DUST Search - Reasons why the missile launcher should be changed

J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:

GoD-NoVa wrote:

Missile launchers are very frustrating because they are very strong and can be equipped to any vehicle
-The rate of fire is extremely fast
-The Splash damage is high
-There is no cool down timer

How to fix this (in my opinion)
-These weapons should have some sort of cool down or reload feature
-The splash damage should be much lower
-They should have an ammo count indicator like the guns do, and should have about 3-5 rounds b4 they need to reload
-The missiles should fall when traveling great distances, forcing the gunner to aim above the target in the distance to hit it

Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it.

Thx

How to fix this: my feedback.

1. Sure, why not.
2. Not so sure about that. Possibly there could be HE and AV variations?
3. Sure, why not.
4. That would add some more skill. However, missle launchers are kind of erratic aim wise right now, especially when the dropship is in motion.

I disagree on the paragraph. If you fit your dropship to be a deadly air vehicle, then that is your choice. I think that dropships are simply a variable mobile air platform, allowing for many uses. Such as troop insertion/ extraction, being a mobile gunship, recon, or support/logi.

However, changing it so you must FIT it to become a airborne weapons platform would be a more logical choice, especially since the free militia dropship is one of the more annoying ones due to its availability.

No arbitrary limitations. Dropships are versatile. Just make the missile launcher more balanced.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
GoD-NoVa 16	Posted - 2012.07.26 05:46:00 - [1] - Quote Missile launchers are very frustrating because they are very strong and can be equipped to any vehicle -The rate of fire is extremely fast -The Splash damage is high -There is no cool down timer How to fix this (in my opinion) -These weapons should have some sort of cool down or reload feature -The splash damage should be much lower -They should have an ammo count indicator like the guns do, and should have about 3-5 rounds b4 they need to reload -The missiles should fall when traveling great distances, forcing the gunner to aim above the target in the distance to hit it Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it. Thx
HowDidThatTaste 461	Posted - 2012.07.26 05:58:00 - [2] - Quote I agree it doesn't make any sense when you get shot behind a box with two walls and and roof, and call it splash damage. I could understand if it hit a wall behind you or to the side and actually splashed but it confounds me sometimes how it feels you just get shot through the walls. And of course unlimited ammo with no heat build up is unfair to hmg guys just on principle.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.26 07:18:00 - [3] - Quote Do you guys have any AV skills?
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.26 07:34:00 - [4] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Missile launchers are very frustrating because they are very strong and can be equipped to any vehicle -The rate of fire is extremely fast -The Splash damage is high -There is no cool down timer How to fix this (in my opinion) -These weapons should have some sort of cool down or reload feature -The splash damage should be much lower -They should have an ammo count indicator like the guns do, and should have about 3-5 rounds b4 they need to reload -The missiles should fall when traveling great distances, forcing the gunner to aim above the target in the distance to hit it Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it. Thx i disagree tanks r a problem to regular people just as they would be in real life the camping is the issue with the dropship not the launchers since they can spam an objective tanks r easy enough to kill if u focus on them just as u would need to focus on killing players and the splash damage isnt too much ive escaped a lot using cover if u r out in the open u will get killed easy by players or tanks
GoD-NoVa 16	Posted - 2012.07.26 08:13:00 - [5] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Do you guys have any AV skills? ^both of you do not understand ^ #1 Dropships can fly around buildings to get rid of swarm launchers, and if 3 dropships are in the air, how am i supposed to get a lock on when 3 dropships (each having 2 gunners) are constantly firing upon us. #2 Tank drivers are weak in this game, all they do is drive in circles. you cant get a good lock on if all they do is drive in circles and under pipes and buildings #3 The AV equipment only does a certain amount of damage, even tho the vehicles get stronger and stronger with increased AV resistance. #4 If you the only guy on your team trying to take out 5 vehicles, then your screwed and finally #5 Vehicles should be used for supportive fire or transport, not a means to get kills and go 50-0. Last time i checked invincible vehicles didn't drive around killing everyone to win real life wars, soldiers did.
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.26 12:43:00 - [6] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Rhadiem wrote: Do you guys have any AV skills? ^both of you do not understand ^ #1 Dropships can fly around buildings to get rid of swarm launchers, and if 3 dropships are in the air, how am i supposed to get a lock on when 3 dropships (each having 2 gunners) are constantly firing upon us. #2 Tank drivers are weak in this game, all they do is drive in circles. you cant get a good lock on if all they do is drive in circles and under pipes and buildings #3 The AV equipment only does a certain amount of damage, even tho the vehicles get stronger and stronger with increased AV resistance. #4 If you the only guy on your team trying to take out 5 vehicles, then your screwed and finally #5 Vehicles should be used for supportive fire or transport, not a means to get kills and go 50-0. Last time i checked invincible vehicles didn't drive around killing everyone to win real life wars, soldiers did. soldiers get more kills in real life (assuming u find killing in real life a good thing to destroy a massive amounts of people like terrorist think) because the tanks make people get the hell away and follow orders take a look at **** videos the tanks in game kill people because people dont hide they stand right in front of them most of the time trying to shoot at them :P but as for #4 u r right most people play games like CoD and in this game u cannot do that u need supportive roles just as much but most FPS games promote kills rather than support so we r very disconnected from how real war works and deaths dont mean much in these games because u can never truly die so people act stupid
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.26 14:59:00 - [7] - Quote i agree with people acting stupid, but maybe the missile launcher on a tank could have a longer reload/recharge time between slavos.
Baron Rittmeister Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2012.07.26 15:09:00 - [8] - Quote agreed. lower RoF, splash dmg and give it a falling trajectory. I've taken out plenty of vehicles, but the times i've rolled in them if they have missiles then it's easy mode full on.
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.07.26 16:39:00 - [9] - Quote I agree with Nova, also vehicles have have infinite ammo. They should have to resupply just like the rest of us, either the supply depos or nano hives.
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.26 17:37:00 - [10] - Quote Baron Rittmeister wrote: agreed. lower RoF, splash dmg and give it a falling trajectory. I've taken out plenty of vehicles, but the times i've rolled in them if they have missiles then it's easy mode full on. Falling trajectory on a rocket propelled guided missile makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe if they were artillery... Missiles today fly straight at their target, not falling, I think that in the far future of New Eden, they would be able to do at least as well.

Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.26 18:18:00 - [11] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Rhadiem wrote: Do you guys have any AV skills? ^both of you do not understand ^ #1 Dropships can fly around buildings to get rid of swarm launchers, and if 3 dropships are in the air, how am i supposed to get a lock on when 3 dropships (each having 2 gunners) are constantly firing upon us. #2 Tank drivers are weak in this game, all they do is drive in circles. you cant get a good lock on if all they do is drive in circles and under pipes and buildings #3 The AV equipment only does a certain amount of damage, even tho the vehicles get stronger and stronger with increased AV resistance. #4 If you the only guy on your team trying to take out 5 vehicles, then your screwed and finally #5 Vehicles should be used for supportive fire or transport, not a means to get kills and go 50-0. Last time i checked invincible vehicles didn't drive around killing everyone to win real life wars, soldiers did. I agree that proto missile launchers are strong, they're prototype vehicle class weapons and should be strong. In all of your points, the primary issue I see is you don't have enough skilled AV guys in the game. I play 80% AV with prototype swarm launcher in a scout suit. I've killed Sagaris, Surya, Eryx and Prometheus vehicles, and I know the challenges. Many games I'm the only AV guy there aside from the occasional courageous militia Swarm Launcher guy (which does help some). I've solo killed these vehicles too, and yes some are really hard to kill, if impossible solo. More AV guys are needed. 1 guy shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle containing 3 players. I think the AV grenade changes will help infantry be useful in this.
Leovarian L Lavitz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 278	Posted - 2012.07.27 04:10:00 - [12] - Quote I think the vehicles are very balanced on the Communications map. The current skirmish map (Plateaus) is a vehicle centric map, it is wide open, many straight and paved roads, plenty of perches for drop ships and plenty of large cover for tanks. Small Missile turrets are the anti-infantry turret. The anti-vehicle turret are the small blasters, and the in-between turret are the rail-guns. Most kills in any game are from assault rifles, not vehicles. Most vehicles can be easily killed with a forge gun. I know, I have had marauders hiding from my forge. ;)
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.27 06:15:00 - [13] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I think the vehicles are very balanced on the Communications map. The current skirmish map (Plateaus) is a vehicle centric map, it is wide open, many straight and paved roads, plenty of perches for drop ships and plenty of large cover for tanks. Small Missile turrets are the anti-infantry turret. The anti-vehicle turret are the small blasters, and the in-between turret are the rail-guns. Most kills in any game are from assault rifles, not vehicles. Most vehicles can be easily killed with a forge gun. I know, I have had marauders hiding from my forge. ;) This. Rock complains that Paper beats it down senselessly, while endlessly slaughtering weaker rocks and Scissors. Balance to a Rock is Rock beats Paper and Scissors.
Tobaml 5	Posted - 2012.07.27 06:56:00 - [14] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it. Thx The dropship is abused nowadays because there are no other aircrafts. I n the full game they will do their role as support unit.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.27 08:31:00 - [15] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: #4 If you the only guy on your team trying to take out 5 vehicles, then your screwed Basically, this is the core problem. Your team aren't working together to take down the enemy vehicles. If you have 3 dropships, even if NONE of them have even one gunner, you have 1/4 of the enemy team in vehicles. If they have a tank as well, that's probably half the team in a position where your team needs to be running AV against them. If you're the only one running AV against 6 players worth of vehicles, that's not your fault. It's the fault of your teammates not supporting you.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.07.27 15:29:00 - [16] - Quote A team's AV capabilities have nothing to do with the OP's point. The point is that missile turrets are jokingly overpowered compared to the rest of the turrets. The missile which is designed to explode, does more direct damage than a charged railgun that propels a round at over 7000m/s (Or something stupid fast like that). At proto level the missile does 455 direct damage and around 260 splash at 5 meters if memory serves. The railgun does 375 direct at prototype level, has barely a footstep worth or splash radius (At something like 28 splash damage) Missile turrets are simply too good. They need their splash radius cut in half and their direct + splash damage dropped. The only alternative is giving massive buffs to the other turrets, which isn't really called for, because then every turret would simply be overpowered and broken. Except maybe blaster turrets, They need some serious love. All railguns need is to be able to store their charge.
Iceyburnz 316	Posted - 2012.07.27 17:01:00 - [17] - Quote Large Missile Turret is fine. Its the small one thats OP/imba/rolfcakes.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.27 17:14:00 - [18] - Quote Compared with other small turrets, Missiles are flat-out superior for anti-infantry, and much easier to use vs. other vehicles. Blasters and Railguns are technically able to put out more damage when used optimally on a stable firing platform, but because of how movement affects things, and because of the complete absence of control you have over shot direction when moving, the 5m blast radius trumps EVERYTHING.
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.27 17:46:00 - [19] - Quote Greetings, Because various DS yahoos have told me that I don't what I am talking about in regards to DS vs Swarm Launchers, I have recently started driving a DS... It is fun putting into practice what I have been tell these yahoos. ;) Anyway, unlike most of the DS yahoos, I am using railguns on one of my DS and missiles on the other. What I am finding is that when I run the railguns, I have a very hard time keeping gunners and when I do get them, they complain that my guns don't work. When I have my missiles (militia missile launcher BTW), I get gunners who want to stay with me the whole game. Often times these players score somewhere in the 3 - 4 kills for the battle. As an aside, I have done the same thing with a HAV and gotten similar results. Garrett Blacknova wrote: Compared with other small turrets, Missiles are flat-out superior for anti-infantry, and much easier to use vs. other vehicles. Yes they are much easier to use, if the target and platform are both stationary, but when either one are in motion, I am finding that Rail guns are the much better choice. Because I have a hard time getting gunners when I am using my rails, I have gotten a lot of practice with them lately. I am finding that my militia rail gun is allowing me to gain and maintain air superiority and even some air dominance versus LAVs and HAVs. Quote: Blasters and Railguns are technically able to put out more damage when used optimally on a stable firing platform Blasters are IMO severely broken at present. Blasters are short range, very high RoF - pinpoint weaponry. Unfortunately Dust, at present does not support to the pinpoint accuracy. Because of this Blasters fail miserably at their primary role... Anti-Infantry. Ideally, Dropships would be using Blasters, Gunships would be using rail guns and, and Attack ships would be using missiles, but until the platform stabilization is added and accuracy is fixed, most DS pilots will simply put missiles on their ships. :(
Average Joe81 57	Posted - 2012.07.27 17:56:00 - [20] - Quote +1 to nova

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.27 17:59:00 - [21] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Quote: Blasters and Railguns are technically able to put out more damage when used optimally on a stable firing platform Blasters are IMO severely broken at present. Blasters are short range, very high RoF - pinpoint weaponry. Unfortunately Dust, at present does not support to the pinpoint accuracy. Because of this Blasters fail miserably at their primary role... Anti-Infantry. Ideally, Dropships would be using Blasters, Gunships would be using rail guns and, and Attack ships would be using missiles, but until the platform stabilization is added and accuracy is fixed, most DS pilots will simply put missiles on their ships. :( After being advised to experiment more, I've actually learned that Blasters are the best AV weapon to fit on a tank - their pinpoint accuracy makes them MORE reliable than Missiles in this situation, but also impacts negatively on their ability to handle enemy infantry.
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.07.27 18:14:00 - [22] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Rhadiem wrote: Do you guys have any AV skills? ^both of you do not understand ^ #1 Dropships can fly around buildings to get rid of swarm launchers, and if 3 dropships are in the air, how am i supposed to get a lock on when 3 dropships (each having 2 gunners) are constantly firing upon us. #2 Tank drivers are weak in this game, all they do is drive in circles. you cant get a good lock on if all they do is drive in circles and under pipes and buildings #3 The AV equipment only does a certain amount of damage, even tho the vehicles get stronger and stronger with increased AV resistance. #4 If you the only guy on your team trying to take out 5 vehicles, then your screwed and finally #5 Vehicles should be used for supportive fire or transport, not a means to get kills and go 50-0. Last time i checked invincible vehicles didn't drive around killing everyone to win real life wars, soldiers did. Forge gun my son. Forge gun.
GreasyFinger Bumsticker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 23	Posted - 2012.07.27 19:59:00 - [23] - Quote i must agree using your AV skills is the best way to deal with missile ships...cook off and beast av grenade watch the points fly :)
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.07.27 20:31:00 - [24] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Missile launchers are very frustrating because they are very strong and can be equipped to any vehicle -The rate of fire is extremely fast -The Splash damage is high -There is no cool down timer How to fix this (in my opinion) -These weapons should have some sort of cool down or reload feature -The splash damage should be much lower -They should have an ammo count indicator like the guns do, and should have about 3-5 rounds b4 they need to reload -The missiles should fall when traveling great distances, forcing the gunner to aim above the target in the distance to hit it Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it. Thx How to fix this: my feedback. 1. Sure, why not. 2. Not so sure about that. Possibly there could be HE and AV variations? 3. Sure, why not. 4. That would add some more skill. However, missle launchers are kind of erratic aim wise right now, especially when the dropship is in motion. I disagree on the paragraph. If you fit your dropship to be a deadly air vehicle, then that is your choice. I think that dropships are simply a variable mobile air platform, allowing for many uses. Such as troop insertion/ extraction, being a mobile gunship, recon, or support/logi. However, changing it so you must FIT it to become a airborne weapons platform would be a more logical choice, especially since the free militia dropship is one of the more annoying ones due to its availability. No arbitrary limitations. Dropships are versatile. Just make the missile launcher more balanced.
Dilectus Himmel Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.27 20:33:00 - [25] - Quote i agree with most: the speedy firing should be interrupted now and then to refill the "box". By the way a box would be a better model than the present "missile gun" imo. A bit like for the larger turret (but one instead of two and probably more squarish). Also would it be possible to have targeted missiles like the swarm launchers? Sure against infantry and tank just spamming rocket and torpedoes (sorry for the eve ref) might be ideal but dropships are a pain when the pilot know his job even a little. Still only able to lock on vehicules of course. It would be great to use a large turret as a AA. Also, as an idea for modules; anything that would made the lock on time on yourself longer.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.07.27 20:34:00 - [26] - Quote STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: I agree with Nova, also vehicles have have infinite ammo. They should have to resupply just like the rest of us, either the supply depos or nano hives. This. Vehicles should have a high amount of ammo, but need resupplied like anything else. Possibly there could be vehicle specific supply depots, or you could fit a resupply nanohive on your tank/dropship/LAV at the expense of weapons capacity. A mobile supply depot.
Dilectus Himmel Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.27 20:40:00 - [27] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: GoD-NoVa wrote: Missile launchers are very frustrating because they are very strong and can be equipped to any vehicle -The rate of fire is extremely fast -The Splash damage is high -There is no cool down timer How to fix this (in my opinion) -These weapons should have some sort of cool down or reload feature -The splash damage should be much lower -They should have an ammo count indicator like the guns do, and should have about 3-5 rounds b4 they need to reload -The missiles should fall when traveling great distances, forcing the gunner to aim above the target in the distance to hit it Personally i believe that the dropships should not be used as deadly air vehicles because they should be used as a means for transport. Dropping people off behind enemy lines and/or getting them out of the line of fire should be the main task for a dropship. It is hard to defend or attack an objective when vehicles from both air and ground have missiles that kill in 1-3 shots from splash damage. They can have defense weapons sure but they should not be this over powered. I am really enjoying this game you guys are changing the future of games as we speak, things like this will only ruin it. Thx How to fix this: my feedback. 1. Sure, why not. 2. Not so sure about that. Possibly there could be HE and AV variations? 3. Sure, why not. 4. That would add some more skill. However, missle launchers are kind of erratic aim wise right now, especially when the dropship is in motion. I disagree on the paragraph. If you fit your dropship to be a deadly air vehicle, then that is your choice. I think that dropships are simply a variable mobile air platform, allowing for many uses. Such as troop insertion/ extraction, being a mobile gunship, recon, or support/logi. However, changing it so you must FIT it to become a airborne weapons platform would be a more logical choice, especially since the free militia dropship is one of the more annoying ones due to its availability. No arbitrary limitations. Dropships are versatile. Just make the missile launcher more balanced. About the variations: should be great in a future patch or extension to add ammo. Not in the same way as in EVE online but like "weapons mods" that would allow to customize certain variables. Think the subject came relatively often.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.27 20:49:00 - [28] - Quote Reduce the range of 'rockets' and that should fix it.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.28 07:31:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Reduce the range of 'rockets' and that should fix it. Reduce the range of the only self-propelled projectile? :)
Encharrion L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 104	Posted - 2012.07.28 08:44:00 - [30] - Quote There appears to be some confusion about the roles of the turrets, so I am going to share what my opinions on the turret roles are, and then I will suggest how to fix the imbalance of the missile turret vs the other turrets. Now, a higher impact damage will result in better anti-vehicle capability, while a higher splash damage will cause a increased effectiveness to infantry targets. Why? Larger targets (ie. vehicles) are easier to hit, meaning that there will be fewer near misses and more direct hits. Smaller targets (ie. infantry) are much harder to hit directly, resulting in fewer hits and more near misses. From this, clearly, missiles should be the best against infantry, and it shouldn't be too hard to get the missile in the correct area to deal splash damage. The missiles splash damage should be high compared to it's direct damage, and the missiles travel time should make it more difficult to get direct hits. These 2 factors combined should make missiles ineffective against vehicles. Railguns are long range anti vehicle weapons, because of the high direct damage and instant travel time, with lower splash. The low fire rate and charge time limits the anti-personnel abilities of the weapon, but the splash damage should give the weapon at least some ability to kill infantry. Blasters are close range high damage weapons. The blasters appear to have no splash damage or a nearly non-existent splash radius (I need to check that) and have a high fire rate. The lack of splash damage makes applying damage to infantry difficult, but the high fire rate makes up for it somewhat. The high damage at close range and high fire rate means that blasters should be especially effective against vehicles at close range. I don't believe that the problem with the missile launcher is that it is too effective, I think the problem is that the other small turrets are too ineffective against infantry, seeing as you are more likely to encounter a soldier than a tank at any particular time. The other turrets need to have their anti-infantry capabilities improved, so that they are not useless when facing enemy soldiers, but not so much that they edge in on missile's anti-infantry role. TL;DR: Missiles are anti-infantry, other turrets are better at vehicles, more infantry than vehicles, therefore other small turrets are somewhat useless and nerfing missiles won't suddenly make them useful, other turrets must be made at least somewhat useful against infantry.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page