v1 situation... It is just a matter of playing to the strengths and weaknesses of those weapons. My SMG will often beat an AR at 3 - 20 meters, but at about 21 meters and beyond that AR will clean my clock every single time. At 3 - 20 meters, I will make a HMG look like it is in slow motion, but if I stop or slow down for any reason that HMG will turn me into so much paste. In fact at 50 meters a SL with a nanohive can shoot at me all day until he kills me and I can't do a thing to him with my SMG. No, SMG's are about the most balanced of the hand held weapons right now. If you are dying to them too often, then you are doing something wrong. Like trying to dance with them or bunny hop around them.
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:26:00 - [9] - Quote Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor Ummm, the SMGs, like Shotguns in this game fire plasma bursts... They are not firing projectiles.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:34:00 - [10] - Quote Someone needs to nerf these assault rifles. I pour shot after shot with my SMG at 40 meters and they take no damage while they just killijimate my face off. LOL NO DISREGARD I SUCK C***S

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:37:00 - [11] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor Ummm, the SMGs, like Shotguns in this game fire plasma bursts... They are not firing projectiles. Actually they're Minmatar weapons, so they are very low-tech, not plasma. Still, even low-tech stuff by futuristic "thousands of years in the future" setting is probably much superior than our most high-tech weapons. This is irrelavent though, balance is what's important, and SMGs are fine.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:37:00 - [12] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor Ummm, the SMGs, like Shotguns in this game fire plasma bursts... They are not firing projectiles. SMG's and HMG are kinetic Shotguns and AR are hybrid. Scramblers are energy. Forge guns are win.
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:42:00 - [13] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor Ummm, the SMGs, like Shotguns in this game fire plasma bursts... They are not firing projectiles. And? We're talking about a society that can clone you on the molecular level and who has giant spaceships with forcefields and inertialess drop sistems that allows a soldier to drop from any height but ******* ablative composite materials is beyond their proficiency? Look, I can deal with weapons and armor in the EVE Universe being total and complete bullshit lacking any kind of sense, just don't try and justify that to me with unreasoned excuses that don't even make sense in-universe let alone out.
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.07.27 23:46:00 - [14] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Actually they're Minmatar weapons, so they are very low-tech, not plasma. Still, even low-tech stuff by futuristic "thousands of years in the future" setting is probably much superior than our most high-tech weapons. This is irrelavent though, balance is what's important, and SMGs are fine. Man, it's amazing to me that the different factions of New Eden all used their advanced technology to make armor that can survive the entirety of a doublestacked rifle magazines and apply the same level of technology to SMGs, but that it seems to never occurred to them to apply these super advanced technologies to make their assault rifles better and do more than bounce off people like ******* spitballs.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.28 00:30:00 - [15] - Quote Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Actually they're Minmatar weapons, so they are very low-tech, not plasma. Still, even low-tech stuff by futuristic "thousands of years in the future" setting is probably much superior than our most high-tech weapons. This is irrelavent though, balance is what's important, and SMGs are fine. Man, it's amazing to me that the different factions of New Eden all used their advanced technology to make armor that can survive the entirety of a doublestacked rifle magazines and apply the same level of technology to SMGs, but that it seems to never occurred to them to apply these super advanced technologies to make their assault rifles better and do more than bounce off people like ******* spitballs. Open market Get calculator Look at assault rifle damage, and magazine size to calculate damage per magazine. Look at total HP of different dropsuits Calculate how many of a certain kinds of suit you can kill with one magazine. You will see how greatly you are exaggerating. Assault rifles are not weak, and nowhere close to weak. They are great range and versatility. SMG's are meant for close range, so of course they would be better than AR's at close range, but keep in mind SMG's are almost useless when you get out of close range while assault rifles are generally useful in most ranges.
Kitt 514 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 94	Posted - 2012.07.28 02:09:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly, I think that SMG's are the most ballanced weapon in the game. Next to forge guns,
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.07.28 03:46:00 - [17] - Quote Baron Rittmeister wrote: as many know, i'm a religious smg user. While it fits in the sidearm slot, that doesn't mean it should be so ineffective that it can't compete with other weapons. As other weapons, out of the box the smg sux and you have to put a lot of sp ( I have several million invested) in order for them to be relied on as main weapons. Like the second poster said, you bring an ar to an smg fight and wonder why you lose. You never see anyone with a proto pistol, but if they put the sp into I bet they could tear up and someone else would come on the forum and say it needs to be balanced. The items and tactics that are most often employed ( re's, creodron, dropship crushing) are usually the ones that need to be looked at and smg's certainly don't fall into that category. Goddamn youre a beast with that SMG. Yesterday, after a round of awesome teamwork with me and you (I was healing you) we ended up against each other in Ambush, and you literally ran circles around my Heavy.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.28 04:04:00 - [18] - Quote Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Don't go CQC with an Assault Rifle, and SMGs won't kill you when you're playing to their strengths. I don't know of any other game, setting, or even reality where a submachinegun would ever be more useful in a straight up gun fight where both sides have body armor... maybe if someone made a subgun that fired .500 S&W Mags and all you have is like a single-shot .22 In every competently-balanced game, SMGs pour out heavy DPS with high rate of fire to balance their lower per-shot damage. They're MEANT to be highly destructive in CQC, but MUCH weaker at range. The only reason you're not used to seeing this is because you're playing games where your character's health is gone in under a second regardless of weapon, and DUST isn't like that. High-damage low-health combo tends to reduce the value of high-dps weapons, because EVERYTHING is high-dps.
Baron Rittmeister Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2012.07.28 12:48:00 - [19] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Goddamn youre a beast with that SMG. Yesterday, after a round of awesome teamwork with me and you (I was healing you) we ended up against each other in Ambush, and you literally ran circles around my Heavy. Thnx Icy, for the heals and the compliment. After the near 5 mil alone I've put in the smg and it's sidearm upgrades I would hope I can do some damage with it. That's the point though, it's only that good because I put so much time into it.


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