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Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
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Posted - 2012.06.30 06:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems as of late there has been a "boom" in the popularity of the Remote Explosives. particularly people using them as short-range insta-kill grenades, or spawn camping.
My compatriots and I have just had a 30 minute debate on how powerful these things are. on one side, we had people who use them saying they are fine as is, and on the other we had mostly people who don't use them thinking of ways to "nerf" them.
Instead of directly stating my opinion on the matter, first I will state both sides of the argument.
On the keep them as they are side, some points are:
-They are difficult to use well, as they can blow up in your face.
-They are easy enough to avoid, as you can see people throw them
-They usually have an "arming time" which keeps them balanced.
-They are needed for taking out tanks/vehicles.
-They may be far less potent when better resist modules/skills are released (Explosive resistance, etc)
On the nerf side:
-They are being used as grenades, and you get 5 of them each spawn.
-They are ridiculously easy to train into for their power.
-The arming speed seems too fast.
-They are supposed to be more of a trap than an instant gratification.
Some ideas to fix them. Obviously the first, and IMO the best suggestion was to increase the arming timer. Once the package hits the ground, it takes upwards of 4 seconds with leve 1 demo, down to 1 second with level 5 demo.
Then the fact that that could make it a lot harder to take out vehicles with them came up.
So then I suggested they make the package "stick" to a surface. Make it so when you throw it, it will stick to say.. the side of a tank, or the ground, or a wall, etc.
another idea was to simply make the planter more vulnerable while planting them. Perhaps make the user stop and "kneel down" and plant the explosive, taking a solid 1-1.5 seconds. It's an issue that you can just be running and throw one down. or throw it while moving, as though it were a grenade.
The only thing I ask is, make it more of a tactical, PREEMPTIVE "trap" mechanic, and far less of a ... well, whatever it is now. I don't want to keep screaming "nerf!" at things. The swarm launcher I think got balanced well for now, and I'm sure when they decide what to do with it permanently, it'll be fine.
That said, Remote Explosives, at this point in time, are ridiculous, and something needs to be done. Certainly there will always be that one thing that is more powerful than the other things, but really, just a small tweak is all that is needed with the explosives. not a full on nerf the stuffing out of it.
TLDR: Remote Explosives are Far too powerful for how easy they are to obtain/use, and they are far too multi-purpose for a supposed "trap" item.
Unless CCP has something in the works to make us more resilient to them by default (something built into dropsuits, or perhaps attached to the dropsuit proficiency skills. (otherwise it will basically be a "mandatory" skill, which defeats the purpose of having several choices) Or perhaps different mods that, along with extending shields, increases resistance to damage types (think Invulnerability shields in EVE), thus making it take more than one to kill someone.
If thats the case, then I guess we'll just have to wait and see how effective/ineffective remote explosives become. but I still think being able to run while planting them seems a bit... silly. "Something" should be done either way.
Agree? Disagree? |
Deacyde Widowtaker
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.06.30 06:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think they are fine, it's really all relative how they are effecting people.
But I was thinking maybe they'd be better off as specialty explosives.
meaning, different kinds, have different effects and dmg:
Could have
Corrosive : extra dmg to dropsuits
EMP : less dmg but causes enemy huds in area to go blank
Sticky: less dmg but can hold where thrown
fragmentation: less dmg but larger than normal splash dmg
so on and so forth to help maybe balance the explosives.
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Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 06:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Deacyde Widowtaker wrote:I think they are fine, it's really all relative how they are effecting people.
But I was thinking maybe they'd be better off as specialty explosives.
meaning, different kinds, have different effects and dmg:
Could have
Corrosive : extra dmg to dropsuits
EMP : less dmg but causes enemy huds in area to go blank
Sticky: less dmg but can hold where thrown
fragmentation: less dmg but larger than normal splash dmg
so on and so forth to help maybe balance the explosives.
The thing is, the you're making them more like grenades. I want them to be LESS like grenades, and more like an actual planted explosive.
Though I think what your ideas are would make FANTASTIC grenades ;) |
Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2012.06.30 06:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
pretty sure i've been right next to a guy getting ready to annihilate him with my shotgun and he just casually chucks remote explosives and then i go flying and he's perfectly fine right next to me |
Skytt Syysch
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
235
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Posted - 2012.06.30 07:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
My problem with them is they one-shot any dropsuit. Not only that, but they seem to explode after the owner dies (not 100% sure, but it definitely seems like it when I kill the planter as he's firing his gun, and then one explodes somewhere nearby). Neither of those should happen in my opinion.
I'm fine with them being anti-vehicle death machines, but they shouldn't have such disgusting damage against infantry, just like swarm launchers used to, and they should be duds if the user dies. |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 07:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
I can confirm that REs do indeed explode after the user dies. You can imagine what this causes in a crowded room.
I can't agree with making them sticky. Seems like a great way to turn the Scout into the prime anti-vehicle choice instead of the Heavy. Think about it: why would you bother lumbering around with a Forge Gun if you can use a cheap Scout to scoot over to the tank, plant, die and watch it go up in flames? |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 08:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Etero Narciss wrote:I can confirm that REs do indeed explode after the user dies. You can imagine what this causes in a crowded room.
I can't agree with making them sticky. Seems like a great way to turn the Scout into the prime anti-vehicle choice instead of the Heavy. Think about it: why would you bother lumbering around with a Forge Gun if you can use a cheap Scout to scoot over to the tank, plant, die and watch it go up in flames?
well, then just give them a longer arming time. they can't be remote grenades. thats what ... grenades.. are for. the Cavity grenade explodes on contact, and is usually a one hit kill. but you only get two per spawn. The remote explosives are actually better than the grenades, (currently, because of their flexibility) and you get 5 of them per spawn.
I say slightly up their damage to vehicles, and make it a maximum of 3 per spawn... maybe? |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 08:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:Etero Narciss wrote:I can confirm that REs do indeed explode after the user dies. You can imagine what this causes in a crowded room.
I can't agree with making them sticky. Seems like a great way to turn the Scout into the prime anti-vehicle choice instead of the Heavy. Think about it: why would you bother lumbering around with a Forge Gun if you can use a cheap Scout to scoot over to the tank, plant, die and watch it go up in flames? well, then just give them a longer arming time. they can't be remote grenades. thats what ... grenades.. are for. the Cavity grenade[ explodes on contact, and is usually a one hit kill. but you only get two per spawn. The remote explosives are actually better than the grenades, and you get 5 of them per spawn. I say slightly up their damage to vehicles, and make it a maximum of 3 per spawn... maybe? That reads like the worst thing ever.
Limiting them to three might do it. I suppose with that caveat it could work. It'd still one shot militia tanks but that's okay, and better tanks would belong to better teams anyway so it's not like you'll get many chances to use them for that. |
Daeron I Targaryen
2
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
the problem is, people are using them as spawn traps. spawns are very specific so they are easily taken advantage of. |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 08:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daeron I Targaryen wrote:the problem is, people are using them as spawn traps. spawns are very specific so they are easily taken advantage of.
Unless we start spawning from the sky and dropping to some random spot in the ground, spawn camping will always be an issue in this game. Drop Uplinks can go around this problem, as can dropships and vehicles with the relevant modules equipped.
Or just grab a cheap jeep, drive past everyone while going wide, and put an uplink somewhere out of the way. |
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DarthWub
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Boom Boom Boom Boom Boom |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 18:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
As far as the spawn camping goes, they do just need to find a way to make spawn points more "random". be it dropping from the sky, or whatever |
Ile Faded
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skytt Syysch wrote:My problem with them is they one-shot any dropsuit. Not only that, but they seem to explode after the owner dies (not 100% sure, but it definitely seems like it when I kill the planter as he's firing his gun, and then one explodes somewhere nearby). Neither of those should happen in my opinion.
I'm fine with them being anti-vehicle death machines, but they shouldn't have such disgusting damage against infantry, just like swarm launchers used to, and they should be duds if the user dies.
They don't explode after you die, you trigger them. Why you don't suicide every time you die. |
Bzeer
MG GROUP
41
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Posted - 2012.06.30 19:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't get close enough for these guys to succesfully detonate me, but I've seen them. I think they got popular because I think they disabled friendly fire on them. I remember blowing myself up in the previous build with them but I don't think you have to worry about that anymore. Personally I'd have these weapons self inflict damage when not used properly. I don't mind a suicide bomber in game, but don't like the idea of f.o.f. Remote explosives. It should be a.o.e agains friends and foes and self alike.
Ps I think they should be sticky, and partially attracted to vehicles or installation within their tossing range. If they worked better for vehicles and installations the anti infantry attic for them would likely go away. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 22:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bzeer wrote:I don't get close enough for these guys to succesfully detonate me, but I've seen them. I think they got popular because I think they disabled friendly fire on them. I remember blowing myself up in the previous build with them but I don't think you have to worry about that anymore. Personally I'd have these weapons self inflict damage when not used properly. I don't mind a suicide bomber in game, but don't like the idea of f.o.f. Remote explosives. It should be a.o.e agains friends and foes and self alike.
Ps I think they should be sticky, and partially attracted to vehicles or installation within their tossing range. If they worked better for vehicles and installations the anti infantry attic for them would likely go away.
i agree. Make them sticky, and more, as you say, "attracted" to vehicles and installations.
But also you shouldn't be able to throw/plant them while moving. |
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