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Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2990	Posted - 2016.10.14 01:45:00 - [1] - Quote I really like how CCP handled the F2P system, but was it the best option for them? Best for the community? I've thought of an alternative and curious what the community would think. It's a bit of a combination of total free-to-play and the PLEX route of EVE. Players would purchase a 'mercenary license' that allows them to participate in FW and PC for one month. Pubs are free. There would be different tiers of licenses with better perks for each. (The system I've imagined if it were applied directly to Dust) Unlicensed merc - FREE - not eligible to play FW or PC Basic license - $1.00 OR 1,000,000 ISK - Allows players to participate in FW+PC for one month Level 2 License - $5.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $5.00 worth of AUR Level 3 License - $10.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $15.00 worth of AUR Elite license - $20.00 - Like above, but comes with more goodies, and maybe a longer license duration. You get the point. Players would be able to purchase a stack of licenses and sell them in-game as well. I feel this system is fair, reasonable, and encourages players to actually keep paying over time. My bro 'usuckatdust' spent $5.00 over the course of this game... That's a lot of free entertainment CCP provided to him. Would you guys participate in a system like this? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 1198	Posted - 2016.10.14 02:49:00 - [2] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I really like how CCP handled the F2P system, but was it the best option for them? Best for the community? I've thought of an alternative and curious what the community would think. It's a bit of a combination of total free-to-play and the PLEX route of EVE. Players would purchase a 'mercenary license' that allows them to participate in FW and PC for one month. Pubs are free. There would be different tiers of licenses with better perks for each. (The system I've imagined if it were applied directly to Dust) Unlicensed merc - FREE - not eligible to play FW or PC Basic license - $1.00 OR 1,000,000 ISK - Allows players to participate in FW+PC for one month Level 2 License - $5.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $5.00 worth of AUR Level 3 License - $10.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $15.00 worth of AUR Elite license - $20.00 - Like above, but comes with more goodies, and maybe a longer license duration. You get the point. Players would be able to purchase a stack of licenses and sell them in-game as well. I feel this system is fair, reasonable, and encourages players to actually keep paying over time. My bro 'usuckatdust' spent $5.00 over the course of this game... That's a lot of free entertainment CCP provided to him. Would you guys participate in a system like this? Unless the amounts of ISK per battle are changed. Logibros will be able to pay for their monthly in 1 battle. Good idea though. Dustkillz and chill
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 16080	Posted - 2016.10.14 02:53:00 - [3] - Quote Not really sure if it could work in Nova like it does for EVE. Maybe if they break it down into PvE and PvP. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8691	Posted - 2016.10.14 02:55:00 - [4] - Quote See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value. However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people. But hey it's worth exploring at the very least. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2991	Posted - 2016.10.14 03:00:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value. However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people. But hey it's worth exploring at the very least. So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there? I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust. Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8691	Posted - 2016.10.14 03:50:00 - [6] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value. However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people. But hey it's worth exploring at the very least. So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there? I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust. Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W. Well I just searched for FPS games that are also Free to Play on Steam, and I got 82 results so....yeah there are a few out there Honestly if costmetics are done right, there is money to be made there. Take a look at League of Legend's monetization model, or hell, even how Little Big Planet did most of their DLC. Im not against the option to have a subbed account that offers some perks at a better rate than buying stuff al la carte, but I think if you're going for a F2P model, you don't want pay walls to unlock content. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2991	Posted - 2016.10.14 04:00:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value. However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people. But hey it's worth exploring at the very least. So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there? I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust. Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W. Well I just searched for FPS games that are also Free to Play on Steam, and I got 82 results so....yeah there are a few out there Honestly if costmetics are done right, there is money to be made there. Take a look at League of Legend's monetization model, or hell, even how Little Big Planet did most of their DLC. Im not against the option to have a subbed account that offers some perks at a better rate than buying stuff al la carte, but I think if you're going for a F2P model, you don't want pay walls to unlock content. Ok, just a few things tho. I mentioned in the original post that this hypothetical "merc license" would be ISK-purchasable as well, and for a reasonable price, so it wouldn't be a paywall. I'm curious to check that list of 82 F2P shooters, and see if I've heard of any of them. That also goes back to my other point about how much more competition there is on PC, but let's not re-hash that :P EDIT------- I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8692	Posted - 2016.10.14 04:10:00 - [8] - Quote To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there. I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable. I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo. I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content. Talos Vagheitan wrote: I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to. Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2991	Posted - 2016.10.14 04:17:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there. I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable. I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo. I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content. Talos Vagheitan wrote: I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to. Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while. They gotta get paid man. You bought boosters, and I started throwing cash at them towards the end of the game, but a lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP. The system was abused. There has to be a compromise. I think what I proposed above is pretty good incentive to pay on a regular basis, without being too restrictive in the process. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1224	Posted - 2016.10.14 05:34:00 - [10] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there. I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable. I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo. I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content. Talos Vagheitan wrote: I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to. Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while. They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP. The system was abused. There has to be a compromise. I think what I proposed above is pretty good incentive to pay on a regular basis, without being too restrictive in the process. EDIT----- Also I have to point out, unless a game is developed by a charity organization, it can never really be free to play. There has to be a catch. ... Either it costs money to win, or costs money to play the second half of the game, or you have to watch advertisements, etc. Dust is the only F2P game I've ever known that really didn't have any catch. The entire game was available for free, on sort of an "honor system" and unfortunately they probably suffered because of that. I think the model CCP have with EvE now is worth a look at. An Alpha Clone can only train their own race's skills, weapons, ships, and only limited and slower at that. To expand out from these limitations, one has to upgrade to an Omega Clone. And you have to do that every month or you go back to Alpha Clone status. I think the same sort of thing would work in a FPS. Not having access to proto gear and alternate races would also stop protostomping by Alpha Clones.

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8692	Posted - 2016.10.14 05:36:00 - [11] - Quote If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2994	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:10:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. Well, with what I proposed the "free ride" is certainly still an option if that's what you choose, just earn 1M ISK and you're good to go (or pay the 1 measly dollar), or also just play pubs if that's what you want. I wouldn't feel restricted at all by this. But did you look at those tiered License options I proposed? Those would look pretty tempting to me. And if you're going to pay $1, you may as well spring for the $5 option and those extra goodies... and if you're going to pay that, then... etc. Remember too, Dust had a very, very 'lenient' F2P system, however this game was also largely funded off EVE profits for most of it's life. There's always a catch. A game can't "just be free". Also, I'm not sure I agree with your attitude towards having a subscription-based FPS. To my knowledge that's never happened successfully. Why would Nova be different? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
XxBlazikenxX WarRavens Imperium Eden 5389	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:18:00 - [13] - Quote I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations. Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec. Beep beep!
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3000	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:22:00 - [14] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations. Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec. Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1) Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
XxBlazikenxX WarRavens Imperium Eden 5389	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:25:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations. Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec. Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1) Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory. Beep beep!
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3000	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:28:00 - [16] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations. Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec. Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1) Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory. Lol. It's all good mate. Sleep on it ;) Cheers. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
XxBlazikenxX WarRavens Imperium Eden 5389	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:30:00 - [17] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations. Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec. Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1) Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory. Lol. It's all good mate. Sleep on it ;) Cheers. Yep, not thinking clearly, gonna hit the sack, good night :D Beep beep!
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1231	Posted - 2016.10.14 06:38:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8697	Posted - 2016.10.14 14:37:00 - [19] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way. True but those sell for about a billion ISK now...which takes more than a handful of matches worth of time. Even with Alpha Clones you can still go anywhere and participate with anyone, there is no lockout of facwar or anything of the sort and largely you can train everything that makes sense for a player starting out. Do not confuse Alpha Clones as making EVE F2P. Alpha clones are simply a fancy way of saying "Un-timed demo" to give players a feel for EVE. For Nova I'd take the million ISK option over then $1 every time. Not that a dollar is much to me, but I'd be annoyed by the fact that I'm being charged just so I can play a certain match type. Id go out of my way to make sure I didn't spend real money on it just to make a point. But again I have a personal vendetta against being nickle and dimed to death just to get core gameplay features. It is absolutely the fastest way to turn me off from playing a game. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7946	Posted - 2016.10.14 15:42:00 - [20] - Quote I actually like it. If you buy an Officer License you should get a "Supporter" tag on your forum avatar to show you are financially supporting the game. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7946	Posted - 2016.10.14 15:55:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon makes a good point though. As long as they produce a lot of flashy Skins for sale, they should not have any trouble making a profit even with a completely Free to Play model. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7946	Posted - 2016.10.14 16:00:00 - [22] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP. There is the drawback that if you have to pay for the more advanced aspects of the game it might encourage more proto-stompping in PUBs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
General Vahzz 874	Posted - 2016.10.14 16:07:00 - [23] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP. There is the drawback that if you have to pay for the more advanced aspects of the game it might encourage more proto-stompping in PUBs. A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has skill and courage. You can shine up a potato turd but it is still gonna be a turd. I slaughtered many a proto in militia gear, because I'm not a shiny turd nugget. The Original Bastard. I am not a Goon, I pwomise.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7950	Posted - 2016.10.14 16:13:00 - [24] - Quote General Vahzz wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP. There is the drawback that if you have to pay for the more advanced aspects of the game it might encourage more proto-stompping in PUBs. A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has skill and courage. You can shine up a potato turd but it is still gonna be a turd. I slaughtered many a proto in militia gear, because I'm not a shiny turd nugget. I was worried more about the good players who did not want to pay to play the advanced modes, than I was about the crappy players who sell Mercenary Licenses to buy Proto gear. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3002	Posted - 2016.10.14 17:18:00 - [25] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way. True but those sell for about a billion ISK now...which takes more than a handful of matches worth of time. Even with Alpha Clones you can still go anywhere and participate with anyone, there is no lockout of facwar or anything of the sort and largely you can train everything that makes sense for a player starting out. Do not confuse Alpha Clones as making EVE F2P. Alpha clones are simply a fancy way of saying "Un-timed demo" to give players a feel for EVE. For Nova I'd take the million ISK option over then $1 every time. Not that a dollar is much to me, but I'd be annoyed by the fact that I'm being charged just so I can play a certain match type. Id go out of my way to make sure I didn't spend real money on it just to make a point. But again I have a personal vendetta against being nickle and dimed to death just to get core gameplay features. It is absolutely the fastest way to turn me off from playing a game. Well no problem with that, However I really don't agree it's necessary to have a vendetta against paying for a service... especially when you said you spent money anyways on the game? Anyways, the free option remains in my proposed system. All things considered, I think the proposed system is much more offering strong encouragement to keep paying, rather than forcing players to. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1235	Posted - 2016.10.14 23:27:00 - [26] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game. I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game. But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way. True but those sell for about a billion ISK now...which takes more than a handful of matches worth of time. Even with Alpha Clones you can still go anywhere and participate with anyone, there is no lockout of facwar or anything of the sort and largely you can train everything that makes sense for a player starting out. Do not confuse Alpha Clones as making EVE F2P. Alpha clones are simply a fancy way of saying "Un-timed demo" to give players a feel for EVE. For Nova I'd take the million ISK option over then $1 every time. Not that a dollar is much to me, but I'd be annoyed by the fact that I'm being charged just so I can play a certain match type. Id go out of my way to make sure I didn't spend real money on it just to make a point. But again I have a personal vendetta against being nickle and dimed to death just to get core gameplay features. It is absolutely the fastest way to turn me off from playing a game. I believe all F2P should be limiting with availability of all limited options by payment. So for me, Alpha Clones ARE F2P. Certainly, for CCP, that's the way they're seeing them.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3002	Posted - 2016.10.15 01:20:00 - [27] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I actually like it. If you buy an Officer License you should get a "Supporter" tag on your forum avatar to show you are financially supporting the game. Also, if people can buy the licenses and sell them on the open market for ISK, then CCP has the people with money in real life paying for the people who only have money in game. The 40 year old with a good job who dies too much to afford Proto suits can buy Mercenary Licenses and sell them on the open market to the 13 year old who is rocking in PC but does not have a credit card. Love the idea of a permanent "supporter" badge for those who buy the primo package - Edit: perhaps a unique SKIN only Officer license.holders get Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8707	Posted - 2016.10.15 05:38:00 - [28] - Quote We are going to cover this topic on the Biomassed podcast this Sunday. If you're interested in coming on to chat about your position (regardless of what it is) shoot me an email at [email protected] with your forum name and I'll get you the details on how to link up with us on Mumble. Show is this Sunday the 16th at 9PM Eastern www.biomassed.net if you havent heard of the show. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3003	Posted - 2016.10.15 05:53:00 - [29] - Quote Cool. Ill shoot you an email Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Viktor Hadah Jr 0uter.Heaven 10258	Posted - 2016.10.16 02:41:00 - [30] - Quote As if the entry barrier for PC was not high enough already. Keys and lockboxes are the root of all evil. 21 Day EVE Trial Bitches

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8713	Posted - 2016.10.16 18:46:00 - [31] - Quote As for this email I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3007	Posted - 2016.10.17 03:56:00 - [32] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As if the entry barrier for PC was not high enough already. I feel that's more an issue of terrible NPE and complete lack of matchmaking, and a progression path littered with cliffs and plateaus. Anyone who can't afford 1,000,000 ISK per month can't afford to do PC anyways. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3007	Posted - 2016.10.17 04:00:00 - [33] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: As of this post I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. Yeah, sorry, I got busy today. Hope it went well Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8718	Posted - 2016.10.17 04:52:00 - [34] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: As of this post I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. Yeah, sorry, I got busy today. Hope it went well No worries mate. Show is up: https://www.twitch.tv/biomassedpodcast/v/95437416 Full Show with cleaned audio and show notes will be available on www.biomassed.net in a few days EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3010	Posted - 2016.10.18 20:48:00 - [35] - Quote Just listened to the podcast. Good show. Wish I could have been there to clarify a few things! lol. I'll quickly respond to a few of the points here. The term "Walling-off" was used a lot, which really isn't accurate at all considering you could grind the 1M ISK in a few matches. And numerous other free ways to obtain. I know you guys mentioned the ISK option, but it was really overlooked overall with all the talk of 'players without credit cards' etc. One of my main objectives was to take players who are already buying AUR, and reward them more (without making it P2W). And here's my final reasoning on this: A game cannot just provide all of it's content for free. Dust was the best F2P model I've seen, but it was subsidized by profits from EVE ONLINE. My fear is that CCP will see the Dust model as a financial failure, and the next iteration will not be as good for us as it was with Dust. Personally, I don't think financing the game strictly through cosmetic items is enough. I'm trying to propose a system which preserves the benefits of Dust's system, while providing stronger encouragement for players to pay more on a regular basis, with special attention NOT to keep anything behind a "paywall". Anyways, be careful what you wish for! The financial system CCP implements may have you wishing for a system closer to this. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:30:00 - [36] - Quote Again I wish I could have had you on there to properly explain your position. I don't like having things feel one sided so I do apologize for that or for any misrepresentation of your idea. I do apologize for not covering the other options for obtaining the license aside from ISK and Cash. As they seem be a random chance of obtaining that would depend greatly on drop rates and required time to play to have a good chance of receiving one, I chose to stick with the more concrete and guaranteed ways of obtaining them. We did however cover the ISK option and the difficulty of finding the proper middle ground. The 1 million ISK option for example would, in my opinion, lend people to pick that option far more often than the dollar simply due the fact that it's free and easily obtainable from simply playing the game as you always do. I could be wrong in my prediction of player behavior but that's my personal opinion on the matter. Additionally I disagree that a game cannot offer all of its content for free. See games like League of Legends. Immensely popular and highly profitable with 100% of its content available for free (sans cosmetics of course). Cash can of course make things more convenient, but ultimately you can still access all of the game without spending anything. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you that players should be encouraged to spend cash on a regular basis as that is the cornerstone of a fiscally successful F2P game. However as a personal opinion, I feel that walling off or even making it more difficult to access game modes for free is a quick way to put rifts in your player groups. I would much rather explore other options for monetization (beyond cosmetics because you are right, it may not be enough) that don't restrict game modes with barriers of entry like that. I feel it's a dangerous line of thought that could get ugly very quickly if left unchecked and would rather avoid it entirely. That being said you still have an open invite to join us on the show to talk about this topic or any other. We may not agree on this particular issue but you clearly want to participate in good discussion and be constructive which is what we look for. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3011	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:38:00 - [37] - Quote Sounds good. Let me know the next one and I'll try to make it work Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
DUST Fiend 18799	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:38:00 - [38] - Quote Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Michael-J-Fox Richards Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 525	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:46:00 - [39] - Quote Nerp! Foolish pleb, the merc quarters in dust werent even unique, they are reused assets from eve, when you get out your ship on eve you are stuck all alone in the same apartment They arent going to make anything new like that for you, maybe if they make them for eve, in a couple years after that you MAY get a hand me down Ha ha ha, neckbeards with money talks, broke ass plebs walk Dude did you hear about charlie sheen
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:50:00 - [40] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Sounds good. Let me know the next one and I'll try to make it work Every week at the same time! EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3011	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:00:00 - [41] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:11:00 - [42] - Quote What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:19:00 - [43] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? I ain't 'Murican so I don't know what a 401K is... but no, I spent $0.00 on the warbarge... I never liked the warbarge, thought it was kind of silly that each merc apparently owned their very own warbarge. Like come on, really? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:26:00 - [44] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? I ain't 'Murican so I don't know what a 401K is... but no, I spent $0.00 on the warbarge... I never liked the warbarge, thought it was kind of silly that each merc apparently owned their very own warbarge. Like come on, really? 401k = Retirement savings And yeah warbarge was silly, and good example how an in-game alternative is so poorly scaled against the cash option that it quickly became impossible to level it up without cash because the in game option was so horrifically slow that the game literally got canceled before you could get close maxing it out. I'm not bitter >_> Honestly the way they handled the monetization of the war barge has made me very sensitive about that style of system when it offers an in game benefit. You can blame it for me apprehension about your idea so I'll admit I may be a tad biased :) EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:53:00 - [45] - Quote Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote: Nerp! Foolish pleb, the merc quarters in dust werent even unique, they are reused assets from eve, when you get out your ship on eve you are stuck all alone in the same apartment They arent going to make anything new like that for you, maybe if they make them for eve, in a couple years after that you MAY get a hand me down Ha ha ha, neckbeards with money talks, broke ass plebs walk I've played EVE, I'm aware. My points stands though, in either game. Though, EVE players are ultra sensitive sometimes, so who knows From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:55:00 - [46] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Well that's why for one, I suggest having a few different options, ranging from a slightly cooler merc quarters to something with multiple rooms and a really nice view. Also, it's very very far from a one time purchase. It's a one time purchase that opens the door to an endless amount of purchases. Couches, tvs, fridges, suicide booths, mirrors, air hockey tables, whatever stupid little thing they think of. If you could invite friends into the room, it would give more meaning to random purchases like that. This could also serve as an ISK sink for end game as everything bought with $$ should be available for a hefty ISK cost. If CCP ever wanted to push the boundaries and bring the EVE link back, they could possibly tie your room to a real station in EVE. Then, if you look through the window, it's a live feed to what's happening around the station in EVE. This could theoretically be applied to EVE as well. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:57:00 - [47] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Well that's why for one, I suggest having a few different options, ranging from a slightly cooler merc quarters to something with multiple rooms and a really nice view. Also, it's very very far from a one time purchase. It's a one time purchase that opens the door to an endless amount of purchases. Couches, tvs, fridges, suicide booths, mirrors, air hockey tables, whatever stupid little thing they think of. If you could invite friends into the room, it would give more meaning to random purchases like that. This could also serve as an ISK sink for end game as everything bought with $$ should be available for a hefty ISK cost. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:00:00 - [48] - Quote Don't forget the option of baking in monetization for player made bases. May that be cosmetics or accelerating construction times. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:01:00 - [49] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:04:00 - [50] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. Something has to pay for the game. In our case, Dust operated at a loss for most of it's life, effectively meaning EVE paid for this game for much of it's lifespan Join the DUST STEAM GROUP

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:06:00 - [51] - Quote Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:10:00 - [52] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. Something has to pay for the game. In our case, Dust operated at a loss for most of it's life, effectively meaning EVE paid for this game for much of it's lifespan It didn't help that they had to scrap the original build :/ I'm well aware that there's no free lunch (yet, the machines are changing this...) and at some point something's got to give, I'm just always wary of literally anything that gives any kind of in game advantage. I'm a big fan of cosmetics and player / group housing because things like that play into the social aspect and don't actually effect gameplay in any way. Again though, I understand the reality of the situation and to be honest if I had to choose between letting people buy boosters or just shelling out $60 for the game, I'd shell out $60 every single time. And yet these days that hasn't stopped even single player games from adding microtransactions, so again, just a reality of the situation. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:17:00 - [53] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? I'm sure the studio isn't big enough for it but I love what Star Citizen does, letting you pay monthly to get a digital magazine with dev updates and art, along with an in game vanity item each month (plus some other perks I think, can't remember). Honestly it's pretty hard to monetize an FPS without muddying the waters a bit with P2W, I think overall CCP did a pretty good job of it. Doesn't change that it puts me off a bit though. I'd kind of like the option to drop a few bucks or a ton of ISK to buy different AI voices though. It will forever be my dream to hear Samuel L. Jackson screaming at me to take B. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
General Vahzz 912	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:48:00 - [54] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? I'm sure the studio isn't big enough for it but I love what Star Citizen does, letting you pay monthly to get a digital magazine with dev updates and art, along with an in game vanity item each month (plus some other perks I think, can't remember). Honestly it's pretty hard to monetize an FPS without muddying the waters a bit with P2W, I think overall CCP did a pretty good job of it. Doesn't change that it puts me off a bit though. I'd kind of like the option to drop a few bucks or a ton of ISK to buy different AI voices though. It will forever be my dream to hear Samuel L. Jackson screaming at me to take B. Star Citizen also makes my beast of a rig look like a potato. The Original Bastard. Even as an alt, I still have more likes than you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.19 00:18:00 - [55] - Quote What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18801	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:03:00 - [56] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3014	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:05:00 - [57] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
DUST Fiend 18808	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:18:00 - [58] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Sounds fun :) On that topic, I would also love a vehicle only mode where you spawn in with your ship and can't get out. You can also choose to spawn on any free gun. Dammit I just want custom game modes And maybe some cinematic tools so we can make cool stuffs to make their game look better. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8736	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:30:00 - [59] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Sounds fun :) On that topic, I would also love a vehicle only mode where you spawn in with your ship and can't get out. You can also choose to spawn on any free gun. Dammit I just want custom game modes And maybe some cinematic tools so we can make cool stuffs to make their game look better. Yeah I mean my point is that the social space would allow you to spin up custom matches. You could buy a license that allows you into public social spaces, or you could donate to your corporation to keep your corporate space running. Completely unnecessary for core gameplay, but would I pay a couple bucks a month to participate in goofy player-made matches? You bet your ass. I still think the main game should have some game modes for smaller squad combat, but the custom stuff is a good example of something I would be totally OK with putting behind a pay wall since they're not "real" and there for entertainment purposes. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18808	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:47:00 - [60] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I still think the main game should have some game modes for smaller squad combat, but the custom stuff is a good example of something I would be totally OK with putting behind a pay wall since they're not "real" and there for entertainment purposes. I like the idea that anything you can buy for cash, you can buy for ISK. Even if that ISK cost is crazy, it could serve as a late game ISK sink and would allow dedicated players the chance to pick some things up free of charge now and again. If I were to ever pay a subscription for this game it would only be if I ran a corp (lol) and was able to rent out a district each month. It would have to have an in depth base building system with a max limit (adjusted by skills) so everyone is on similar footing when it comes to defenses. Do you flood your base with cheap weaker turrets and defenses or do you keep things compact with only the best money can buy? You could build your fortress and customize it how you like, giving your corp mates a place to explore, hang out, and practice. Everything would be destructable, giving purpose to vehicles and AV alike, allowing you to siege strategic points. Enemy vehicles and players could use modules to repair the defenses, creating dynamic tug of war situations, forcing players to adapt at a moments notice. This would also lend a very personal feeling to victory and defense, as what's more hilarious than trashing your friends house? Nothing God damn it. Nothing. In a distant future perhaps this could somehow be integtrated into EVE PI and tickle me so, Planetary Defense Batteries. Let me rent something like that each month, and you can take what little money this dirty poor has to spare From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8738	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:51:00 - [61] - Quote Ah yes, ISK equivalent would be fine, and Id be ok with a fairly high ISK price on that type of content. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
General Vahzz 914	Posted - 2016.10.19 03:54:00 - [62] - Quote slaps Pokey with white glove We go at dawn, you scoundrel! The Original Bastard. Even as an alt, I still have more likes than you.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3069	Posted - 2017.01.09 23:18:00 - [63] - Quote Since monetization being discussed... Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
deadpool lifetone D3ATH CARD RUST415 326	Posted - 2017.01.11 05:37:00 - [64] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I really like how CCP handled the F2P system, but was it the best option for them? Best for the community? Dust was not profitable on its own until the end of its life, and that definitely has an impact on development. I've thought of an alternative and curious what the community would think. It's a bit of a combination of total free-to-play and the PLEX route of EVE. Players would purchase a 'mercenary license' that allows them to participate in FW and PC for one month. Pubs are free. There would be different tiers of licenses with better perks for each. (The system I've imagined if it were applied directly to Dust) Unlicensed Militia Merc - FREE - not eligible to play FW or PC Level 1 Basic license - $1.00 OR 1,000,000 ISK - Allows players to participate in FW+PC for one month Level 2 Advanced License - $5.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $5.00 worth of AUR + 1 key Level 3 Prototype License - $10.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $15.00 worth of AUR + 1 key + 1 Booster Level 4 Officer license - $20.00 - Like above, but comes with more goodies, and maybe a longer license duration. Includes a unique SUPPORTER SKIN only available in this pack. You get the point.............. Discuss! . Great idea , they would have to mix it up a bit . keep a standard and separate different items . the standard should be 1$-20$ ( booster pack's / keys+boxes / skins+weapons+vehicles ) , free pubs , free fws , but PC should be grand and worth it with big reward's . I wouldn't put it per individual , I'll put it per corp fee ( not everybody can chip in individually ) . as a group ( 30+ people for example can chump change a good amount ) . but I agree with the notion that P.C should be in some way special . well that's a thought . . ( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? ) , (n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l\|l)/
Viktor Hadah Jr 0uter.Heaven 10358	Posted - 2017.01.11 21:23:00 - [65] - Quote Just reread the OP and the hairs on my neckbeard stood up with rage... Keys, can't we just get rid of these damn things. Holy fck does it pss me off to have items locked behind a lottery... Grrrr EVE Trial 250k Bonus SP Viktor's most hated words in Dust: "Vet" & "Retired"
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3081	Posted - 2017.01.11 21:42:00 - [66] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Just reread the OP and the hairs on my neckbeard stood up with rage... Keys, can't we just get rid of these damn things. Holy fck does it pss me off to have items locked behind a lottery... Grrrr Was there anything you could only obtain from lockboxes? Oh well, free game's gotta get supported somehow. Edit: Issue also irrelevant with a player market. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
byte modal 1164	Posted - 2017.01.11 22:15:00 - [67] - Quote Honest gut reaction after reading the first few replies? This makes me ...uneasy, to say the least. Unless the conversation took a wide turn on page two, then what I'm reading is "pay for end game content." I saw it noted that the license could be purchased for ISK as well, but even with that a precedence is made where a player can access progressive content only after paying a fee, whether in cash, or ISK, or cash to get ISK. There is no in-game progression incentive or requirement from that point forward. A few points for me: Do you honestly want to pay money to enter an FPS arena? There is no PVE, there is no level design for campaign mode progression. You are running a map shooting people and paying to do it. That is weird to me. That seems to be about the same as paying a monthly fee to arena or even battleground in WoW, where the arena is the only thing that exists in WoW. Granted, Warcraft has a sub, but that sub pays for the world. Not just arena. On the progression side, an argument can be made that "of course there is incentive for progression! As soon as you have your ass handed to you for entering PC/FW you have incentive to level up for better gear!" except that now, I am buying gear. I mean, why not? Slightly off topic (not really), but it is a strange transition that I am seeing play out as I get older. Before, I would buy a game with a one-time-fee and have that game forever to play indefinitely. Eventually, a subscription model came out and required a continued purchase agreement to maintain access to a game. Even DLC is an expansion of sorts, at least in theory. This was silly to me at first, but then I rationalized the continuing fee as an access point to an ever-evolving gaming world. So I eventually conceded and subbed a few games. Then micro-transactions started popping up. The game might have been free, and the purchases were not required as they were for novelty items. Novelty became boosters. Now it seems that boosters are becoming keys through locked doors. Pay to play...again. I see arguments for both sides. But I am very concerned that younger consumers are getting to a point where it is totally normal to pay subscription fees for anything. My company used to buy a license for various Adobe applications (primarily Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign). We might pay an average of $1,600 for a license that gave us those primary apps but in doing so we were also paying for secondary apps that we just did not need. From the licensee's perspective, that was acceptable because we had a license for what we needed and could expand our productivity should the desire or necessity demand it. Two years later, Adobe would release a major update and we had the option to purchase the update or continue working with our current version. Our work effort requirements rarely changed and the software updates were rather insignificant except for maybe every other or every third update. So we usually opted to keep our current version---without losing access to our single-purchase license. We might get 4-6 years out of our purchase before we found a true need or desire to upgrade and, at that point, we reinvested. Now we are subscribed to the CC plan and have been so for a while. While it is arguably more convenient to have immediate access to the latest updates, those updates are still relatively useless. Now we pay maybe $50 a month per license. That's about $3,600 over a six year window now compared to approximately $1,600 average per to use a license for the same time frame. The justification now comes down to convenience; however, convenience eventually leads to complacency in that we stop being aware of just how much we are spending over time. Complacency leads to ignorance that primes an individual to conveniently subscribe to the next whatever as that seems to be the shift now. It is mind-boggling. Now I see this post where users are actively proposing more ways to pay into something? I admit that my head twitched a time or three. I would argue that the financial faults of DUST514 were less to do with individual players not paying enough and more to do with the number of players from which a viable portion who might choose to pay was just too low. TL/DR:ranty rant-rant followed by not enough players. Funny, no? That we put the TLDR at the end of a post? After people have to read it? P.S. I will continue reading from where I left off once my blood pressure drops. ;) There was another major point, but I lost it in the desperation to jot these thoughts down before the stroke. Thank you for your patience. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3081	Posted - 2017.01.11 22:49:00 - [68] - Quote byte modal wrote: ... Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully I can clear some of that up. I liked Dust a lot, but CCP won't invest in it if it's not profitable. Dust was only profitable in the last quarter of it's life (or so I've read). Dust's F2P model was very generous. Nothing was behind a 'Pay-wall', and I'm not proposing anything be put behind a pay-wall. A lack of profit will always translate into a less-developed product. If you enjoy the game then it's in all our best interests for the game to be profitable. I went a long time without spending any money in Dust because I didn't need to. At the end I started buying things just for the sake of it, even tho I hated fitting aurum equipment. Made re-stocking a hassle. There are a few traditional ways of paying for a game Traditional - Purchase the game once and be done with it. Game is no longer worked on unless separate expansions added Free to Play - Paid for by micro-transactions, "boosting" player progression (or Pay to Win) or paying to bypass paywalls [These two options are more commonly being combined, with companies charging for the game, then holding back content as F2P-style micro transactions] Subscription Pay a monthly fee and have regular content added indefinitely. Based on how Dust's model was a cash-loss, it will likely be less generous than it was before anyways. I believe everybody can win tho by combining certain aspects of F2P and Subscription. In my opinion everybody can win this way - More money for CCP --> Better game - No pay-walls - No pay-to-win - More content for players. Do you see any specific downsides to the system I proposed? Who does not benefit? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
Mobius Wyvern Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance 8581	Posted - 2017.01.16 16:23:00 - [69] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: byte modal wrote: ... Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully I can clear some of that up. I liked Dust a lot, but CCP won't invest in it if it's not profitable. Dust was only profitable in the last quarter of it's life (or so I've read). Dust's F2P model was very generous. Nothing was behind a 'Pay-wall', and I'm not proposing anything be put behind a pay-wall. A lack of profit will always translate into a less-developed product. If you enjoy the game then it's in all our best interests for the game to be profitable. I went a long time without spending any money in Dust because I didn't need to. At the end I started buying things just for the sake of it, even tho I hated fitting aurum equipment. Made re-stocking a hassle. There are a few traditional ways of paying for a game Traditional - Purchase the game once and be done with it. Game is no longer worked on unless separate expansions added Free to Play - Paid for by micro-transactions, "boosting" player progression (or Pay to Win) or paying to bypass paywalls [These two options are more commonly being combined, with companies charging for the game, then holding back content as F2P-style micro transactions] Subscription Pay a monthly fee and have regular content added indefinitely. Based on how Dust's model was a cash-loss, it will likely be less generous than it was before anyways. I believe everybody can win tho by combining certain aspects of F2P and Subscription. In my opinion everybody can win this way - More money for CCP --> Better game - No pay-walls - No pay-to-win - More content for players. Do you see any specific downsides to the system I proposed? Who does not benefit? Again, though, Dust didn't make as much money because it failed to cash in on one of the biggest cash cows of free-to-play games, which is cosmetics. Notice that the game started to make more money after they put all the SKINs in? If they put in a variety of SKINs of various complexity at a good range of price points, the income will pretty much take care of itself. That's also not even counting things like SP boosters. I mean, I'd prefer those not be there and they adopt a purely micro-transaction funded model like games such as Path of Exile have done, but that's entirely dependent on their marketing team and what they think they need to do to make the game profitable. Cosmetics were a huge part of why Dust initially didn't have a lot of income as a F2P title though. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
byte modal 1173	Posted - 2017.01.16 18:19:00 - [70] - Quote First, I applaud the enthusiasm in the OP. My criticism is not in that. I do believe though, you are going way out of your way to find a solution to a problem that likely doesn't exist. Basically, you're trying to change the oil when really you just have a flat tire. For my arguments on the downside, please refer to my earlier post. Also, reference Mobius Wyvern's comments. While we're sort of focusing on slightly different things, I think both views are based on practical and holistic observations to work with what we know existed and the known restrictions in that environment, rather than assuming very specific cause-and-effect consequences to justify what (at least in my opinion) is a rather extreme suggestion. Mobius: if I'm misreading you, then my apologies. kitten bacon taco (nom)

Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1304	Posted - 2017.01.16 18:34:00 - [71] - Quote Why should I have to pay money on a F2P game to take part in fac war or PC? Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3099	Posted - 2017.01.17 01:26:00 - [72] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: If they put in a variety of SKINs of various complexity at a good range of price points, the income will pretty much take care of itself. "If we have SKINs income will take care of itself"... probably the most naive viewpoint I've heard so far on this topic. It does not work that way. Not everybody likes SKINs, fewer people like ALL the skins. A lot of people purchased a SKIN or two for their favorite suits, but SKINs are in now way anything close to a final solution for how to finance this game. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1304	Posted - 2017.01.17 16:41:00 - [73] - Quote My problem isn't paying money, while i saw your system would allow for people to buy a way to play PC using isk, which is great, I shouldn't have to pay in order to be able to take part. It's not EVE online where having a subscription makes your clone better and it stops people making ults that can just pop cynos in a risk free clone. Cosmetic items would generate more revenue than a subscription of a $1 a month. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3099	Posted - 2017.01.17 18:45:00 - [74] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: My problem isn't paying money, while i saw your system would allow for people to buy a way to play PC using isk, which is great, I shouldn't have to pay in order to be able to take part. It's not EVE online where having a subscription makes your clone better and it stops people making ults that can just pop cynos in a risk free clone. Cosmetic items would generate more revenue than a subscription of a $1 a month. Sorry, but "I shouldn't have to pay" is just not valid (even though you wouldn't have to with this system, you'd basically just be encouraged to buy Aurum). A game is a service, which requires money to develop and maintain. Cosmetics do not automatically guarantee indefinite profit. If CCP can't profit off this game, then they won't make it at all. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
byte modal 1176	Posted - 2017.01.17 19:44:00 - [75] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: My problem isn't paying money, while i saw your system would allow for people to buy a way to play PC using isk, which is great, I shouldn't have to pay in order to be able to take part. It's not EVE online where having a subscription makes your clone better and it stops people making ults that can just pop cynos in a risk free clone. Cosmetic items would generate more revenue than a subscription of a $1 a month. Sorry, but "I shouldn't have to pay" is just not valid (even though you wouldn't have to with this system, you'd basically just be encouraged to buy Aurum). A game is a service, which requires money to develop and maintain. Cosmetics do not automatically guarantee indefinite profit. If CCP can't profit off this game, then they won't make it at all. sorry, but saying "it's not valid" because you disagree is... well. not valid. your words. If the game is F2P then by definition it is valid that the player should not have to pay to play. Revenue is, instead, brought in through optional in-game/app transactions that serve to enhance the player's experience. In-app micro-transactions exist for a reason. And they are profitable. No one is denying that a game developer needs income to support itself. That is a given. You seem to continually redefine your opposition's argument to an extreme that you then counter to justify your assumptions. He did not type "cosmetics automatically guarantee indefinite profit." You typed that as a misrepresentation of what he actually said, which was that "cosmetic items would generate more revenue than a subscription of $1 a month." it was a reasonable comparison. Again, I think you are trying to change the oil of a car to fix a flat tire. You can distort the opinions of those around you to make your assumptions seem more reasonable in contrast, but the reality here is that your entire basis for profit is off. Not recognizing the criticism from those that offer it is... well. silly. Good luck all the same. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3099	Posted - 2017.01.17 20:36:00 - [76] - Quote byte modal wrote: . Rather than waste time in a mult-paragraph back and forth. I'll just ask you a question. The system we had in Dust was very generous and convenient for us players, but it didn't work. CCP lost money, therefore will not try the exact same thing again. What do you propose then as an alternative which would be profitable enough for CCP to want to build Nova? The basic opposition I'm getting is in fact along the lines of: "Keep the system we had, but earn money from SKINs". In fact, I've heard no other alternatives from so far. So no, my representation is correct. 1.) So what do you propose? 2.) Who specifically would not benefit from the Sub-F2P hybrid? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
byte modal 1176	Posted - 2017.01.17 22:49:00 - [77] - Quote I responded in my original reply that I believe the fundamental problem was player count and retention. Increase count, and you arguably increase revenue. I may very well be wrong, but I do not believe DUST514 is a good case study to draw hard conclusions from as the player base was simply too low on average. CCP did say that they were turning a profit near the end doing what they were doing. Sure there's the argument as to whether it was right or wrong or practical or efficient, but that's another topic. They saw profits. Tweak the system progressively and let it find equilibrium. Increase player count, and it stands to reason that profits increase as well. Without the risk that comes with changing the core product. I mean product as a commodity. In my opinion, DUST simply did not have enough players. Other developers profit off of in-game purchases. To suggest that this model does not work ignores all games that do work. Again, I think it is unfair to use DUST as a single point of proof of that assumption because it is a poor example to begin with. To my "changing the oil to fix a tire" comment, I mean to say that I do not think transactions specifically need to change. I believe obvious improvements within the game will make a bigger impact. To insure the game is profitable enough for CCP to build NOVA, my answer is to first attract a larger market through a better game. Not by charging to gain access to game zones. How? Basically what they are probably trying to do already: A. Improving/correcting core game mechanics. They appear to have already done that, at least based on the demo. B. Improving balance between teams to help avoid a repeat in protostomping mentality. C. Make better use of EvE-like philosophies of player access tiers. Start players in a new-player friendly zone and give them access to move forward as desired. It doesn't matter much how this happens, but it needs to be addressed. New players need to learn and advance at their relative progression level to feel confident enough to risk investing money into a suicidal meat-grinder experience. D. Provide proper PVE level learning objectives to help direct new players. Whatever that may be. Again, this is all to help guide new ignorant players to the philosophies of the EvE/DUST/LEGION/WTFever play style and attitudes. E. Market the damn thing properly. F. Provide something to the player type that wants to explore (PVE). ...or whatever. CCP can do ANY number of things to improve the game to make it more attractive to new players while offering more than a protostomp environment that will send kids running. Ultimately, increasing player numbers should increase playing purchases. If not, then reevaluate! But I do not believe measuring DUST with all of its flaws is a valuable indicator of potential profit---which is what seems to be going on. Improve the game to be as desirable as possible for a wider community, within the limits of the game's spirit of course. If profits do not change still, then at least you have a much clearer idea of what is failing. You know, it's like troubleshooting anything really. Start small and go through the list of possible errors. Once you rule out an error, check it and move to the next. By the end of the check, you find the issue and move on. Otherwise, you're all over the place rebuilding the foundation every time you want to make a change effectively creating a whole new list of undiscovered bugs to resolve ...again. I won't derail this thread any more. If that's what I'm doing, then my apologies! Carry on. I'll keep quiet from here on. At least I'll try ;) kitten bacon taco (nom)
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3099	Posted - 2017.01.17 23:16:00 - [78] - Quote Okay, thanks for the response. So basically, you're saying leave monetization the same (since you haven't proposed any changes to that), but just improve the game and more people will play, and buy cosmetics... That's wishful thinking, but I don't think they'll do that. The business people in charge of making money will be saying something a long the lines of: We lost money on Dust, what are we going to do differently this time? Dust saw a spike in revenue at the end when the shiny new SKINs came out, but that's not sustainable. Once people have a SKIN, they have it forever, most aren't going to keep buying them regularly. Would you? All I'm proposing is that players be encouraged to purchase around $5 of Aurum/month, and yet if they don't want to, it's very easy to bypass. You also didn't answer which type of player it is who does not benefit from what I proposed. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP 100+ members and growing!
Russel Moralles Klandatu 137	Posted - 2017.01.17 23:34:00 - [79] - Quote 3 to 5 $ monthly sub. Is that too much. I will pay that much for a eve fps. 07
DeadlyAztec11 9813	Posted - 2017.01.21 01:48:00 - [80] - Quote Russel Moralles wrote: 3 to 5 $ monthly sub. Is that too much. I will pay that much for a eve fps. 07 A $36 to $60 yearly subscription fee is steep. It would make more sense if the the price dropped off if you chose a longer subscription. So maybe $5 per month, but $30 up front for a year? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.



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