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DUST Fiend wrote:

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a **** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated)

People eat that **** up

If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot.

Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time.

By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on.

- I had the skins I wanted
- I didn't need any aur items
- Boosters didn't do much for me
- I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then...

With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it.

Well that's why for one, I suggest having a few different options, ranging from a slightly cooler merc quarters to something with multiple rooms and a really nice view.

Also, it's very very far from a one time purchase. It's a one time purchase that opens the door to an endless amount of purchases. Couches, tvs, fridges, suicide booths, mirrors, air hockey tables, whatever stupid little thing they think of. If you could invite friends into the room, it would give more meaning to random purchases like that. This could also serve as an ISK sink for end game as everything bought with $$ should be available for a hefty ISK cost.

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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8713	Posted - 2016.10.16 18:46:00 - [31] - Quote As for this email I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3007	Posted - 2016.10.17 03:56:00 - [32] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As if the entry barrier for PC was not high enough already. I feel that's more an issue of terrible NPE and complete lack of matchmaking, and a progression path littered with cliffs and plateaus. Anyone who can't afford 1,000,000 ISK per month can't afford to do PC anyways. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3007	Posted - 2016.10.17 04:00:00 - [33] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: As of this post I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. Yeah, sorry, I got busy today. Hope it went well Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8718	Posted - 2016.10.17 04:52:00 - [34] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: As of this post I have not received any emails requesting info to come onto the show. If you did send an email, please check the address and try again. You'll need some time to get set up so please send it well in advance so we can get your audio sorted out ahead of time. Yeah, sorry, I got busy today. Hope it went well No worries mate. Show is up: https://www.twitch.tv/biomassedpodcast/v/95437416 Full Show with cleaned audio and show notes will be available on www.biomassed.net in a few days EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3010	Posted - 2016.10.18 20:48:00 - [35] - Quote Just listened to the podcast. Good show. Wish I could have been there to clarify a few things! lol. I'll quickly respond to a few of the points here. The term "Walling-off" was used a lot, which really isn't accurate at all considering you could grind the 1M ISK in a few matches. And numerous other free ways to obtain. I know you guys mentioned the ISK option, but it was really overlooked overall with all the talk of 'players without credit cards' etc. One of my main objectives was to take players who are already buying AUR, and reward them more (without making it P2W). And here's my final reasoning on this: A game cannot just provide all of it's content for free. Dust was the best F2P model I've seen, but it was subsidized by profits from EVE ONLINE. My fear is that CCP will see the Dust model as a financial failure, and the next iteration will not be as good for us as it was with Dust. Personally, I don't think financing the game strictly through cosmetic items is enough. I'm trying to propose a system which preserves the benefits of Dust's system, while providing stronger encouragement for players to pay more on a regular basis, with special attention NOT to keep anything behind a "paywall". Anyways, be careful what you wish for! The financial system CCP implements may have you wishing for a system closer to this. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:30:00 - [36] - Quote Again I wish I could have had you on there to properly explain your position. I don't like having things feel one sided so I do apologize for that or for any misrepresentation of your idea. I do apologize for not covering the other options for obtaining the license aside from ISK and Cash. As they seem be a random chance of obtaining that would depend greatly on drop rates and required time to play to have a good chance of receiving one, I chose to stick with the more concrete and guaranteed ways of obtaining them. We did however cover the ISK option and the difficulty of finding the proper middle ground. The 1 million ISK option for example would, in my opinion, lend people to pick that option far more often than the dollar simply due the fact that it's free and easily obtainable from simply playing the game as you always do. I could be wrong in my prediction of player behavior but that's my personal opinion on the matter. Additionally I disagree that a game cannot offer all of its content for free. See games like League of Legends. Immensely popular and highly profitable with 100% of its content available for free (sans cosmetics of course). Cash can of course make things more convenient, but ultimately you can still access all of the game without spending anything. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you that players should be encouraged to spend cash on a regular basis as that is the cornerstone of a fiscally successful F2P game. However as a personal opinion, I feel that walling off or even making it more difficult to access game modes for free is a quick way to put rifts in your player groups. I would much rather explore other options for monetization (beyond cosmetics because you are right, it may not be enough) that don't restrict game modes with barriers of entry like that. I feel it's a dangerous line of thought that could get ugly very quickly if left unchecked and would rather avoid it entirely. That being said you still have an open invite to join us on the show to talk about this topic or any other. We may not agree on this particular issue but you clearly want to participate in good discussion and be constructive which is what we look for. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3011	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:38:00 - [37] - Quote Sounds good. Let me know the next one and I'll try to make it work Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
DUST Fiend 18799	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:38:00 - [38] - Quote Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Michael-J-Fox Richards Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 525	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:46:00 - [39] - Quote Nerp! Foolish pleb, the merc quarters in dust werent even unique, they are reused assets from eve, when you get out your ship on eve you are stuck all alone in the same apartment They arent going to make anything new like that for you, maybe if they make them for eve, in a couple years after that you MAY get a hand me down Ha ha ha, neckbeards with money talks, broke ass plebs walk Dude did you hear about charlie sheen
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:50:00 - [40] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Sounds good. Let me know the next one and I'll try to make it work Every week at the same time! EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3011	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:00:00 - [41] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:11:00 - [42] - Quote What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:19:00 - [43] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? I ain't 'Murican so I don't know what a 401K is... but no, I spent $0.00 on the warbarge... I never liked the warbarge, thought it was kind of silly that each merc apparently owned their very own warbarge. Like come on, really? Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:26:00 - [44] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What, you didn't want to sink your 401k on upgrading your Warbage? I ain't 'Murican so I don't know what a 401K is... but no, I spent $0.00 on the warbarge... I never liked the warbarge, thought it was kind of silly that each merc apparently owned their very own warbarge. Like come on, really? 401k = Retirement savings And yeah warbarge was silly, and good example how an in-game alternative is so poorly scaled against the cash option that it quickly became impossible to level it up without cash because the in game option was so horrifically slow that the game literally got canceled before you could get close maxing it out. I'm not bitter >_> Honestly the way they handled the monetization of the war barge has made me very sensitive about that style of system when it offers an in game benefit. You can blame it for me apprehension about your idea so I'll admit I may be a tad biased :) EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:53:00 - [45] - Quote Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote: Nerp! Foolish pleb, the merc quarters in dust werent even unique, they are reused assets from eve, when you get out your ship on eve you are stuck all alone in the same apartment They arent going to make anything new like that for you, maybe if they make them for eve, in a couple years after that you MAY get a hand me down Ha ha ha, neckbeards with money talks, broke ass plebs walk I've played EVE, I'm aware. My points stands though, in either game. Though, EVE players are ultra sensitive sometimes, so who knows From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:55:00 - [46] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Well that's why for one, I suggest having a few different options, ranging from a slightly cooler merc quarters to something with multiple rooms and a really nice view. Also, it's very very far from a one time purchase. It's a one time purchase that opens the door to an endless amount of purchases. Couches, tvs, fridges, suicide booths, mirrors, air hockey tables, whatever stupid little thing they think of. If you could invite friends into the room, it would give more meaning to random purchases like that. This could also serve as an ISK sink for end game as everything bought with $$ should be available for a hefty ISK cost. If CCP ever wanted to push the boundaries and bring the EVE link back, they could possibly tie your room to a real station in EVE. Then, if you look through the window, it's a live feed to what's happening around the station in EVE. This could theoretically be applied to EVE as well. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:57:00 - [47] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Selling us different merc quarters will all kinds of goodies to fill it with would be a great way to earn $$$ without interupting balance. Make them cost a ** load of ISK and make them account bound so you can't buy with cash to get ISK. Room with a view of Jita, anyone? (even if it's just simulated) People eat that ** up If people could join in on your room, it would encourage sales a lot. Problem is a merc quarters would be something you purchase once. The proper business model is to encourage regular income, or in the case of a game, for players to continue paying over time. By the end of Dust I wanted to support CCP, but literally had nothing to spend money on. - I had the skins I wanted - I didn't need any aur items - Boosters didn't do much for me - I guess keys were the only things I wanted, and even then... With this system I would have been happy to buy the $5 or $10 pack each month and get the bundle of goodies along with it. Well that's why for one, I suggest having a few different options, ranging from a slightly cooler merc quarters to something with multiple rooms and a really nice view. Also, it's very very far from a one time purchase. It's a one time purchase that opens the door to an endless amount of purchases. Couches, tvs, fridges, suicide booths, mirrors, air hockey tables, whatever stupid little thing they think of. If you could invite friends into the room, it would give more meaning to random purchases like that. This could also serve as an ISK sink for end game as everything bought with $$ should be available for a hefty ISK cost. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:00:00 - [48] - Quote Don't forget the option of baking in monetization for player made bases. May that be cosmetics or accelerating construction times. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:01:00 - [49] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3012	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:04:00 - [50] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. Something has to pay for the game. In our case, Dust operated at a loss for most of it's life, effectively meaning EVE paid for this game for much of it's lifespan Join the DUST STEAM GROUP

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:06:00 - [51] - Quote Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:10:00 - [52] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Customization is always good. But I don't think enough players (in this niche shooter) will buy enough merc room stuff to have this really make any financial impact on the game. I don't know anyone who even spent money on the warbarge and that "affected gameplay"... Honestly it would probably be better in EVE since there's a lot more menu surfing in that game. I wouldn't expect something like this to carry the revenue stream, especially considering the potential cost to develop. You could even possibly have corp HQs for sale where a bunch of people could hang out. Honestly I just want to see less boosters but I know it's an easy sell for CCP so they're here to stay. Something has to pay for the game. In our case, Dust operated at a loss for most of it's life, effectively meaning EVE paid for this game for much of it's lifespan It didn't help that they had to scrap the original build :/ I'm well aware that there's no free lunch (yet, the machines are changing this...) and at some point something's got to give, I'm just always wary of literally anything that gives any kind of in game advantage. I'm a big fan of cosmetics and player / group housing because things like that play into the social aspect and don't actually effect gameplay in any way. Again though, I understand the reality of the situation and to be honest if I had to choose between letting people buy boosters or just shelling out $60 for the game, I'd shell out $60 every single time. And yet these days that hasn't stopped even single player games from adding microtransactions, so again, just a reality of the situation. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
DUST Fiend 18800	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:17:00 - [53] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? I'm sure the studio isn't big enough for it but I love what Star Citizen does, letting you pay monthly to get a digital magazine with dev updates and art, along with an in game vanity item each month (plus some other perks I think, can't remember). Honestly it's pretty hard to monetize an FPS without muddying the waters a bit with P2W, I think overall CCP did a pretty good job of it. Doesn't change that it puts me off a bit though. I'd kind of like the option to drop a few bucks or a ton of ISK to buy different AI voices though. It will forever be my dream to hear Samuel L. Jackson screaming at me to take B. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
General Vahzz 912	Posted - 2016.10.18 23:48:00 - [54] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Can you think of other options that encourage monthly expenditure that don't compartmentalize game modes? I'm sure the studio isn't big enough for it but I love what Star Citizen does, letting you pay monthly to get a digital magazine with dev updates and art, along with an in game vanity item each month (plus some other perks I think, can't remember). Honestly it's pretty hard to monetize an FPS without muddying the waters a bit with P2W, I think overall CCP did a pretty good job of it. Doesn't change that it puts me off a bit though. I'd kind of like the option to drop a few bucks or a ton of ISK to buy different AI voices though. It will forever be my dream to hear Samuel L. Jackson screaming at me to take B. Star Citizen also makes my beast of a rig look like a potato. The Original Bastard. Even as an alt, I still have more likes than you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8726	Posted - 2016.10.19 00:18:00 - [55] - Quote What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18801	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:03:00 - [56] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 3014	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:05:00 - [57] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
DUST Fiend 18808	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:18:00 - [58] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Sounds fun :) On that topic, I would also love a vehicle only mode where you spawn in with your ship and can't get out. You can also choose to spawn on any free gun. Dammit I just want custom game modes And maybe some cinematic tools so we can make cool stuffs to make their game look better. From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8736	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:30:00 - [59] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What if player created social spaces followed a model similar to what is proposed by OP? Would give you access to dueling (1v1 me bro) or gambling, ect. Not integral to core gameplay but still something you would want to do because it's fun. Dueling would be cute but I think a 4v4 or 6v6 squad only mode could be pretty tight. I suggested several times a CS:GO/Socom inspired game mode : 6v6, no vehicles, limited to a city socket, one life only, 9 rounds. :) What could have been... Sounds fun :) On that topic, I would also love a vehicle only mode where you spawn in with your ship and can't get out. You can also choose to spawn on any free gun. Dammit I just want custom game modes And maybe some cinematic tools so we can make cool stuffs to make their game look better. Yeah I mean my point is that the social space would allow you to spin up custom matches. You could buy a license that allows you into public social spaces, or you could donate to your corporation to keep your corporate space running. Completely unnecessary for core gameplay, but would I pay a couple bucks a month to participate in goofy player-made matches? You bet your ass. I still think the main game should have some game modes for smaller squad combat, but the custom stuff is a good example of something I would be totally OK with putting behind a pay wall since they're not "real" and there for entertainment purposes. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18808	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:47:00 - [60] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I still think the main game should have some game modes for smaller squad combat, but the custom stuff is a good example of something I would be totally OK with putting behind a pay wall since they're not "real" and there for entertainment purposes. I like the idea that anything you can buy for cash, you can buy for ISK. Even if that ISK cost is crazy, it could serve as a late game ISK sink and would allow dedicated players the chance to pick some things up free of charge now and again. If I were to ever pay a subscription for this game it would only be if I ran a corp (lol) and was able to rent out a district each month. It would have to have an in depth base building system with a max limit (adjusted by skills) so everyone is on similar footing when it comes to defenses. Do you flood your base with cheap weaker turrets and defenses or do you keep things compact with only the best money can buy? You could build your fortress and customize it how you like, giving your corp mates a place to explore, hang out, and practice. Everything would be destructable, giving purpose to vehicles and AV alike, allowing you to siege strategic points. Enemy vehicles and players could use modules to repair the defenses, creating dynamic tug of war situations, forcing players to adapt at a moments notice. This would also lend a very personal feeling to victory and defense, as what's more hilarious than trashing your friends house? Nothing God damn it. Nothing. In a distant future perhaps this could somehow be integtrated into EVE PI and tickle me so, Planetary Defense Batteries. Let me rent something like that each month, and you can take what little money this dirty poor has to spare From dust we rose through trials young as legions run through countless souls; resting dreams within the boundless nova.



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