Part of the problem is that the 2012 tourney was held on a server in the room (it was a beast), using a heavily nodded Eve and Dust client on a LAN with the sever.

While the concept is a sound one and something similar has been done in the past it was done by a significantly larger Dust team and a Reykjavik studio that was fully invested in the idea.

As I'm sure you're all aware the work involved in getting OB's to work at all was huge, involving Dust and Eve Dev's and took a really big bite out of Eve's annual Dev cycle. And as a feature it was used by 1% of the 1%. OB's are cool but in terms of bang for buck it was like NASA's annual budget going to design a better firecracker.

For CCP to put in that kind of effort again they'd have to be certain of a bigger return of their investment than what they got with Dust.

And this is the other part of the problem. Dust is dead.

Project Nova is different game, on a different format, created from the ground up by an almost completely new team and an Executive Producer who is more grounded and fixed on what is actually deliverable and not cool looking fluff with a limited scope of player participation.

As such the current team pretty much feel that they're not beholden to the promises made for a now defunct game. That is not to say they are lacking ambition, far from it. I've had some pretty cool 'what if' discussions with Logicloop, Frame and Rattati. But they are now much more focused first and foremost on making a very fast paced, fun shooter, deserving of its place in the New Eden lore before any considerations as to it being directly connected to that world is given.

It must work well as a shooter before anything else lest it go the same way as Dust did.

...
The idea I'm about to present assumes a larger-scale model for Territorial Warfare such that the power of orbital strikes is controlled by the size of the available battlefield. It also assumes the presence of functional orbital defense weapons on the surface as we were originally proposed back in 2012, and that a Commander is also present with an RTS-style interface of the battle from the MCC, also proposed in 2012.

My idea is basically the following:
An EVE player can equip a module that let's them link with the "District Satellite" and is then given an overhead map of the battle zone

The EVE player can drop strikes at will, but the map has a VERY slow update rate (10 or even 20 seconds), making dropping strikes dangerous

The commander in the MCC can "prioritize updates" in a region of the map that then causes that part of the map to update every second for the EVE player connected

Orbital defense weapons will automatically engage the EVE player if they stay over the "District" for too long. This prioritizes being in contact with Nova forces on the ground such that they can disable those dangerous installations.

In an ideal world, this could be combined with CCP Habakuk's dream of one day having the orbital bodies in EVE behave properly and actually move in which case we could use a simplified system like having the satellites fixed in space while the planet rotates beneath them (or whatever is simpler on the backend). If the EVE player can only drop strikes while they're overhead, it means they have to periodically reposition which would help fight the fatigue of just sitting in one spot in space for ages waiting for that targetting pop-up that all of us who did orbitals in Dust are intimately familiar with.

Barely any EVE players did orbital strikes because they were painfully boring and the infrequent nature of them meant that they honestly had little impact anyway. I believe that a system that's more active and fluid and relies on more cooperation on both sides could make the experience of dropping strikes exciting for players of both games.
...

Most of us have heard CCP Rattati's statement at FanFest about orbital strikes, and about how the "1% of the 1% ever actually did them". While I have no doubt that is true, what occured to me is that I don't think the current team is taking into account the lackluster way in which the system was designed, and how boring it was for both sides.

From other side... boring 1% :D
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYV-MIs98JA&list=PLJ4gUz4hn3AK9T6yDBqGEbLi3pcMzY3g2&index=7
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPBv9-J82w0&index=8&list=PLJ4gUz4hn3AK9T6yDBqGEbLi3pcMzY3g2
Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dduCvn_XGtE&index=9&list=PLJ4gUz4hn3AK9T6yDBqGEbLi3pcMzY3g2
Part 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYoCTiDVv5U&index=10&list=PLJ4gUz4hn3AK9T6yDBqGEbLi3pcMzY3g2

A big part of the boredom was the lack of feedback, or any info, about what was happening down there.
Sure, being on comms gave you a picture, especially on casual games where you can chat more.

But, for a game to be entertaining, there should've been (at least when linking to satellite):
- info about who is fighting who
- who's winning (mcc damage in case of Dust514)
- stats like kills-per-minute (imagine the satisfaction of seeing that boost upon a successful orbital strike!)

- and finally something that was not reasonable to implement but on the wishlist anyways: a map screen. Even without intel would've been nice. With tacnet - omg grab the popcorn!


Edit: sure the killmails. but more was needed.

With the orbital experience myself and my buddies had, we saw different problems.

>On the eve side it wasn't actually boring- they had to worry about being hunted by other eve players. Every once in a while I heard "Oh ****, he found me, going to have to break off"

>The biggest issue we had was coordination. Dust players can hop around the galaxy in a matter of seconds. Eve players have to fly there. Most of it just came down to luck that we ended up in a battle close enough for the eve player to actually move in and support in time.


I like your idea, but I'm just throwing out what I've seen.

Very true. The risk would have been offset by people working in groups, but the experience being so boring really disincentivized anyone actually coming along just for defense. The coordination was also made a problem because except for PC, you never knew where you were going to have to deploy to.

Could easliy be fixed by letting Nova players choose planets in systems which would be really siginifacnt if it worked out.

Sure.. but all 'ground' work in Nova was burried with Dust 514 (no more - for now - planets).
Now we have choice to choose what Eve capital weapon can hit istalation/ship in you are fighting actualy.

With racial resists this can be neat tactical feature who will be fry inside :)

I love your general ideas, Mobius, but if I may, I'd like to suggest a few of my own.

One thing I would find interesting is if instead of a map update rate that instead the EVE ship had something more "controllable" in something I would call a Firing Solution. In short, you can drop your OBs when you want on the map but instead of seeing a dot, you see a circle. The circle's radius being determined by some factor of your ship's speed, ammunition type, a time modifier, and a beacon modifier.

In short the circle would get smaller on these conditions:

• The slower you move, the smaller the circle
• The more ammunition would work on a precision < - > damage scale
• The longer you wait between firings, the smaller the circle
• If a beacon is present, you can target it for a flat reduction in size. (25%, 50%?)

Whenever a pilot chooses to fire, the -center- of the OB can be anywhere in that firing solution circle. (Potentially causing part of the blast radius to occur outside of it) thus giving a clear risk / reward metric on several factors, a few of which the pilot is directly in control of.

The time modifier would be such that if a pilot were to wait for about 2 min (The old OB wait timer if I recall correctly) then the time modifier on size would become x1 (or perhaps down to x0.9) so that if a pilot were to treat it exactly as they had before, then the time would not be a factor. Of course, they could always go for a saturation approach, and hope for luck...

What this would also allow is that the pilot can act independently of any side's beacons, laying down positions where they think it best.

To this end, I would also like to see EVE ships have more fitting modules (low / med slots) that allow for more support roles than just laying down cover fire.

Options to this end could include: A map wide scanner (at low db), a focused area scan (at higher db), and then ewar options such as suppressing scans (lowing scan ability of other team), and should vehicles ever be enabled, perhaps a module that can allow for automated "drop pod" style vehicle delivery. (As in it comes straight down, lands safely at last moment) that consumes some sort of resource. (nanites, probably ;D)

This would allow a pilot who is engaged in Void Support to have multiple options all the time, where they can weigh the risks / rewards of those actions.

I'd prefer an update rate to a continuation of the timer model, but you do suggest some good ideas.

Mid-slot support modules to assist the fighting sounds like a fun way to shake things up and give the EVE pilot more to do than fire their guns.

Something else that I actually just thought of that I think would be neat:

I talked about satellites moving over the planet to create windows of opportunity, right? Well, what I should have clarified is I meant that as in low-orbit like in Templar One, around 200-250 km above the surface. That'll require some resolution increases for planet surfaces, but I think the experience of being that close will be worth it.

This would also open up the opportunity to allow missiles for Orbital Strikes. The range can be easily explained through them being a special ammo type and flying down into gravity requiring less fuel.

Missiles could be fired by the EVE pilot, and then the Nova Commander is shown when the missiles will arrive and can try and designate targets for them, making using them an active team effort.

That sounds like it could be a good bit of work depending on how much increased resolution on these planets. (If they don't exist, it would be absurd amounts of work)

However, I would also suggest, that like in Templar One, going down that low to a planet confers some effects onto an EVE ship, much like being in a special wormhole system.

Perhaps something that would make it harder to scan for, but also easier to damage / destroy?

Most of us have heard CCP Rattati's statement at FanFest about orbital strikes, and about how the "1% of the 1% ever actually did them". While I have no doubt that is true, what occured to me is that I don't think the current team is taking into account the lackluster way in which the system was designed, and how boring it was for both sides.

Part of what I'm working on right now is studying to take the Air Traffic Standardized Aptitude Test, and one of the test portions combined with a conversation with Leither Yiltron brought me to an idea.

During the tournament they did between EVE and Dust at FanFest 2012, the timer on the satellite recycled every 30 seconds, and that was part of what made the EVE strikes seem so dangerous, even though they still required someone on the ground to designate them.

The idea I'm about to present assumes a larger-scale model for Territorial Warfare such that the power of orbital strikes is controlled by the size of the available battlefield. It also assumes the presence of functional orbital defense weapons on the surface as we were originally proposed back in 2012, and that a Commander is also present with an RTS-style interface of the battle from the MCC, also proposed in 2012.

My idea is basically the following:

• An EVE player can equip a module that let's them link with the "District Satellite" and is then given an overhead map of the battle zone
• The EVE player can drop strikes at will, but the map has a VERY slow update rate (10 or even 20 seconds), making dropping strikes dangerous
• The commander in the MCC can "prioritize updates" in a region of the map that then causes that part of the map to update every second for the EVE player connected
• Orbital defense weapons will automatically engage the EVE player if they stay over the "District" for too long. This prioritizes being in contact with Nova forces on the ground such that they can disable those dangerous installations.

In an ideal world, this could be combined with CCP Habakuk's dream of one day having the orbital bodies in EVE behave properly and actually move in which case we could use a simplified system like having the satellites fixed in space while the planet rotates beneath them (or whatever is simpler on the backend). If the EVE player can only drop strikes while they're overhead, it means they have to periodically reposition which would help fight the fatigue of just sitting in one spot in space for ages waiting for that targetting pop-up that all of us who did orbitals in Dust are intimately familiar with.

Barely any EVE players did orbital strikes because they were painfully boring and the infrequent nature of them meant that they honestly had little impact anyway. I believe that a system that's more active and fluid and relies on more cooperation on both sides could make the experience of dropping strikes exciting for players of both games.

Anyone got anything to add? Suggestions or parts of this you think could be changed?

i do like how you can still view dust players youve killed in eve tho