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Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:23:00 - [1] - Quote Alright - played a few more hours and have quite a few observations and recommendations to make. 1- Spawn Camping happened on every map I have played on. 2 - Certain Weapons (Forge Gun) were one shot kills. 3 - Tanks with Railguns are the best spawn campers. My Recommendations 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. 2 - Spawn Areas should be protected - A.K.A insta-death if entered. 3 - Make Railguns harder to aim - getting hit point blank by a long range railgun isn't fair. Many others sympathize with my concerns - please make some changes.
gangsta nachos Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 377	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:26:00 - [2] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Alright - played a few more hours and have quite a few observations and recommendations to make. 1- Spawn Camping happened on every map I have played on. 2 - Certain Weapons (Forge Gun) were one shot kills. 3 - Tanks with Railguns are the best spawn campers. My Recommendations 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. 2 - Spawn Areas should be protected - A.K.A insta-death if entered. 3 - Make Railguns harder to aim - getting hit point blank by a long range railgun isn't fair. Many others sympathize with my concerns - please make some changes. no nerfs spawn needs to be fixed
counter logic BetaMax. 42	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:38:00 - [3] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Alright - played a few more hours and have quite a few observations and recommendations to make. 1- Spawn Camping happened on every map I have played on. 2 - Certain Weapons (Forge Gun) were one shot kills. 3 - Tanks with Railguns are the best spawn campers. My Recommendations 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. 2 - Spawn Areas should be protected - A.K.A insta-death if entered. 3 - Make Railguns harder to aim - getting hit point blank by a long range railgun isn't fair. Many others sympathize with my concerns - please make some changes. 1. only happens if you let it happen. There are things called spawn beacons and they help a lot 2. forge gun is only 1 hit kill if it hits you directly, which is incredibly lucky/hard to do. 3. Debatable recommendations: 1. they don't need changed at all 2. spawn areas just need to be more random and maybe more than 1 per spawn point 3. railguns are very hard to aim
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:38:00 - [4] - Quote Greetings, Ezrael Hawkins wrote: 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. Forge guns are just about perfect right now with the exception of the auto-firing of the Charge version. As I have stated in multiple threads, CCP should change the charge mechanics to be passive charge and trigger to fire, not release to fire or auto-fire when charged. Quote: 2 - Spawn Areas should be protected - A.K.A insta-death if entered. Disagree, too easy to exploit. Instead, CCP needs to fix the spawn mechanisms, but they are already aware of that and have stated multiple times that they are working on them. Quote: 3 - Make Railguns harder to aim - getting hit point blank by a long range railgun isn't fair. Disagree here as well. Railguns are supposed to be the most destructive-single target weapon in the game. They fire in a straight line and should cause anyone or anything they hit to have a bad day. Other than the broken (IMO) charge mechanic, rail guns are really well done and IMO they only turret weapon that comes close to working the way it should... Other than the charge mechanic that is.
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:45:00 - [5] - Quote Well - then change their explosion to a smaller radius - since multiple people in the game were hit head on every time by a tank. The forge gun as well....
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:46:00 - [6] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Alright - played a few more hours and have quite a few observations and recommendations to make. 1- Spawn Camping happened on every map I have played on. 2 - Certain Weapons (Forge Gun) were one shot kills. 3 - Tanks with Railguns are the best spawn campers. My Recommendations 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. 2 - Spawn Areas should be protected - A.K.A insta-death if entered. 3 - Make Railguns harder to aim - getting hit point blank by a long range railgun isn't fair. Many others sympathize with my concerns - please make some changes. 1 - Spawn camping happens if you spawn at a busy objective, or an objective the other team has targeted. The other team will be attempting to hold this objective. So you are essentially choosing to spawn in the midst of the other team. Spawns should be more randomized over the area of the objective, however, to prevent "micro" spawn camping. 2- Forge Gun is an AV weapon. It is specifically meant to kill tanks, so it does a tremendous amount of damage. It only holds 4 shots in a clip, and only 16 rounds total. It requires significant time to charge each shot, during which the reticle shakes significantly. If you are standing still, this is a problem for you. If you are moving, the forge gunner is pretty skilled/lucky. 3 - Tanks supporting infantry can cause problems, especially when said infantry has decided to go after an objective. Again, having the tank cover infantry is just a smart move. Having forced determined spawns within a small area is a bad move, and should be fixed. Moving in to attack an area being covered by the most powerful and expensive fitting in the game should be a carefully considered move.
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote Drake Lyons wrote: 3 - Tanks supporting infantry can cause problems, especially when said infantry has decided to go after an objective. Again, having the tank cover infantry is just a smart move. Having forced determined spawns within a small area is a bad move, and should be fixed. Moving in to attack an area being covered by the most powerful and expensive fitting in the game should be a carefully considered move. Yes - but when they swarm your only spawn point and constantly fire on the area where you spawn - and the only place where you can run its not fair. Also - the swarm launcher is a nice model - but it doesn't do damage worth crap. I had all 4 hit a guy and it took his shields down to half. He killed me with melee and assault rifle. That's just BS.
Dao Ferret BetaMax. 25	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:02:00 - [8] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: 3 - Tanks supporting infantry can cause problems, especially when said infantry has decided to go after an objective. Again, having the tank cover infantry is just a smart move. Having forced determined spawns within a small area is a bad move, and should be fixed. Moving in to attack an area being covered by the most powerful and expensive fitting in the game should be a carefully considered move. Yes - but when they swarm your only spawn point and constantly fire on the area where you spawn - and the only place where you can run its not fair. Also - the swarm launcher is a nice model - but it doesn't do damage worth crap. I had all 4 hit a guy and it took his shields down to half. He killed me with melee and assault rifle. That's just BS. The swarm launcher is not meant to be used against infantry, and is less effective against them. The militia swarm launcher will also be less effective against properly fitted prototype level vehicles. Against others though, it should shred militia DropShips and Tanks.
uruz7 fish FDF Industries Hedonistic Imperative 108	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:03:00 - [9] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: 3 - Tanks supporting infantry can cause problems, especially when said infantry has decided to go after an objective. Again, having the tank cover infantry is just a smart move. Having forced determined spawns within a small area is a bad move, and should be fixed. Moving in to attack an area being covered by the most powerful and expensive fitting in the game should be a carefully considered move. Yes - but when they swarm your only spawn point and constantly fire on the area where you spawn - and the only place where you can run its not fair. Also - the swarm launcher is a nice model - but it doesn't do damage worth crap. I had all 4 hit a guy and it took his shields down to half. He killed me with melee and assault rifle. That's just BS. you probably shot someone who wasn't using a militia dropship and had numerous tank mods on it, as for the spawning, its a bug and the fix is apparently making its way through the qa division
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:21:00 - [10] - Quote Shouldn't a rocket launcher kill in one shot? Like the Forge Gun and others.

uruz7 fish FDF Industries Hedonistic Imperative 108	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:26:00 - [11] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Shouldn't a rocket launcher kill in one shot? Like the Forge Gun and others. sure, unless the drop ship pilot has all the shield skills maxed, and running shield boosting equipment
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:26:00 - [12] - Quote It was a infantry soldier. I hit him and the area around him with all 4 from the swarm.
uruz7 fish FDF Industries Hedonistic Imperative 108	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:30:00 - [13] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: It was a infantry soldier. I hit him and the area around him with all 4 from the swarm. splash damage was nerfed since the swarm is primarily an anti vehicle weapon. Too many people spamming them at other people's feet, and to get a proper direct hit on something, you have to lock on, which you can only lock on to vehicles i believe
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:33:00 - [14] - Quote Spawns are a bug, a known bug, one that you can find easily if you search the forums. SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SPAWN CAMPING UNTIL SPAWNING IS FIXED! As for the rest, NO.
onlyelisha Algintal Core Gallente Federation 86	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:46:00 - [15] - Quote I can't wait for people to start complaining, saying that the ships in eve are OP when they start bombarding us.
gangsta nachos Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 377	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:51:00 - [16] - Quote onlyelisha wrote: I can't wait for people to start complaining, saying that the ships in eve are OP when they start bombarding us. They should be shouldn't they only makes sense but yeah
Khun-Al 135	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:53:00 - [17] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Greetings, Ezrael Hawkins wrote: 1 - Remove Forge Guns until they have been fixed. Forge guns are just about perfect right now with the exception of the auto-firing of the Charge version. As I have stated in multiple threads, CCP should change the charge mechanics to be passive charge and trigger to fire, not release to fire or auto-fire when charged. A passive charge would be good but the charge should be lost after every thing you cannot do with a charged forge gun. That you have to stay or just walk if you want to shoot.
Moorian Flav Ectype Inc. 20	Posted - 2012.07.11 22:20:00 - [18] - Quote 1. Agree - Known issue. CCP is trying to randomize spawning but did not work as expected. Therefore, they are now at the drawing board again with spawning. 2. Disagree - Forge guns take a while to shoot and shake violently before firing. I've only hit someone directly once with a forge cannon and that was because they were holding still 10 feet away from me. Hence, their fault. 3. Disagree - Like the Forge cannon, there is considerable power-up time involved with the Tank Railgun (although no shaking like Forge). Therefore, that is the give with the Railgun; very powerful but it takes time to power-up which makes it difficult to hit moving targets. If there is an enemy tank with a railgun on it in the vicinity, I suggest you move and keep moving.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.07.11 23:51:00 - [19] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: 3 - Tanks supporting infantry can cause problems, especially when said infantry has decided to go after an objective. Again, having the tank cover infantry is just a smart move. Having forced determined spawns within a small area is a bad move, and should be fixed. Moving in to attack an area being covered by the most powerful and expensive fitting in the game should be a carefully considered move. Yes - but when they swarm your only spawn point and constantly fire on the area where you spawn - and the only place where you can run its not fair. Also - the swarm launcher is a nice model - but it doesn't do damage worth crap. I had all 4 hit a guy and it took his shields down to half. He killed me with melee and assault rifle. That's just BS. The Swarm Launchers was -specifically- nerfed against infantry for this build. In the previous build, the Militia Swarm launcher was effectively a room-clearing tool with no risk involved. Besides, if its designed to be an anti-vehicle weapon, something like a shaped-charge would more likely be used, and those do very little splash damage.
Ray seveN Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2012.07.12 00:51:00 - [20] - Quote guessing you're new here Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Well - then change their explosion to a smaller radius - since multiple people in the game were hit head on every time by a tank. The forge gun as well.... Forge gun blast radius and splash damage has been reduced from last build. Having to nerf it again will make the gun useless. Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Shouldn't a rocket launcher kill in one shot? Like the Forge Gun and others. That's also been nerfed since last build due to swarm launcher abuse by scouts and assault. Now it is a pure AV weapon

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.12 01:08:00 - [21] - Quote I think it's worth mentioning that there's a sticky about the Swarm Launcher, and they specifically mentioned that the current fix is temporary and that it was a "brute force" fix that they intend to adjust for proper balance in time. Having a 4-shot spread of instant-death to all infantry is more than slightly OP with a weapon that's meant to be used for AV almost excclusively, though, and as a regular Swarm user, I don't have a problem with it.
Ventis Gant Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.07.12 05:31:00 - [22] - Quote Beyond the spawn camp fix that is already in the works...don't spawn to busy areas, as has been stated. If you are down to one place to spawn in skirmish, you have probably already lost. One of my greatest joys is being on the attacking team when the defenders only have the far north spawn point left available. I know people hate to hear it, but in a game where you can choose your spawn point, and usually have at least some idea of what is around the spawn point before you spawn, then spawn camping does indeed become tactical, when used to deny the enemy access to an objective. There is a difference between killing everything that spawns at B while you are waiting for the hack to complete, and just sitting at a random CRU popping anybody that happens to show up. Also, there is simply the case of bad timing. As a sniper, I often have one or more spawn points in range of my sniper's nest. I'm usually more focused on the objective, which is what I'm trying to defend..but if I happen to see a red pop up at a spawn point...well, if I can get a round on him before he can move and start making life difficult for my team, I do so.
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.12 05:53:00 - [23] - Quote I know - it just seemed to me that the Forge Gun and the Tank were primarily used for camping, they weren't even taking down other vehicles (other than the ones just called down).
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.07.12 06:27:00 - [24] - Quote Spawn camping is a fairly obvious issue that I'm sure they'll fix up. It's something that has been fixed in every Battlefield game ever by simply having random spawn points. Once they do that it'll be a non-issue. Forge guns are pretty hard to hit infantry with. Maybe if you're really close you might hit the guy, but you have basically one shot and it basically comes down to luck as the reticule is quite large and the shot could easily stray even if you're on-target. There's a pretty distinct lack of balance with vehicle turrets. Missiles are incredible. Railguns are pretty good. Blasters are awful. I'd anticipate some pretty major changes in the future, as right now a tank without a large missile/railgun turret and two small missile turrets is a gimped vehicle.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.07.12 07:56:00 - [25] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Well - then change their explosion to a smaller radius - since multiple people in the game were hit head on every time by a tank. The forge gun as well.... Forge guns are fine. They already got a splash nerf in this build, and it's working pretty well. Might still eat up scout suits if it hits near their feet, but that's the tradeoff for speed. As a Sagaris & Surya pilot, I'll agree with the splash radius. The railgun is designed as a single-target rapecannon. For some reason the splash radius actually got buffed slightly with this build. Was prefectly fine last build.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.12 08:07:00 - [26] - Quote Think of the rockets as an RPG the explosion is directional thus making it a horrible anti outside of a vehicle personel weapon. Forge guns are modified mining lasers designed to crack asteriods apart If they're good enough to blow up amageddeon sized asteriods Im sure they're overkill when it comes to blasting all the minerals out of you. Spawn Camping is bad and yes im guilty of it but it gets really hard to win sometimes. Railguns are supposed to be AV not AP so hopefully it will get fixed.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.07.12 09:26:00 - [27] - Quote They should just block spawning if spawn hacking / rebooting is in process. Spawning to defend promotes very bad play style and should be blocked or punished ( like it's now trough single spawn point). If you want to keep a spawn be sure to have few guys there to defend it from lone wolfs and other attacks and make sure no one gets to hack the system. I mean in all seriousness, if you are leaving an objective undefended until a enemy actually hacks it, you should loose the objective. Only spawn that should be relatively safe are the ones that cannot be captured by the enemy team.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.12 11:34:00 - [28] - Quote First off Drop Uplinks solve your first gripe. You invest in them, you buy them, you deploy them, you love them! They are a reason they are perhaps the most valuable equipment on the field for a defender or an attacker in a practical sense. They allow you to spawn in another place besides the default spawn locations. Same with any vehicle that has a CRU installed into it. So even if you don't use them, have a load out that does use them even if it's the militia variants because then you have options. You and your team shall thank me for it later.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.12 11:57:00 - [29] - Quote Saw something VERY interesting last weekend which I just remembered (not sure why I forgot to mention earlier). Spawn point camped by enemy tank and Forge Gunner just waiting for people to call in vehicles. And a guy spawned, called in a Militia Tank, then used it as cover while he ran away, letting it get blown up to give him a chance to move clear of the spawn and place an Uplink. Maybe more people should be coming up with plans like this?
Ezrael Hawkins Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.12 13:57:00 - [30] - Quote Forge Gunners are apparently one of the best AP weapons in the game - they are used to camp as there is only 3 spawn spots.

Enervating Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 9	Posted - 2012.07.12 14:55:00 - [31] - Quote Get smarter about where you're spawning. I'ts that simple. Railguns are easy to aim? hop into the milita tank and give it a shot. Forge guns are OP? again, skill to them and try them out. I saw no problem with them the way they were, but nerfs will happen. I think this build did a lot to help the rock/paper/scissors concept that CCP strives for. Not saying it's perfect yet, but things are a lot better.
Enervating Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 9	Posted - 2012.07.12 14:56:00 - [32] - Quote Ezrael Hawkins wrote: Forge Gunners are apparently one of the best AP weapons in the game - they are used to camp as there is only 3 spawn spots. I would count again, as there's one for each team that is uncaptureable, and 4 that aren't the ABC points that are captureable and destructable. Edit: it's actually 4 points.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.12 17:21:00 - [33] - Quote Spamming Forge Gun shots at infantry requires you to be REALLY close, or REALLY good if you want to hit consistently. Near-misses can kill Scouts (which I normally am), but anything tougher will usually survive (even Militia Assaults, if they're not being hit by a high-tier FG). And the "base" spawn is outside their accurate range, enemies CAN'T effectively hit you when you're there. They have to stay back behind the red line.


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