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Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before anybody tries to tell me they're not going to put them in, there's another post somewhere confirming it. This post is just for a discussion about what they would look like and do, what variations there woould be and their uses on the battlefield.
With all planes, there should be a high skill requirement so that there aren't a massive number of people bombing as that would ruin it, or have to delegate some players at the beginning of the match to be able to fly.
Currently I can only think of three types (apart from the dropship):
1. Bomber A plane that can target areas to bomb with a heavy payload, medium speed and relatively high amounts of shield and armor. Can take out tanks, infantry and possibly building if a destructible environment is put into place. You should be able to select it's payload, engine, modules etc. These bombers would be really useful especially if their team could mark places to strike with electronic markers.
2. Fighters A faster plane who specializes in being able to take out other planes. They would be fast but have weapons that are only really effective against other aircraft in dogfighting. Their primary use would be to defend against bombers or escort bombers to deliver their payload.
3. Stealth Bombers. Bombers should have a cloaking device and a much larger payload than the standard bomber but they sacrifice their shields to power the cloaking device. Also, as they move, you can see a slight shimmer in the air so it is possible to see them without sensors. The planes can be detected with sensors that can be fitted on to other planes and I think these sensors should work so that Tier 1 sensors can detect Tier 1 cloaking, Tier 2 sensors can detect Tier 2 cloaking etc.
I'd love to hear your ideas on this |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think there should be fighters and fighter-bombers. Fast movers should be able to attack both ground and air targets, albeit to differing degrees. If you create a vehicle that is unable to defend itself against a particular other vehicle, you create a vehicle that rarely gets used.
Thus, fighters would be good against other fighters, dropships, and fighter-bombers. Against ground targets, they would be able to provide CAS, firing light missiles.
Fighter-bombers would likely fire heavy missiles, or a bombing module could be introduced to help limit effectiveness against aircraft. That would instead be more likely done by blasters or rails. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
The point of having the bomber vulnerable to fighter is to promote teamwork and force fighters to escort them to their are where they can deliver their payload. Though due to the nature of Dust, all planes will be customizable so you can have a stealth bomber equipped as a fighter and a fighter equipped as a bomber |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
This covers "jet" type aircraft nicely.
But we still only have a transport helicopter equivalent.
I think there should be a Gunship to go with Dropships - smaller, with a focus on combat instead of transport capabilities. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:This covers "jet" type aircraft nicely.
But we still only have a transport helicopter equivalent.
I think there should be a Gunship to go with Dropships - smaller, with a focus on combat instead of transport capabilities. I agree that there need to be more helicopter like craft apart from just dropships and the customiztion that will be possible in the gunship would be pretty cool as you could have a huge range of defences( electronic, armour, shield and cloaking) and weapons could be fitted. I think that gunships will be added soon as they have already layed down the groundwork for it with the dropship.
Hopefully we'll see gunships soon.... |
jackbubu
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
in a fanfest demo of DUST514 from the 2009 fanfest they even where flying around themselves with jetfighters, so unless they completly scrapped that they will definatly come.
also the latest Fanfest trailer does have jets flying over the soldiers in the very end. |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:The point of having the bomber vulnerable to fighter is to promote teamwork and force fighters to escort them to their are where they can deliver their payload. Though due to the nature of Dust, all planes will be customizable so you can have a stealth bomber equipped as a fighter and a fighter equipped as a bomber
The issue is that bombers wouldn't be usable unless you were fighting alongside your corp. They would need to be more versatile, and able to defend themselves to at least some degree for when they don't have support. I'm not suggesting they be able to easily knock out aircraft, just have a means of dealing some damage so that a skilled pilot has a fighting chance when his team of randoms won't help him out as he's trying to clear out an objective from the air. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ronin Odachi wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:The point of having the bomber vulnerable to fighter is to promote teamwork and force fighters to escort them to their are where they can deliver their payload. Though due to the nature of Dust, all planes will be customizable so you can have a stealth bomber equipped as a fighter and a fighter equipped as a bomber The issue is that bombers wouldn't be usable unless you were fighting alongside your corp. They would need to be more versatile, and able to defend themselves to at least some degree for when they don't have support. I'm not suggesting they be able to easily knock out aircraft, just have a means of dealing some damage so that a skilled pilot has a fighting chance when his team of randoms won't help him out as he's trying to clear out an objective from the air. There will have to be a lot of adjusting when it comes to the strength of the bomber where theyll keep changing it from being underpowered to overpowered untill they find a balance and I think that will be a problem with the bomber
I think a way to balance the power of bombers would be to have AA guns fitted on bomber that can be controlled by other players so that they can shoot down other planes. The bomber wouldnt be as powerful against aircraft as a fighter due to the lack of manoeuvrability. There would also be less powerful weaponry as CPU and PG would be taken up by the bombing modules and payload |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:There will have to be a lot of adjusting when it comes to the strength of the bomber where theyll keep changing it from being underpowered to overpowered untill they find a balance and I think that will be a problem with the bomber
I think a way to balance the power of bombers would be to have AA guns fitted on bomber that can be controlled by other players so that they can shoot down other planes. The bomber wouldnt be as powerful against aircraft as a fighter due to the lack of manoeuvrability. There would also be less powerful weaponry as CPU and PG would be taken up by the bombing modules and payload
I think the issue here is you're thinking more B52 where I'm thinking more F14. The heavy, carpet-bombing style bomber has all but been phased out in modern times, how much more so in the future? Modern fighter-bombers can pack such a wallop, there's no need for cumbersome aircraft anymore. If you took a Flying Fortress and beefed it up with EVE tech, then slapped it in a battlefield, you'd be looking more at a OB-esque ground attack, blasting a huge area.
A fighter-bomber just makes more sense. More survivable, more fun, more fitting, IMO. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ronin Odachi wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:There will have to be a lot of adjusting when it comes to the strength of the bomber where theyll keep changing it from being underpowered to overpowered untill they find a balance and I think that will be a problem with the bomber
I think a way to balance the power of bombers would be to have AA guns fitted on bomber that can be controlled by other players so that they can shoot down other planes. The bomber wouldnt be as powerful against aircraft as a fighter due to the lack of manoeuvrability. There would also be less powerful weaponry as CPU and PG would be taken up by the bombing modules and payload I think the issue here is you're thinking more B52 where I'm thinking more F14. The heavy, carpet-bombing style bomber has all but been phased out in modern times, how much more so in the future? Modern fighter-bombers can pack such a wallop, there's no need for cumbersome aircraft anymore. If you took a Flying Fortress and beefed it up with EVE tech, then slapped it in a battlefield, you'd be looking more at a OB-esque ground attack, blasting a huge area. A fighter-bomber just makes more sense. More survivable, more fun, more fitting, IMO. The problem with that is that what would be the point of using a fighter when you could have the manoeuvrability and AA skills of a fighter and be able to bomb people? I'm not thinking of a B52 but a slower jet with a large payload. The reason it would be slower is because it would be sacrificing CPU and PG for the bombing module and would therefore not be able to equip as large an engine. I guess it could be considered a fighter bomber but I do want it to be significantly less powerful than a fighter so that a player has to make a choice.
And while we're on the subject of bombers, what's your view on my stealth bomber idea? |
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Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:The problem with that is that what would be the point of using a fighter when you could have the manoeuvrability and AA skills of a fighter and be able to bomb people? I'm not thinking of a B52 but a slower jet with a large payload. The reason it would be slower is because it would be sacrificing CPU and PG for the bombing module and would therefore not be able to equip as large an engine. I guess it could be considered a fighter bomber but I do want it to be significantly less powerful than a fighter so that a player has to make a choice.
And while we're on the subject of bombers, what's your view on my stealth bomber idea?
Well, the fighter-bomber would have have a bombing module, the only thing it could use against aircraft would be blasters. The fighter would have missiles (perhaps lock ons?) in addition to blasters, in addition to better maneuverability. Not too much better, but definitely a difference.
I do like the idea of stealth bombers, as I prefer to play more covertly. Would only really work if the bomber had to decloak in order to drop its payload, similar to cloaking in EVE. Otherwise it could become too powerful. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I suppose that in 20k AD there will be a equivalent of Helicopters. Anyway I would love to have Hoover Jets for sure: that would remove the need for Future Helicopters. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ronin Odachi wrote:
Well, the fighter-bomber would have have a bombing module, the only thing it could use against aircraft would be blasters. The fighter would have missiles (perhaps lock ons?) in addition to blasters, in addition to better maneuverability. Not too much better, but definitely a difference.
I do like the idea of stealth bombers, as I prefer to play more covertly. Would only really work if the bomber had to decloak in order to drop its payload, similar to cloaking in EVE. Otherwise it could become too powerful.
That's why I was thinking of the sensors and it would allow you to see the ship on your HUD and be able to lock on. Also, maybe it only activates if your below a certain speed or if your using weapons, modules etc.
I think the way that you have balanced the weaponry of the fighter and bombers is brilliant and could really work! |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:I suppose that in 20k AD there will be a equivalent of Helicopters. Anyway I would love to have Hoover Jets for sure: that would remove the need for Future Helicopters. I guess at 20k AD, all ships would have VTOL as standard to remove the need for airfields |
Bo Tracta
Celtic Anarchy
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fighters would be just the thing to go deal with all the Dropships spamming missiles from on top of the towers right now. |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
^^^ This. Prolly the biggest reason I'm looking forward to them. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I just want to fly into dropships and cause a massive explosion |
Lephis Macintosh
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP GIVE US MORE HYPERION!! |
Vincent parker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
with all tech there are countermeasures eg: bomber =aa guns/ fighters=surface to air missiles so u can have whatever you want in a game just make sure there's a countermeasure in place to balance the fight so if u don't want to be bombed defend those aa gun and so on |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote: 1. Bomber A plane that can target areas to bomb with a heavy payload, medium speed and relatively high amounts of shield and armor. Can take out tanks, infantry and possibly building if a destructible environment is put into place. You should be able to select it's payload, engine, modules etc. These bombers would be really useful especially if their team could mark places to strike with electronic markers.
2. Fighters A faster plane who specializes in being able to take out other planes. They would be fast but have weapons that are only really effective against other aircraft in dogfighting. Their primary use would be to defend against bombers or escort bombers to deliver their payload.
3. Stealth Bombers. Bombers should have a cloaking device and a much larger payload than the standard bomber but they sacrifice their shields to power the cloaking device. Also, as they move, you can see a slight shimmer in the air so it is possible to see them without sensors. The planes can be detected with sensors that can be fitted on to other planes and I think these sensors should work so that Tier 1 sensors can detect Tier 1 cloaking, Tier 2 sensors can detect Tier 2 cloaking etc.
I'd love to hear your ideas on this
Bomber +1
Fighters +1
SB +...
I think the SB should have to decloak to do anything like the covert ops ships in EVE.
If they can attack while cloaked, that's going to get over powered abuse from everyone. |
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Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:Zach Shanna wrote: 1. Bomber A plane that can target areas to bomb with a heavy payload, medium speed and relatively high amounts of shield and armor. Can take out tanks, infantry and possibly building if a destructible environment is put into place. You should be able to select it's payload, engine, modules etc. These bombers would be really useful especially if their team could mark places to strike with electronic markers.
2. Fighters A faster plane who specializes in being able to take out other planes. They would be fast but have weapons that are only really effective against other aircraft in dogfighting. Their primary use would be to defend against bombers or escort bombers to deliver their payload.
3. Stealth Bombers. Bombers should have a cloaking device and a much larger payload than the standard bomber but they sacrifice their shields to power the cloaking device. Also, as they move, you can see a slight shimmer in the air so it is possible to see them without sensors. The planes can be detected with sensors that can be fitted on to other planes and I think these sensors should work so that Tier 1 sensors can detect Tier 1 cloaking, Tier 2 sensors can detect Tier 2 cloaking etc.
I'd love to hear your ideas on this
Bomber +1 Fighters +1 SB +... I think the SB should have to decloak to do anything like the covert ops ships in EVE. If they can attack while cloaked, that's going to get over powered abuse from everyone. I did mention later that they had to travel under a certain speed and if they used modules or weapons, they would have to decloak. I think that stealth bombers would be a little trial and error to get the right amount of power. Also you have to consider that the stealth bomber will be expensive and would require a lot of skills so they wont be that popular |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote: I did mention later that they had to travel under a certain speed and if they used modules or weapons, they would have to decloak. I think that stealth bombers would be a little trial and error to get the right amount of power. Also you have to consider that the stealth bomber will be expensive and would require a lot of skills so they wont be that popular
then +1
sounds good to me |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:Zach Shanna wrote: I did mention later that they had to travel under a certain speed and if they used modules or weapons, they would have to decloak. I think that stealth bombers would be a little trial and error to get the right amount of power. Also you have to consider that the stealth bomber will be expensive and would require a lot of skills so they wont be that popular
then +1 sounds good to me Good to know I got it right |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
bump? |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
I see no opposition, I think this was a successful thread. Let it sink. Will likely be making a compilation thread later today, will include some of these ideas. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
It was just fun to talk about it and I know if it sinks, it will be forgotten in time... and by devs |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
That's what compilation threads are for. You get them every so often, and you can recap good ideas that have fallen off page 1. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
One day the idea might be resurrected, one day |
Va'len Irisian
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 06:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Since the topic has been brought up; gonna throw in my two cents quick. Personally, I think aircraft should take more of a gunship type role. A VTOL type aircraft with mechanics similar to the drop ship except outfitted and designed for combat purposes. It almost seems to me that a more traditional aircraft along a traditional design like has been suggested here would require larger maps. I'm assuming that speed would be one of their greater assets similar to the battlefield series. I can't imagine maps around the size of what we presently have would support 'fast movers' of that nature. I'd suggest that they make them more like helicopter gunships. The concept would even seem to fit better with the idea that the players are independent mercenaries more so than a component of an organized military structure. A VTOL gunship concept requires less infrastructure to support and can be transported into and out of combat zones with a mobile force more effectively. Obviously, more traditional straight wing aircraft require airfields or carriers, which as I am understanding the back story, is not necessarily under the direct control of the Dust mercenaries. At best, it would imply more direct support and involvement from EVE players or organizations for those type of aircraft from a background perspective. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 12:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Va'len Irisian wrote:Since the topic has been brought up; gonna throw in my two cents quick. Personally, I think aircraft should take more of a gunship type role. A VTOL type aircraft with mechanics similar to the drop ship except outfitted and designed for combat purposes. It almost seems to me that a more traditional aircraft along a traditional design like has been suggested here would require larger maps. I'm assuming that speed would be one of their greater assets similar to the battlefield series. I can't imagine maps around the size of what we presently have would support 'fast movers' of that nature. I'd suggest that they make them more like helicopter gunships. The concept would even seem to fit better with the idea that the players are independent mercenaries more so than a component of an organized military structure. A VTOL gunship concept requires less infrastructure to support and can be transported into and out of combat zones with a mobile force more effectively. Obviously, more traditional straight wing aircraft require airfields or carriers, which as I am understanding the back story, is not necessarily under the direct control of the Dust mercenaries. At best, it would imply more direct support and involvement from EVE players or organizations for those type of aircraft from a background perspective. The aircraft design that I had proposed would be more for the corporation battles as those battles will have a very large space compared to the maps that we are currently playing and more than enough space, if you consider the vertical aspect, to function.
Currently, some jets are VTOl, ie the harrier jet, so I'm pretty sure this far in the future, all jets would be VTOL as standard therefore you wouldn't have a problem with needing airfields or space. The same system now can be implemented where you would have a RDV bring it in and you would be able to lift off. It involves no further backstory than the current backstory about how helicopters are brough onto the battlefield. Even if there weren't VTOL, that wouldn't be a problem as Dust Mercenaries are always fighting for a corporation, whether their own or one they have been hired for, therefore you could use the airfields of the corporation you're working for but, as I said, Jets are most likely to be VTOL at this time |
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