DUST Search - Points instead of KDR

Xaero 514 wrote:

Eventhough I understand KDR does breed negativity in some players, I don't believe that that it should disappear altogether.

My KDR isn't amazing, I think I'm on a 1.6 at the minute, but I don't sit on a rock at the back of the map with a sniper rifle and I don't make a career by tank spamming. I'm an assault guy and I push objectives. I hack the odd objective, but I usually cover others while they hack. For someone like me there isn't a lot of points I can make other than for killing people. I drop ammo for players but they rarely pick it up. I don't understand that seeing as I run out of ammo all the time.

I think if there was a system where you could clearly see who was carrying ammo/health/whatever and you could request it, then KDR could take a back seat. I'd also like more points for supporting the team. In any shooter there will always be players that would rather get kills than go for objectives. I played a game yesterday where a sniper went 31-0, he lost. Right now there's no real penalty for just going for kills, but when the game is released and players aren't getting the SP due to the fact that they're camping it up, they will be left behind and will be forced to play.... eventually.

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Immortiano Dranon Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 179	Posted - 2012.06.29 07:16:00 - [1] - Quote First of all, CCP, thank you for the E3 update. It's amazing!!!11!1!!111fifteen. And now I finally know who to shoot at thanks to changing the colors used for enemy indicators. THANK YOU! Now, on to important stuff. I feel that KDR is not a good representation of a player's contribution to the battle. And plus, kill assists don't get counted so even if you get 20 assists, you'll still have a kill count of 0. I suggest replacing the KDR with a point system in which you get points for kills and assists and hacking objectives. It would make for a much better representation of a player's role on the battlefield. You could be the MVP in your team by being the one who hacks all the objective, even though you suck at aiming. IMHO you're a much more valuable asset than the guy with the perfect KDR. Edit: I didn't mean to remove KDR altogether. What I'd like is the leaderboard to show points and only you can see your KDR and other stats, but everyone else just sees how many points you have. I think something like this [1] would be quite awesome. Everyone sees how many points every other player has, but he can see his points broken down into every category. Edit: My proposed point awards: Kill: 1 point Assist: 0.5 points, when you get 2 assists you get 1 point Sniper headshot (if the game supports it): 2 points Taking an objective: 2 or 3 points Override an objective (e.g. stop the enemy from taking it): 3 points (it should value more since the objective continues to stay under your command) Reviving a teammate: 1 point Healing a teammate: 1/200 points, when you heal 200 points of hp, you get 1 point (please adjust accordingly) Vehicle damage: 0.5 points Vehicle destruction: 2 points (taking out vehicles is as important as taking objectives) Having someone spawn in your vehicle: 0.5 points Dropping a player over/at an enemy owned objective: 0.5 points [1] http://www.straferight.com/forums/attachments/shooters/14836d1209011828-official-post-your-tf2-screenshot-score-thread-tf2score.jpg
Kipic Bricker L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 22	Posted - 2012.06.29 07:19:00 - [2] - Quote I wholeheartedly second this. Dust514 wants to place itself as a squad based tactics shooter, it needs to go away from the "simple" KDR summery. I think it would be awesome if on the results screen we could get a complete breakdown of where all of our SP and ISK gain came from.
Spazzeh BHD Better Hide R Die 16	Posted - 2012.06.29 07:32:00 - [3] - Quote I'm behind this, too. Make it like Warhawk's point system.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.06.29 08:46:00 - [4] - Quote Yea a warpoint / death ratio would definately beat a K/D ratio board for New Eden - lots more to win a fight than just kill folks.
Youknowutimsayin 196	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:29:00 - [5] - Quote Im behind this, though I don't think the scoreboard will change much.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:39:00 - [6] - Quote Prolly not - but as is, it penalizes the team players and puts the spawn campers on top.....
Cillian Magu Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:45:00 - [7] - Quote Absolutely yes. Enemy Territory: Quake Wars had a similar system and it worked very well. In that game, more often than not, people who actively tried to complete objectives and support their teammates topped the leaderboard at the end of each match. It's a much fairer representation of players contribution to the battle.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:47:00 - [8] - Quote Hm. I would gladly enoy the change myself. I noticed that it only displayed KDR too, but short of anything else really. Also the map feature needs to a little less clunky. By which I mean as it stands it will get you killed on field. It's also not translucent by any means, and is a tad slow to bring up.
Shogen Shu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:53:00 - [9] - Quote I try to play logistic, and as it is now, it's a little unfair. I feel the DKR as a handicap/constraint. Being a logi is really hard right now, but being forced in to this DKR makes it more worse.
Larzous Algintal Core Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:08:00 - [10] - Quote Immortiano Dranon wrote: First of all, CCP, thank you for the E3 update. It's amazing!!!11!1!!111fifteen. And now I finally know who to shoot at thanks to changing the colors used for enemy indicators. THANK YOU! Now, on to important stuff. I feel that KDR is not a good representation of a player's contribution to the battle. And plus, kill assists don't get counted so even if you get 20 assists, you'll still have a kill count of 0. I suggest replacing the KDR with a point system in which you get points for kills and assists and hacking objectives. It would make for a much better representation of a player's role on the battlefield. You could be the MVP in your team by being the one who hacks all the objective, even though you suck at aiming. IMHO you're a much more valuable asset than the guy with the perfect KDR. Absolutely true. I'm sick of being 0/5 but have like 7 assists, 3+ hacks and 2-3 vehicle/turrets destroyed. but pilots leave before they blow up so no kills so I look like a horrible player.

Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:11:00 - [11] - Quote Shogen Shu wrote: I try to play logistic, and as it is now, it's a little unfair. I feel the DKR as a handicap/constraint. Being a logi is really hard right now, but being forced in to this DKR makes it more worse. Whoa! A medic... That is like a unicorn right? Something you hear about, but never see. Oh my lord! A medic! Ah! Please. Continue to be a medic. Barbers are necessary damnit! Also I would really enjoy it if CCP implemented a way to notify medics of someone who wants to be revived. You know.. Something.. I just sit there bleeding. Death at my door. My poor clone.
VIC VENOM 4	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:23:00 - [12] - Quote ive found the logistics fit hard to use , finding team mates to revive is hard and you only get 20sp for it . does not make you want to put the effort in realy for 20 sp .
Boyd Bishop Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:55:00 - [13] - Quote I agree with this statement. I donGÇÖt think KDR should be ditched entirely, but I would definitely enjoy a point system implemented into match standings, as everyone is worth more than the people they lay waste to. You get points for accomplishing a specific thing, whether it be killing someone or hacking something, but what does that translate into? Or does it even translate at all? We donGÇÖt know unless players are given a breakdown of all the things theyGÇÖve done in a match after the fact.
woess Kanalanal 23	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:57:00 - [14] - Quote i support this !!!
Xaero 514 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 324	Posted - 2012.06.29 10:59:00 - [15] - Quote Eventhough I understand KDR does breed negativity in some players, I don't believe that that it should disappear altogether. My KDR isn't amazing, I think I'm on a 1.6 at the minute, but I don't sit on a rock at the back of the map with a sniper rifle and I don't make a career by tank spamming. I'm an assault guy and I push objectives. I hack the odd objective, but I usually cover others while they hack. For someone like me there isn't a lot of points I can make other than for killing people. I drop ammo for players but they rarely pick it up. I don't understand that seeing as I run out of ammo all the time. I think if there was a system where you could clearly see who was carrying ammo/health/whatever and you could request it, then KDR could take a back seat. I'd also like more points for supporting the team. In any shooter there will always be players that would rather get kills than go for objectives. I played a game yesterday where a sniper went 31-0, he lost. Right now there's no real penalty for just going for kills, but when the game is released and players aren't getting the SP due to the fact that they're camping it up, they will be left behind and will be forced to play.... eventually.
woess Kanalanal 23	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:07:00 - [16] - Quote Xaero 514 wrote: Eventhough I understand KDR does breed negativity in some players, I don't believe that that it should disappear altogether. My KDR isn't amazing, I think I'm on a 1.6 at the minute, but I don't sit on a rock at the back of the map with a sniper rifle and I don't make a career by tank spamming. I'm an assault guy and I push objectives. I hack the odd objective, but I usually cover others while they hack. For someone like me there isn't a lot of points I can make other than for killing people. I drop ammo for players but they rarely pick it up. I don't understand that seeing as I run out of ammo all the time. I think if there was a system where you could clearly see who was carrying ammo/health/whatever and you could request it, then KDR could take a back seat. I'd also like more points for supporting the team. In any shooter there will always be players that would rather get kills than go for objectives. I played a game yesterday where a sniper went 31-0, he lost. Right now there's no real penalty for just going for kills, but when the game is released and players aren't getting the SP due to the fact that they're camping it up, they will be left behind and will be forced to play.... eventually. i think it would be ok to see the players kills (but not the deaths) in the scoreboard and also the points the player made than people would attack and don't camp for kd because they will see that they have only 2 kills and others have 10 or something... so if they don't see the deaths they wouldnt camp, because they wouldn't be on the top in the scoreboard
Cillian Magu Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:18:00 - [17] - Quote Seeing the player kills and deaths on the scoreboard would be fine, but they should be ranked according to points.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:19:00 - [18] - Quote Great idea op, let's make this game team based/objective based.. Kdr is bad on skirmish.
Torkada Alamstrada Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 184	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:25:00 - [19] - Quote If somebody loves their KD, then that's fine by me. I think points and KDR should be a both/and, not an either/or. That keeps everyone happy. Also, yes, please keep playing a medic. I've never actually seen one in battle, but every time I'm downed, I clutch my minigun and think "Hold on, my precious, maybe the medics will save us!"
Benjamin Hellios Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2012.06.29 14:26:00 - [20] - Quote Maybe they could rank player according to their contribution percentage and put the KDR next to it in parentheses; 17% (5/3) or something like it to stimulate objective based play. Also the whole reviving sequence is rather lengthy, swap to nanite injector (which is a pain, 50% of the time you end up standing there with a nanohive in your hands like an idiot), go to, revive, swap back to weapon, so unless you have squadmates providing cover fire it's nearly impossible to pull it off without dying yourself. A temporary shield boost while reviving would be useful.

Alexei Darkbloom Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2012.06.29 14:30:00 - [21] - Quote In the objective-based missions it should be possible to make the top of the leader board without a single kill.
Bodi Zypher Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.06.29 14:59:00 - [22] - Quote this is great idea, as i am normally gunner in someones vehicle and get assist kills, also maybe have something that shows who is taking objectives, it is good to know who is actually working as team
Lee Giroux D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2012.06.29 15:03:00 - [23] - Quote I SUPPORT THIS
Aka-ahn Bragian Order Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.06.29 15:09:00 - [24] - Quote Totally agree, KDR is detrimental to the game and takes focus away from what actually matters, the objectives.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.06.29 15:44:00 - [25] - Quote Hows about we dont remove The KDR system, but rather lust add in all the other stats.
IRON 400 USMG ExFor WHY so Seri0Us 5	Posted - 2012.06.29 15:53:00 - [26] - Quote I definitely support this! I am thinking a battle summary similar to MAG or BF3. You still get the KDR, but you can tell right away who was pushing objectives and playing team support.
Daalzebul Del'Armgo D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2012.06.29 16:06:00 - [27] - Quote would rather have a full break down than just kill/s and k/d to easy to just manipulate it anyhow least on scoreboard
JenQua Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 46	Posted - 2012.06.29 16:16:00 - [28] - Quote I agree a point system would be much nicer. I have had a few rounds on last build when i was just starting out i would get 1 or 2 kills but had 20+ kill assist, but is hows the only help i gave was 2 kills. even got a mail once from a guy telling me to do more and maybe next time the team im on could have won. all cause my kdr was low but i had help kill alot of enemies and hacked countless things for the team. But only i know this.
Prophet ISF Independent Special Forces 7	Posted - 2012.06.29 16:31:00 - [29] - Quote Agree! Just get rid of the KDR. It'll also leave that mysteriousness of players whether they're good or bad (if you can view other people's statistics) - it'll stop people becoming overconfident or too cautious of their gameplay. I know some people are very concious of their KDR because they don't want to be judged by people who have higher than them. Let people chill and enjoy the game and focus on the objective.
UNDERL0RD Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 181	Posted - 2012.06.29 16:35:00 - [30] - Quote I agree with the op. Eventhough kdr should play apart as it doesin any shooter. But in a tactical one it should be based on team support, defending objective, & other stuff people mentioned. Granted you get points for kill assists, its not fair that I can dwindle a enemies life to almost nothing, and while reloading someone pops a few shots at him and gets credit for kill.



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