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Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
   |
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Your website does not work, so I'll just comment here on how CCP plans to make DUST514 an e-sport:
(This is what the developers said on fanfest)
DUST will eventually have a battle mode called "gladiator arena" and in this arena, players will fight with a set of rules. This allows equal items and only player skill to matter. Or who thought of a better fitting for a battle, etc.
Now the brilliant part: EVE players (and normal ones too, I guess) can place bets on the results of gladiator battles. Imagine an e-sport that is not only an e-sport, but an actual sport within a game within a game. Crazy good idea :D |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 18:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
mandrill the red wrote:@ Fuma Centuri: Seems to be working for everyone else, try clearing your browser cache. From my understanding of the presentations at FF (I was there and spoke to a few of the Devs) The Gladiator Arena is not set in stone as yet. I know I'm biased but I reckon my way would better integrate the E-Sports side of Dust into the universe. Thanks for yr feedback though :D
The website loaded a few minutes later after I posted. I believe I just clicked it so early it wasn't yet published fully hence the error.
If gladiator arenas are not yet in the official plans, then that is sad.
As for your vision: I very much dislike the idea of broadcast rights. Why would any station owner or whatnot bother with people asking for 1,00,000 ISK per match if there will be random folks fighting and asking only 10 ISK for it?
The only thing that will be good in gladiator matches is betting. Watching the match should be free because nobody will watch your match anyway if it's for money. The true income for gladiators will be:
A) Set % profits of bets placed - The official CONCORD-sanctioned betting mechanic which guarantees that if you bet X on player A and he wins, you will get your money. You could still make bets between players and omit the fees, but it won't guarantee fair dealings :)
B) BRIBES! - Also known as sponsorship. For example funding your gear for the battle so you will surely win. Or lining your pocket with money if they want you to die in the third round, making for an unexpected twist.
Broadcasts should be free, the money should come from people motivating you to win/lose and from the bets placed on you through CONCORD. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
dust badger wrote:yeah i cant see how they can stop people rigging this
It's the same way with alliance tournaments. There is no way to prevent people from rigging the results.
I don't want betting to be shady. Betting on gladiators needs to be NPC-controlled. This is the only way to guarantee a fair cut of the earnings to the gladiator himself. Broadcast rights are crap and a dime a dozen (and also should be free) compared to earning a percent of the whole bets pool. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 10:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
mandrill the red wrote:[quote=Fuma Centuri]Dust is an offshoot of EVE. Corruption, underhandedness, Machiavellian machinations, and meta-gaming are part of the universe. Get used to it and start practising, The big alliances in EVE have had a decade of practice and unless you're ready they will completely dominate the Dust E-Sports scene, whatever form it might take, by fair means or foul.
CCP's attitude is that as long as it doesn't violate the ToS and EULA (hack the client, exploit a known bug, etc etc) that it's fair game. You're going to have to get used to that in Dust as well.
There may well be an official and legitimate channel for betting, but this does not preclude there being an underground culture for it. Makes life in New Eden more interesting, and more interesting is more fun.
Did you even read my posts?
Let me quote the relevant bits from them:
Quote:The true income for gladiators will be:
A) Set % profits of bets placed - The official CONCORD-sanctioned betting mechanic which guarantees that if you bet X on player A and he wins, you will get your money. You could still make bets between players and omit the fees, but it won't guarantee fair dealings :)
B) BRIBES! - Also known as sponsorship. For example funding your gear for the battle so you will surely win. Or lining your pocket with money if they want you to die in the third round, making for an unexpected twist.
Quote: Betting on gladiators needs to be NPC-controlled. This is the only way to guarantee a fair cut of the earnings to the gladiator himself.
My point is that broadcast rights for sale will and should not be the main income. People don't want to pay for television shows in real life, why pay for shows inside video games? Betting is where the money will come from for gladiators which are not taking bribes. The only way to encourage random players to bet on random matches for fun is to make betting NPC controlled. This eliminates risk of fraud and gives people an entertaining past-time activity while also rewarding gladiators. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. Simply, no.
Betting needs to be official and legal. Without that there is pretty much no chance for "little league" gladiators to have any way to profit. This way they can randomly get some viewers that bet money and 1% or something gets sent the gladiator's way.
Grey area can still exist for people who want to skip the transaction fee. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
First, I'll lay out some of my assumptions about what the gladiator arena should IMO be:
- Accessible to every player, regardless of affiliation, friends, corps, money, skill, etc.
- Generate enough income that a player with completely basic gear will earn a profit (low compared to normal contracts, but a profit nonetheless) when they win.
With your vision of broadcast rights as the only guaranteed income source, the above statements will not be fulfilled. In EVE have a lot of choice, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want and enjoy it. In DUST there is (and probably never be) not a lot of choice and preventing people from enjoying some activities because they are profitable only as long as you meet arbitrary criteria is bad game design, IMO.
I'm not asking for carebear protection, I just want people who know how to fight to be rewarded in the game with money (the universal incentive) and have fun without requiring meta-game sheningans.
By "official and legal" I meant CONCORD or somesuch NPC organisation, let's say the Gladiator Arena Betting Enterprise. The only function of GABE is to provide a mechanism of safely placing bets and safely receiving rewards, while giving gladiators a cut of the money. If there's a fight between A and B, you bet 10k on A (I have no method of automatically calculating odds that can't be exploited, so let's skip it) and somebody bets 10k on B. GABEs function here will be to pay out 20k (minus a small percentage processing fee and gladiator reward) nothing more and nothing less.
The existance of GABE will guarantee that as long as somebody bored in EVE finds your match in the list of matches that are about to start/ongoing and places a bet, you will earn some ISK upon victory.
With broadcast rights, you would need to meta-game and advertise how nice your battles are so that someone buys them. With GABE you just enter a fight and worry about nothing. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have nothing against the idea of optionally making the match pay-only to view to ensure some additional profits to the participants. I do, however, want people to have a choice to play this way or that way and earn money regardless of choice. If someone wants to be a gladiator without EVE friends to back him, he should be able to do it and make some money.
That's why I want something like GABE that lets random people bet on random games and guarantee payouts to all parties (except the losers).
A different approach which could better co-exist with your vision would be:
Force gladiators to bet money on themselves. In order to enter battle, one must bet the same amount as the opponent. Whoever wins takes it all.
This also sidesteps the problem of nobody in EVE caring about small battles thus not paying to view it or betting on it. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
mandrill the red wrote:Everything is optional, that was the general idea of the original concept. To create systems and mechanics which widened the options available to both Dust and EVE players. None of it would be compulsory, just as taking and holding 0.0 space as part of a big alliance in EVE is optional.
There is nothing forcing you to go 0.0, but there are some aspects of the game that are specifically tuned to groups, like exploration. This is a personal example since I wanted to be an EVE explorer. Back when I started, the whole thing was extremely tedious and took over ten minutes per scan to do, and the rewards weren't much.
Now with wormholes, exploration has become much more exciting, but it's impossible to do alone. You cannot have an exploration ship fitted with probes that can at the same time solo any wormhole encounters. So while I technically have choice, it is impossible for me to actually do wormhole exploration alone. Doing it in groups is forced on me.
As such. I do what I can to voice my concerns about forcing anything on the player in DUST. I won't mind people doing metagame selling of broadcasts deals with other people and doing stuff related to the game outside of the game. They should get more rewards for putting more effort, but in no case should it be that a player who chooses not to bother, will be unable to use this feature at all, because without an audience they won't earn anything.
Quote:I still get the feeling that we're talking at cross-purposes. Your concern is the micro-economic scale of the individual player, mine is at the macro scale of how an entirely new entertainment industry could be introduced to New Eden.
I think you are right, but the micro-scale concerns me much more greatly and dearly than some grand economic scheme I have no interest and time to care about :)
vermacht Doe wrote:I think it should involve a third person melee system to differ it from regular combat. To give people a good chance without having to be the best in dust/eve
No. You will simply have selectable rules for the arena.
Like for example: No gun. No REs. No knives. No jumping. Fox only. Final destination. |
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