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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.07.20 20:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I know we all love things that go fizzzz BOOOM. I've noticed everyone fitting up their vehicles with small missile launchers. These things hit hard, never reload and have quite a high rof. I'll save you my whining and give you a simple example.
St-1 missile launcher 350 damage 200 splash 5.0 blast radius 37rpm Meta1
Mass driver 225damage 115splash 60 rpm 4 SECOND RELOAD 3.0m blast radius Meta1
St-201 missile launcher (the large one, HAV only) 150 damage (x4=600) 80 splash (x4=320) 24 rpm (x4=96) 8.0m radius Meta1
I think the rate of fire should be brought in line with the large missile OR blast radius be decreased to that of a mass driver. Currently it is more devastating in many ways than the large missile, and we all know the mass driver just doesn't get a look in. Heck, reduce it to mass driver standards all round and make the missiles wiggle around like an RPGEEE! People wanted RPG elements in the game lol. Opinions? Any drivers/pilots not using small missiles? |
Iceyburnz
316
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Posted - 2012.07.20 20:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
The small missile turret is horribly overpowered. Rails have a tiny pixel to aim with, which btw is also is your margin for error. The only gun to have an advantage over small missile turrets are blasters; which are good for pouring fire onto fast moving dropships.
To clarify: Only fit missile turrets. Unless your dropship is an anti dropship dropship , then fit blasters. Railguns have too many negatives to bother with. EG: tiny tiny cone of fire, the implication of which is the tiniest movement can make you miss; and charge time.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.20 20:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I say blasters need have the largest blast radius as well. or at least tracers maybe not so much damage from the blast but none the lest best hit capable turret.
Railguns need to do the most damage period. Have thier blast radius severly reduced.
Missiles should be the go between of the two medium damage medium blast radius. |
Ayures0
259
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Posted - 2012.07.20 21:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you put guns on your tank or dropship, I am not getting in the damn thing. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.07.20 21:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say blasters need have the largest blast radius as well. or at least tracers maybe not so much damage from the blast but none the lest best hit capable turret.
Railguns need to do the most damage period. Have thier blast radius severly reduced.
Missiles should be the go between of the two medium damage medium blast radius.
Blasters have the largest blast radius? No. They're meant to be high ROF, low damage. They're the SMG of the vehicle world, whereas railguns are the sniper rifles.
Missiles... I don't know where they fit into that analogy. I rarely see anything but missiles fitted on any vehicle nowadays. I'd like to see a HAV with a missile turret and small blasters. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.20 21:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Railguns are good for AV-focused tanks. But if you load up on them, you'll need infantry support to handle good AV infantry. Railguns on anything except a tank are a bad idea, though, because it gets INSANELY hard to aim them. If you're parking up to fire, they're decent AP weapons as well, but not particularly reliable against GOOD infantry, who will keep moving erratically.
Blasters are good for AP, and GREAT for area denial. Rapid-fire turret weapons aren't hugely powerful, so they suffer a bit in AV combat, but they can still hurt. The fact that they don't have the massive one-shot damage of other turrets makes them SLIGHTLY less viable than missiles when you're specifically after kills, but if the target isn't running from you and hiding, they die, which means you can CONTROL ENEMY MOVEMENT with them. They're great for defending a capture point after hacking, because they prevent the enemy from approaching, giving the hack time to complete even if you don't get any kills while holding the enemy off.
Missiles are good all-round, but particularly for AP with the high splash radius and decent damage. The big advantage with missiles is that they're REALLY EASY TO USE. They're better AV than Blasters, but not as dangerous as Railguns. If you notice that you're getting shot with Railguns, it's probably time to start the repper or run away.
I've been riding in quite a few tanks lately, and I'm getting a feel for the differences between the weapons. I'm not great with aim, and tend to rely on my ability to not die more than my ability to make the other guy dead, so Missiles are a distinct preference for me most of the time. I'm not bad at AV Railgun use though - I've succeeded more than I've failed while running in Railgun tanks. |
Tristan Kauls
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
36
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Posted - 2012.07.20 21:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think they are quite OP as of now. Could also be the render distance of dropships what makes them seem so powerfull i never know where they come from. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.20 23:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Small missile turrets are ideal for dropships, since you are often not close up for blasters, and aiming a railgun on the move would be nearly impossible. I'm horrible at those things in a stationary tank..
It'll balance out more when dropships are hovering around, moving, rather than sitting idly on towers sniping. They're harder to aim when the dropship is moving. Comparison to the Mass Driver (which I would love to see get buffed) isn't fair, it's in another class weapon, and does damage accordingly.
Vehicle dps > Infantry dps |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.07.21 00:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Blasters have the largest blast radius? No. They're meant to be high ROF, low damage. They're the SMG of the vehicle world, whereas railguns are the sniper rifles.
Hand weapon analogies just complicates things. Blasters are supposed to be anti-infantry, railguns anti-vehicle, missiles as something in between. Blasters will never be good for killing infantry unless their damage is upped severely (which might obsolete railguns), or they're given a blast radius to compensate for the difficulty hitting a moving target in a moving vehicle, or more likely, a mix of both. And it'd help if missiles were nerfed as well, if only their blast radius.
One other thing that might go a ways toward balancing these things out is ammunition supply. If railguns were given relatively limited ammunition, missiles a bit more, but blasters had a good supply of ammo, it might help to make people less likely to spam missiles or use their railguns to kill infantry. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.21 02:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Blasters are not currently anti-infantry, they dont do enough damage let alone hit ever. They also overheat way to much to do the proper adjustments. Also swing speed of turret blasters is way to fast for any attempts to accurately nail infantry.
If anything they're anti aircraft. Blasters in eve takes a hybrid charge and predetonates them in a magnetic bubble before slaging it down range where its more of a shotgun pattern It may be wouldnt so bad if a blaster acted like a giant shotgun with some reach. Infantry would get hurt but have a chance to run off but over open field with no cover no chance, and those in partial cover would then not get damaged as much allowing them to take it out or take a peek.
Railguns works backwards from blasters in which they send the same bullets blasters use down range without predetonating it, They let the shell impact with the object do this as well as the magnetic bottle dumping into the target as well. They should be used for bombardment and anti-vehicle.
Missile Launchers need a slight nerf maybe not sure, would rather have the other two guns usefulness brought to its level instead. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.21 03:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Blasters are not currently anti-infantry, they dont do enough damage let alone hit ever. They also overheat way to much to do the proper adjustments. Also swing speed of turret blasters is way to fast for any attempts to accurately nail infantry.
If anything they're anti aircraft. Blasters in eve takes a hybrid charge and predetonates them in a magnetic bubble before slaging it down range where its more of a shotgun pattern It may be wouldnt so bad if a blaster acted like a giant shotgun with some reach. Infantry would get hurt but have a chance to run off but over open field with no cover no chance, and those in partial cover would then not get damaged as much allowing them to take it out or take a peek.
Railguns works backwards from blasters in which they send the same bullets blasters use down range without predetonating it, They let the shell impact with the object do this as well as the magnetic bottle dumping into the target as well. They should be used for bombardment and anti-vehicle.
Missile Launchers need a slight nerf maybe not sure, would rather have the other two guns usefulness brought to its level instead. Problem with blasters not doing their job is at least partly based on hit detection, but I agree they tend to be good anti-air weapons. But if you're good with a Railgun, you can quite often hit harder than with Blasters against flying targets as well.
I like the shotgun suggestion though - maybe if they make the projectiles fragment at a certain range so they travel as a single blast for a short distance then turn into a lower-damage shotgun-like spread? It sounds like it would fit the lore about how they work, AND give players something a little less ordinary to play with. |
Zull Calcon
Doomheim
3
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Posted - 2012.07.21 05:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
We all need to remember CCP hasn't released Laser, Autocannon, Or Artillery yet. So until they do we should keep in mind we are only playing with half the turret options right now. Always remember this game is Beta as ****. |
Roldrage
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2012.07.21 08:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zull Calcon wrote:We all need to remember CCP hasn't released Laser, Autocannon, Or Artillery yet. So until they do we should keep in mind we are only playing with half the turret options right now. Always remember this game is Beta as ****.
Yeah, it's not quite good enough for 5 stars. |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
32
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Posted - 2012.07.21 08:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Railguns; hard as hell to hit anything with, doubly so with the aiming bugs (shots going extremely wide whenever the vehicle turns at all). their damage is nice, but with no splash you really just have to get lucky to hit anything. also there's no real projectile animation so it's hard to adjust your aim based on where it's hitting.
Blasters; decent, but have a rather severe lag time for something that's supposed to be instant travel. their damage falloff is hilarious. supposed to be anti infantry but due to aiming difficulty, nope.
Missiles; absolute god mode. prototype versions have so much splash and basically infinite range. one shot almost anyone with a direct hit, two or three shot with splash. very easy to fire even while the vehicle is moving around. also the ROF is bugged, it's supposed to be like 2 seconds, but if you time your shots it fires every second. try holding the fire button down next time, it fires once every 2 seconds as it should
most of the problems with the other turrets is thanks to the aiming bugs, hit detection, and general lag.
1) fix hit detection, blasters should be instant travel 2) fix whatever is causing shots to go super wide when firing while the vehicle is turning 3) extend the blaster falloff, probably double or so. a damage boost would be welcome as well 4) increase the railgun splash, but give it enormous falloff, so you basically need to hit either them or their feet 5) fix the missile rate of fire as once every 1.5 seconds or so, reduce their damage, but keep the splash
so, TL;DR; fix the aiming problems and tweak the damage and things will fall in line
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.07.21 08:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
The direct damage of the small missiles needs to be toned down dramatically. As of right now they completely overshadow the small railguns for AV and AP. The splash damage could also probably be lowered a bit, but they I worry about them becoming useless at any role. |
Yun Vulgaris
8
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Posted - 2012.07.21 08:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Add ammo counts to vehicles, with a default onboard ammo regeneration rate(low and dependent on weapon type). Upgradeable through modules.
Missles get least ammo, Railguns 2nd, Blasters 1st. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
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Posted - 2012.07.21 08:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hard ammo restrictions on vehicles would be nifty, but also each projectile weapon should have a reload time after a certain number shots - especially the small missile turret. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 11:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
We need them to use ammo and not have an infinte amount in all turrets since it just means epic missile spam for the entire game
So that means adding a cargohold to all vehicles and making them buy ammo
Also maybe have the turrets only hold a set amount of ammo before they are forced to reload |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 11:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:We need them to use ammo and not have an infinte amount in all turrets since it just means epic missile spam for the entire game
So that means adding a cargohold to all vehicles and making them buy ammo
Also maybe have the turrets only hold a set amount of ammo before they are forced to reload
This ^ + 1 |
Zerlathon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2012.07.21 11:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Any non energy based weapon should have an ammo count as far as vehicles are concerned, then have the primary spawn holding an ammo replenishing station for vehicles and infantry.
That's my opinion anyway... |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.07.21 12:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Some good points all round. IMHO the comparison between a mass driver and a missile launcher is valid. I agree vehicles should do more damage, but really 10m explosions every 1.6 seconds is silly. We all know the Mass driver is under powered in comparison. Really, drop shops should have their firing angles nerfed beyond belief. Whoever decided to let them point directly down is a tit.
I would agree with adding a reload, even if they had infinate ammo. If they do get ammo, supply depots need to reload them. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
157
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Posted - 2012.07.22 04:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Blasters don't really need a damage buff. Their problem is the fact that if your bead isn't on the target directly, you're never going to land a hit.
Instead, make the blaster a little less accurate. Rather than a stream onto one spot, make it act almost like an AR by giving it a bit of a cone to fire in. I'll leave it up to you guys to determine how big the cone is, but yea, would work SO MUCH better than it is now.
As for missiles, yea, they're pretty OP. Shooting straight down I don't mind so much (little bastards hovering over my tank), but we do need a better draw distance and the ROF is definetly too high.
Railguns... I hope that these things get some use when grouping rolls out. These things have the potential to be very useful, but all anyone cares about in these public matches are their K/D, and missiles / blasters kill people better than rails. |
Septem Mortuus
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2012.07.23 03:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
They need to fix the issues with firing while moving, especially in dropships.
No, I don't mean I need to get better at hitting things, I mean when the ship is in flight, you line up and fire and the darn thing shoots off at a 45 degree angle to where you're aiming, usually outside the line of flight also. It's not momentum, which I could live with, but like it's fired from the wrong position somehow.
Basically makes using anything but missiles for ground-work untenable. Even with missiles you have to hover to allow your gunners to get off accurate shots.
Although I have found blasters very decent for dog-fighting against other Dropships. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 04:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Septem Mortuus wrote:They need to fix the issues with firing while moving, especially in dropships. No, I don't mean I need to get better at hitting things, I mean when the ship is in flight, you line up and fire and the darn thing shoots off at a 45 degree angle to where you're aiming, usually outside the line of flight also. It's not momentum, which I could live with, but like it's fired from the wrong position somehow. Basically makes using anything but missiles for ground-work untenable. Even with missiles you have to hover to allow your gunners to get off accurate shots. Although I have found blasters very decent for dog-fighting against other Dropships. If you're a gunner on the HAV, this happens in very specific situations. When the tank body is turning, the front-mounted gun has REALLY screwy firing directions, and when the main turret is turning, the secondary gun on top fires on the wrong angle. It always throws your shots further in the direction of the turn, but it makes no sense to do so.
Dropship shots are a little less predictable/consistent, but are also HEAVILY affected by movement, If you're hovering, there's little to no problem with aiming, and if you're moving fast, there's almost always something going wrong. Don't even think about trying to hit something on purpose while turning. |
Skold Hagradsson
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Missiles need to have shorter range, Dropships/HAV/LAV on towers spamming missiles is a real pain in the ass, particularly when the draw distance prevents a visual.
The missiles being fired are going to be more akin to rockets with a small propulsion unit, infinite range is not logical. An alternative could be to have two types of missile, Anti vehicle = no splash, or seriously reduced range and damage to around a meter, (basically a sabot round) high direct damage. Anti infantry that explodes on a timer say after 50-60 meters to bring it in line with blaster, heavy machine gun range, the damage equally spread over an area. the damage is also too high, too much direct damage far too much over a wide area. Missiles need to reload. That should be similar to Eve is now with reload times and sizes of magazines for ammo based guns (although rail tech should logistically carry more ammo than Projectile or missile
Rail guns need a larger splash area or higher splash damage. Less than a meter, it simply is not enough for a solid lump flying at hyper sonic speeds. Blasters are meant to be high damage, close range, the shot gun idea seems sensible, this would also give them that spread over pin point accuracy, which makes them impractical as door guns.
I think the idea of vehicles having ammo supplies like infantry is a good one. Maybe having the supply depos acting as their resupply points would add more strategy than vehicles simply blowing them up (even the ones at their own lines) which currently happens. I think turrets can be dropped in at a later stage so I would expect the depos to be supplied in a similar way, by troops on the ground. Alternatively, they could have a in built nano hive so that the tank will run out of ammo eventually, until the nano is switched on to replenish the ammo situation, rather than being able to camp a spawn point indefinitely as long as its physical tank holds up, it then adds a logistical tank too.
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TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Iceyburnz wrote:The small missile turret is horribly overpowered. Rails have a tiny pixel to aim with, which btw is also is your margin for error. The only gun to have an advantage over small missile turrets are blasters; which are good for pouring fire onto fast moving dropships. To clarify: Only fit missile turrets. Unless your dropship is an anti dropship dropship , then fit blasters. Railguns have too many negatives to bother with. EG: tiny tiny cone of fire, the implication of which is the tiniest movement can make you miss; and charge time. No they are hard enough to use when being a gunner and it's very difficult to find a good pilot to keep the ship steady.
The skill of the pilots and gunners should be rewarded with kills. DONT GIVE IN CCP, develop the game like you want to. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 17:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jog on breakage! Your really having trouble hitting people with a 10m diameter blast? CCP listen to breakage. Ignore EVERYOTHER post here. He clearly has 1337 aim. |
TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 17:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Jog on breakage! Your really having trouble hitting people with a 10m diameter blast? CCP listen to breakage. Ignore EVERYOTHER post here. He clearly has 1337 aim. Get in a dropship turret with the average dropship pilot and tell me how much fun you have, really. Besides, it's a missile, it's supposed to be deadly.
I've been a dropship pilot this whole build, and I let me tell you, the majority of gunners have a very hard time of killing people even when I give them a few seconds of staying still. They may seem overpowered to you on the ground when you get killed with a lucky or skilled gunner, but they are actually difficult to use. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
I woudlnt mind having missile range nerfed. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
TotalBreakage wrote:Tony Calif wrote:Jog on breakage! Your really having trouble hitting people with a 10m diameter blast? CCP listen to breakage. Ignore EVERYOTHER post here. He clearly has 1337 aim. Get in a dropship turret with the average dropship pilot and tell me how much fun you have, really. Besides, it's a missile, it's supposed to be deadly. I've been a dropship pilot this whole build, and I let me tell you, the majority of gunners have a very hard time of killing people even when I give them a few seconds of staying still. They may seem overpowered to you on the ground when you get killed with a lucky or skilled gunner, but they are actually difficult to use.
No they are not
They are so easy to use
Just spam in the general direction of the enemy and it doesnt even have to be a direct hit, splash damage alone takes a good chunk of your health |
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