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Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 14:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I do not expect them to rep as much to keep me alive during the fight like they can in Eve but even between fights they seem almost worthless to me. |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
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Posted - 2012.07.21 14:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
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Posted - 2012.07.21 14:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:I do not expect them to rep as much to keep me alive during the fight like they can in Eve but even between fights they seem almost worthless to me. armor rep RR and self reps are never on the same lv with shields this is becuz armor has more rest then sheilds from playing eve for sometime now i can tell you the self rep is fine and were it should be |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful
What I find strange is that a proto heavy suit still only has 2 lower slots
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Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Adun Red wrote:I do not expect them to rep as much to keep me alive during the fight like they can in Eve but even between fights they seem almost worthless to me. armor rep RR and self reps are never on the same lv with shields this is becuz armor has more rest then sheilds from playing eve for sometime now i can tell you the self rep is fine and were it should be
If you want to compare this to eve lets do that.
You are telling me a dual rep armor tanked ship is comparable with a dual rep heavy suit? 1st we need to say there are no passive armor reps in eve that I know of. They are all active. Even the passive shield reps in eve are way better than the passive armor rep in dust IMO. I do not see it as fine at all. I speak as a proto heavy.
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Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful
Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO.
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Darky SI
232
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful What I find strange is that a proto heavy suit still only has 2 lower slots yeah and the complex one rep only 5 per second which is insignificant compared to the 1000+ hp armor on heavies |
Majin Vejeta
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO.
+1 You've kinda got a point there. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO.
You have to take into account if you're buffing the armor reps that you should not make four armor reps on a assault suit overpowered. Buffing them by simply increasing the hp/s would make those four on the assault suit overpowered in my opinion.
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41WAYS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.07.21 15:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Darky SI wrote:Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful What I find strange is that a proto heavy suit still only has 2 lower slots yeah and the complex one rep only 5 per second which is insignificant compared to the 1000+ hp armor on heavies
its actually 6.25 with the skill upped to lvl 5. or 12.5 for 2 complex. |
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Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 16:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO. You have to take into account if you're buffing the armor reps that you should not make four armor reps on a assault suit overpowered. Buffing them by simply increasing the hp/s would make those four on the assault suit overpowered in my opinion.
Make fitting reqs to where ya can not use 4 at same time but make them useful IMO. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.21 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
my lvl 4 goes up 2 % every second or whatever it is.
seems fine but i'm on scout suit, not much armor to rep |
Shrator Dram'Dur
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.07.21 16:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's unfortunate that it's all down to armor whether you survive or not. However, I've noticed the heavy suits have a lot more mid slots than low slots. So, I think that your main line of defense will be buffer shield tank, with shield regen mods. If you take armor damage, well, one armor repairer will get you back up (eventually). The heavy suits are not armor tankers.
I hope that gallente will get a heavy suit varient, those will be armor tankers you can bet your life on it.
As a quick edit, I have found out that if you switch out suits via a resupply depot, it heals you all the way back up. So, switch out to assault at the resupply depot, and switch back to your heavy.
As a second edit I just want to note that I use an Advanced Logistics suit as my primary, with two plates, one armor repper. the repper seems to do pretty good, even with roughly 300 armor HP. Of course, I do also have a repair nanohive as well as the remote repair gun so I'm not to concerned about it any longer. The militia suit I had no armor plates and the armor repair module, it worked well and would heal me up between engagements.
I think it's just the heavy is meant to work with logistics support. |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 16:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shrator Dram'Dur wrote:It's unfortunate that it's all down to armor whether you survive or not. However, I've noticed the heavy suits have a lot more mid slots than low slots. So, I think that your main line of defense will be buffer shield tank, with shield regen mods. If you take armor damage, well, one armor repairer will get you back up (eventually). The heavy suits are not armor tankers.
I hope that gallente will get a heavy suit varient, those will be armor tankers you can bet your life on it.
As a quick edit, I have found out that if you switch out suits via a resupply depot, it heals you all the way back up. So, switch out to assault at the resupply depot, and switch back to your heavy.
As a second edit I just want to note that I use an Advanced Logistics suit as my primary, with two plates, one armor repper. the repper seems to do pretty good, even with roughly 300 armor HP. Of course, I do also have a repair nanohive as well as the remote repair gun so I'm not to concerned about it any longer. The militia suit I had no armor plates and the armor repair module, it worked well and would heal me up between engagements.
I think it's just the heavy is meant to work with logistics support.
After the huge nerf to HMG you almost have to use 1 or 2 DPS mods on the highs IMO. Using high slots for only tank is not as feasible to me. I mean, These are amarr heavy suits. They should be able to armor tank.
Your right. If you go deep into armor early in the match and never engage again in the match your armor will eventually go back up. |
Zeran Haggai
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
196
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO. You have to take into account if you're buffing the armor reps that you should not make four armor reps on a assault suit overpowered. Buffing them by simply increasing the hp/s would make those four on the assault suit overpowered in my opinion. Make fitting reqs to where ya can not use 4 at same time but make them useful IMO.
They pretty much do this already in the form of stacking penalties. Each consecutive mod of the same type becomes less effective, off the top of my head the numbers go something like this
1- 100% 2-87% 3-50%
4-28%
so more than 2 is kind of questionable in terms of effectiveness, and 4 is just a waste of a slot really.
Now that being said, i agree the dropsuit reps are a bit underpowered atm, especially for a heavy who's only option is to armor tank. The problem is, they way they work now, if you increas the armor/s too much then it becomes OP on the higher shield/shield recharge assault and scout suits. My personal solution would be to make the rep's % based. so instead of 5 points of armor per second you could do like 2%/s. In this way it would be balanced in that all classes would rep to 100% in the same amount of time, and it would give people who want to armor tank a viable way to recover HP after a tough battle. As it stands now, as a heavy if i wan't to rep back any meaningful amount of armor i gotta spend 2-3 min hiding out. Meanwhile shield tanking Assault and Scout suits can disengage combat and rep shields in a matter of seconds. |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zeran Haggai wrote:Adun Red wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Adun Red wrote:jenza aranda wrote:4 complex armour reps on a proto assault suit is actually quite powerful Saying that it takes 4 armor reps to do it kinda proves my point IMO. You have to take into account if you're buffing the armor reps that you should not make four armor reps on a assault suit overpowered. Buffing them by simply increasing the hp/s would make those four on the assault suit overpowered in my opinion. Make fitting reqs to where ya can not use 4 at same time but make them useful IMO. They pretty much do this already in the form of stacking penalties. Each consecutive mod of the same type becomes less effective, off the top of my head the numbers go something like this 1- 100% 2-87% 3-50% 4-28% so more than 2 is kind of questionable in terms of effectiveness, and 4 is just a waste of a slot really. Now that being said, i agree the dropsuit reps are a bit underpowered atm, especially for a heavy who's only option is to armor tank. The problem is, they way they work now, if you increas the armor/s too much then it becomes OP on the higher shield/shield recharge assault and scout suits. My personal solution would be to make the rep's % based. so instead of 5 points of armor per second you could do like 2%/s. In this way it would be balanced in that all classes would rep to 100% in the same amount of time, and it would give people who want to armor tank a viable way to recover HP after a tough battle. As it stands now, as a heavy if i wan't to rep back any meaningful amount of armor i gotta spend 2-3 min hiding out. Meanwhile shield tanking Assault and Scout suits can disengage combat and rep shields in a matter of seconds.
You would not need to fit 4 on a assault if they did this already ) Either reduce cycle times or up the amount repaired please.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
When you're down to taking armour damage, you need to take cover (unless you're full armour tanked with 4 reps on a Proto Assault, as mentioned.
Or you need a repair tool. I haven't tested it myself, but a few people have said that you can repair yourself with them, so if that's legit, pick one up. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
It would be much more effective imo if they gave infantry armor resistance plates as well. Until then it almost more sensible to have 4 armor reps vs armor rep/plate combo. With a resitance plate it would be more of a resist, resist, plate/biotic, armor rep |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:When you're down to taking armour damage, you need to take cover (unless you're full armour tanked with 4 reps on a Proto Assault, as mentioned.
Or you need a repair tool. I haven't tested it myself, but a few people have said that you can repair yourself with them, so if that's legit, pick one up.
As a heavy I know all about using cover. Thank you for the advice though. Id rather them fix armor repairers then just ignore using them. |
Zeran Haggai
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
196
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:When you're down to taking armour damage, you need to take cover (unless you're full armour tanked with 4 reps on a Proto Assault, as mentioned.
Or you need a repair tool. I haven't tested it myself, but a few people have said that you can repair yourself with them, so if that's legit, pick one up.
Not possible for a heavy, no slot for it. We only have 130 base shield and 15 shield recharge, armor is all we got. If I retreat everytime I start taking armor damage, I'll never fight. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.21 18:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
I haven't played enough as a Heavy... I forgot you guys don't get equipment slots.
Yeah, being unable to effectively armour tank as the class that's built for it would kind of suck.
I'll agree on this.
Or maybe when we start seeing special gear for each suit (NOT exclusive, but with huge PG/CPU requirements and huge bonuses to equipping on the intended suit type), there will be some Heavy Armour Repairers that are difficult to equip on anything but a Heavy. That way, the current Reppers are fine because they're balanced for the lighter suits, but if you want more, there's an option for you. |
Zeran Haggai
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
196
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Posted - 2012.07.21 18:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I haven't played enough as a Heavy... I forgot you guys don't get equipment slots.
Yeah, being unable to effectively armour tank as the class that's built for it would kind of suck.
I'll agree on this.
Or maybe when we start seeing special gear for each suit (NOT exclusive, but with huge PG/CPU requirements and huge bonuses to equipping on the intended suit type), there will be some Heavy Armour Repairers that are difficult to equip on anything but a Heavy. That way, the current Reppers are fine because they're balanced for the lighter suits, but if you want more, there's an option for you.
I'm not really familiar with all the types of gear available in EvE, but if that kind of stuff is going to be available in Dust then maybe the current reps are fine. I hope we get all the gear that's going to be available soon, not having all the options present makes discussing balance difficult/borderline pointless. Then again at this stage of beta gear balance isn't the main focus so i suppose we just need to be patient and let them get us to a stage where we can accurately judge. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
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Posted - 2012.07.21 19:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
@ Adun red.
Nope. |
Shrator Dram'Dur
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.07.21 20:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yeah I'm hoping that suits will get bonuses to certain modules or module types. That's how ships are balanced in Eve. Sure, you can fit anything you want on the ships, but they won't be as effective as using what the ship has bonuses for. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
i don't think you can repair yourself with a repair kit. or if you can, i haven't figured out how to do it.
but the fact that repair kits and repair nano-hives EXIST, makes me lean towards no so far as buffing the passive self reppers. logi-bros need MORE stuff to do, not less. not to mention that this is one of the major counterbalances to the heavy suit. armor being harder to come by, and them relying so heavily on it. granted right NOW the heavy suit is fairly weak, but if ccp were to fix the weapons... |
Debo Galaxy
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have more of a medical logi. Nanite Injector / Nano Hive / Triage Repair Tool. I basically got objectives or where the battles at and toss down a (R) nano hive. These rep armor and ammo. The I either use my repair tool and look for heavy's or try to get one revive.
They should make the repair nano hives glow a different color , so people know why I'm throwing it down. |
Shrator Dram'Dur
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
the repair tool can, supposedly, heal you. You just hold the fire button without targeting anybody and that's how it works. I haven't gotten to try it yet. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think they work fine |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.07.22 02:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shrator Dram'Dur wrote:the repair tool can, supposedly, heal you. You just hold the fire button without targeting anybody and that's how it works. I haven't gotten to try it yet.
this does actually seem to work. i didn't catch it at first because theres absolutely NO feedback in the ui that it's actually working.
but sure enough, i happened to be super low on armor and thought to try this, and my armor restored way faster than it normally self reps. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.22 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
I managed to get a chance to test this today too.
Self-repair works. Even with the Militia version.
And Repper Scouts are the best backup for a Heavy. Our walking speed matches their sprint, so we can keep pace and still repair them while they're panicking and fleeing from battle because half the enemy team came around the corner. |
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Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.22 04:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I managed to get a chance to test this today too.
Self-repair works. Even with the Militia version.
And Repper Scouts are the best backup for a Heavy. Our walking speed matches their sprint, so we can keep pace and still repair them while they're panicking and fleeing from battle because half the enemy team came around the corner.
You tested this on a heavy suit? Which one and what lows did you have? I never said they do not work. I said they are under powered. The reps are a glaring problem IMO. Even more so after heavy suits got the nerf bat along with the HMG. It seems like we would have to wait for half a match with not taking any damage to rep up even half our armor. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.07.22 04:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
no you misunderstand, we're talking about repairing yourself with the repair kit gear item. we weren't sure if it would work because the UI gives no indication as to wether it is or not.
so it's not passive, it's active. you swap to the kit and "shoot" yourself with it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.22 04:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adun Red wrote:You tested this on a heavy suit? Which one and what lows did you have? I never said they do not work. I said they are under powered. The reps are a glaring problem IMO. Even more so after heavy suits got the nerf bat along with the HMG. It seems like we would have to wait for half a match with not taking any damage to rep up even half our armor. No, I tested self-repairing with a Logi suit and Repair Tool.
But I also found out that a Scout can keep up with a Heavy while repairing him. My normal run speed is more than their sprint speed.
I think the Militia Repair Tool is only 25 HP per tick, and it feels like it. It was about 10 seconds to fully repair a near-dead Heavy, and I don't know his suit's specs except to say that he had NO repairers fitted at all. |
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