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Sirpidey Adtur
7
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Posted - 2012.07.18 05:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey, one of the things that irritates me about DUST, is there are skills that do NOTHING except unlock other skills. Certain levels of which do absolutely NOTHING.
A good example is vehicle command. It is used to unlock Gallente/Caldari LAV.
All training vehicle command does, is let you train another skill.
Either remove vehicle command outright, or have it do something.
Similarly, grenade level 1, 4 and 5 unlock new grenades. 2 and 3 do absolutely nothing.
Please either make these skills provide some sort of boost, or otherwise remove the dead levels from the skills.
While on the subject of skills: Every skillcost is divisible by 10,240. For the sake of making math easier, could you simply reduce this to 10,000? It will make math a WHOLE lot easier. |
Ventis Gant
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.07.18 05:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
I believe that they are slowly adding passive effects to skills (the Dropsuit Command skill had no built in effect last build, now it has that 5% to sig radius or whatever), and as far as dead levels, those are going to slowly go away as well (such as the new type II suits making one less dead level in the dropsuits skills). I'm betting that most if not all skills will have a passive effect, either built into the skill or built into the item they unlock, but they are still deciding what skills should have what effects. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.07.18 06:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
As Ventis said, the "dead" skill levels are going to get some passive bonuses down the road. For vehicle command I could easily see that with a +%5 traction and +5% speed per level.
Others don't have passive stats directly, but items will have dependencies on them via role bonuses. For instance certain vehicles will get an added bonus for a specific skill, while others don't, because the bonus is on the vehicle, and not the skill directly.
And don't forget, we are not seeing the full list of skills or market either. |
Fuma Centuri
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
The point of these "dead" skills is they make it longer to get to the thing they give. This is a balancing method.
I'm sure they will add bonuses like in EVE that are vehicle specific. For each level of vehicle command, you will get a bonus to shields in Caldari and armour in Gallente, or stuff like this. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sirpidey Adtur wrote:Hey, one of the things that irritates me about DUST, is there are skills that do NOTHING except unlock other skills. Certain levels of which do absolutely NOTHING.
A good example is vehicle command. It is used to unlock Gallente/Caldari LAV.
All training vehicle command does, is let you train another skill.
Either remove vehicle command outright, or have it do something.
Similarly, grenade level 1, 4 and 5 unlock new grenades. 2 and 3 do absolutely nothing.
Please either make these skills provide some sort of boost, or otherwise remove the dead levels from the skills.
While on the subject of skills: Every skillcost is divisible by 10,240. For the sake of making math easier, could you simply reduce this to 10,000? It will make math a WHOLE lot easier.
We've been asking that passive effects are added to those a lot of times. And some decent ideas were offered. I think this will make the cut :) |
Mr TamiyaCowboy
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
they are not dead.
the skills tree, is just like eve skills, the game is in beta so the skills tree forms and builds over time.
what your seeing is just a very small branch in a super massive skill tree setup. each skill affects a number of other skills and the players choice is key to this.
Nades 1-2-3-4-5 = possible these will not only unlock other nades to use but effect the damage and area of effect they have.
being a long term eve player with over 100 million sp, this skill tree setup is just awesome. if it uses the same template as the eve skill tree, you really have not seen nothing yet, and the way it looks to me long term skill training is going to add a twist to dusts sandbox'y gamestyle
all you need now is for players to start mapping out the basic skills, back when i started eve the first skill you trained was micro warp drives, and learning skills ( 2 months solid skill training ) just so you could gain SP at a decent speed.
there was plenty of PDF's and forum posts giving out details of certain skills a pilot would first train. and these skills had to be trained in a certain order to, to become most effective and shorten a playings training speed times
skills will always puzzle the players that have not spent time with ccp's skill training tree. but eve players are able to hand that info down via dust corps and a public dust forum section when it goes live. a little tip, the basic skills will be stuff like electronics/mechanics and likes. skills that affect the suits armor/shield/speed and the players base attributes. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
SoonTM
it'll have it's purpose. Right now it might just be a place holder.
Like our place holder remote explosives. |
Cleetus Merovee
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.07.18 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
There should be no dead levels from any skill. This is why one won't train Demolitions, Grenadier or a gob of other skills until you're ready to take the plunge to get Advanced [whatever] or Prototype [whatever].
Ideally this will be fixed on release.
Other suggestion: since the skills are already in "trees", make those trees *visible*.
Dropsuit Command III --> [athletic sounding dropsuit skills] --> [cerebral sounding dropsuit skills]
Show where one's skills can take you past the immediate future that currently shows on the character sheet. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.18 15:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think all pre-requisite that dont directly unlock stuff every level needs to have bonuses tied into it, such as vehicle command skill lowering ground vehicle signatures. Piloting the same. Ect ect. |
Mr TamiyaCowboy
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2012.07.18 21:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
i think/know they will have attributes/bonuses.
we have to remember this is a beta, its focusing really on the core parts, pewpew and the likes.
things like black skills info attributes will be added in later client release updates.
rome was not built in a day, and ccp have learned long and hard with eve, so expect things to be not set in stone with awesome info attributes in beta mode.
i think focusing on the core of dust is the main thing, exploits/bugs and the other things. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.19 03:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think I can shed some light on the use of 10,240 instead of just 10,000 - Binary. Obviously, the game is coded using binary. Numbers increase on a specific scale when working with computers, because of how binary works.
Each additional digit in a binary number mean twice as many possible combinations.
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1,024
Does that last number look familiar? No? Multiply it by 10 and you now have 10,240 - does it look familiar yet?
SPs are calculated and managed in binary. It saves them having to waste extra code on conversions. |
Armatsu
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.07.19 04:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
I haven't played eve in awhile but last i remember every single skill level did something (something more than open up a new skill that is). As of right now there aren't many skills in DUST which if you are new to the universe can be overwhelming because there are still a ton of choices the way it is.
I can see before release them adding a Certificate system similar to how they did in Eve right before i quit that essentially gives you a goal to complete. For example Novice Caldari Infantry might require Dropsuit I, Caldari Dropsuit II, Assault Rifle III, Weaponry III. It gives you a path to work for so you don't feel so overwhelmed.
As for a full tree i'm not sure if they even had one in EVE, that stuff is kind of foggy now. I do know that if you are looking for a particular weapon to use, it will show the skills that are required to use it. Same with a high level skill, it will show all of the skills needed before training that skill.
Shortly after release (or even the NDA is lifted) someone will probably come out with something like evemon (i think that was the name of the program) that will let you throw together different loadouts to see the stats on them with certain skills and will probably even include a training schedule where you can list out the skills you want to train and it will tell you the most efficient way to train them and how many SP it will take to complete it. |
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