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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3884
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Posted - 2016.06.09 09:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
As some of you in the Dust Vets Discord will attest to from my game status on the Discord server I've been playing a LOT of Fallout 4.
Now I want to make this clear, right now this is very low on the list of priorities for the team in Shanghai but theres still a lot of things that I would've liked to happen on the PS3 in terms of the social and corporate structure for player run Merc corporations but for many technical reasons didn't happen.
Those technical restrictions are somewhat lifted with the game coming to PC so I've been thinking more about them and my time on Fallout 4 has crystallised my thinking a bit.
I've been getting a little obsessive about the resource gathering and putting in place a supply chain in order for me to create and build the settlements up into oasis's in the wasteland. And its occurred to me and I'm sure to many of you too, that this is an interesting avenue that those corps not interested in the political power play of a feature like Planetary Conquest can get behind.
Having some sort of resource gathering within the game and not even part of the overall Eve economy could be used to enhance the look and perhaps even add functionality to a corporations ability to run itself that doesn't rely on a skill tree for the CEO but instead requires the corp members to pool together to help create it.
For example, in Fallout 4 once you have accessed the workshop in a settlement, your first point of business is to built a recruitment beacon from the junk (resources) that you have. The elements you need to do this that are the hardest to get hold of are Copper and Crystals.
Perhaps in Nova the first thing a player or group of them need to do in order to start a corporation is to purchase or build Nova's equivalent of the Recruitment Beacon, allowing them to advertise their corp to not only existing players but perhaps even players just starting the game and in the middle of player creation. Then you could go onto facilities like a mail server for corp text communication, leading to a module for operate chat channels either via text or voice comms. Corp fittings and hangers could also then be added.
The point being that the basic stuff required to run a corp could be attained easily but then the other facilities later on requiring a greater and combined effort from the corp members to attain it.
I'd also put some limits to the growth and the direction for it go such as each facility needing Power, CPU and physical space. As the Corp HQ grows then it becomes a target itself from raiding parties, requiring that some sort of defences be put in place to make it a less inviting target.
Carefully considered and with balancing the mechanic can be structured so that there is natural tipping point for when a Corp begins to overstretch itself and needs to scale down its operations to prevent that or make a concerted effort to overcome that tipping point.
Also, this could be a great source of monetisation for the game. Yes, its an ugly word but its how CCP pays for the development of the game without going into a subscription route. As long as all the resource can be gathered in game as well then for me it wouldn't be a problem.
So what are your thoughts on this notion? I've floated some of them with the Shanghai team and like I said earlier its something thats very low on the things to do list but when we get to the point of being able to do it it'll be good to know what the community thinking is on this.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3884
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Posted - 2016.06.09 10:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just occurred to me that like the scarring on clones in Eve that have used Skill Injectors there could be some sort of cosmetic difference in purely resource gathered corps and AUR funded ones.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8205
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Posted - 2016.06.09 11:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Just occurred to me that like the scarring on clones in Eve that have used Skill Injectors there could be some sort of cosmetic difference in purely resource gathered corps and AUR funded ones. Scarring? What do you mean?
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7772
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Posted - 2016.06.09 11:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like building stuff. I like the idea of the Corp members contributing to help build a Corp and add social and aesthetic customization to the Corporate holdings. I am not sure I would favor this particular implementation of that, but I support the overall concept.
How about the ability to build a Corporate Headquarters, which would be a large room (or set of rooms) with proximity chat functionality, so that you can walk up to someone in your Corp and start talking to them. Members would be in their Merc Quarters when they log in, but have the option to transport to the Corporate Headquarters. Then you can hang out and meet other Corp members while you wait to form a squad or while queued for battle.
This would open up many options for Corp Headquarters customization. (It would also make EVE players jealous.)
If Nova if really an advancement over DUST, then maybe we will be able to sit on the couch!
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8205
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Posted - 2016.06.09 13:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crap, I didn't realize I didn't even respond to your idea.
I love it, honestly. You should keep thinking along lines like this.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback. Control-Alt-Duvolle
8767
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Posted - 2016.06.09 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Also, this could be a great source of monetisation for the game. Yes, its an ugly word but its how CCP pays for the development of the game without going into a subscription route. As long as all the resource can be gathered in game as well then for me it wouldn't be a problem.
Letting players bypass build timers with AUR is one option. That's what Warframe did with construction timers for Dojo rooms and decorations. Using resources to build items for the dojo also gave me a reason to grind Warframe for a while.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback. Control-Alt-Duvolle
8767
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Posted - 2016.06.09 13:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:If Nova if really an advancement over DUST, then maybe we will be able to sit on the couch! I would also like to see an 'upgrade' to Jara Kumora's assets.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
860
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Posted - 2016.06.09 13:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Neat idea
Dustkillz and chill
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8286
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Posted - 2016.06.09 15:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Huge fan of this. I have an obsession with base building in any game so this would be a welcome addition.
Lots of avenues you could take it as well such as PvE invasion of your HQ.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Zaurek
DUST University Ivy League
43
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Posted - 2016.06.09 15:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well, first thing that came to my mind were sadly bots...
Eve Online have problems with them and its subscription based with limited trial option. I imagine in f2p game it would become even bigger problem if those resources could be traded in some way.
As for idea itself from regular players point of view... Idk. Depends how it would work.
But if you compare it to mining in Eve Online then "Obligatory Mining Ops" come to my mind, so again, not something I would look forward to.
I'm all in for building stuff together. But only if its very resistant to exploits. |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8286
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Posted - 2016.06.09 15:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Players could also have their own Mercenary Quarters that are customizable and accessible through the corp HQ but travel with the Merc to the new corp in the situation where they change corps.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3887
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Posted - 2016.06.09 16:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bots are a major concern obviously. Its just not a problem that we have on consoles.
That being said there are very few developers as good as CCP for spotting and dealing with bot users. And they are very harsh with the punishments.
Also if the resources are gathered via gameplay in a FPS game it'll be next to impossible for a bot to play against human players without drawing attention to itself.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22494
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Posted - 2016.06.09 16:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
The concept is cool and would be cooler still if it allowed players to really customize their social spaces rather than working towards a generic end game MQ.
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8287
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Posted - 2016.06.09 16:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:The concept is cool and would be cooler still if it allowed players to really customize their social spaces rather than working towards a generic end game MQ.
I'm thinking a snap map of sorts with various rooms and connecting halls that can be arranged as you desire.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22494
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Posted - 2016.06.09 17:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:The concept is cool and would be cooler still if it allowed players to really customize their social spaces rather than working towards a generic end game MQ.
I'm thinking a snap map of sorts with various rooms and connecting halls that can be arranged as you desire.
I was kind of hoping for something a little different from the preset rooms you might see in Warframe. I was hoping you would be able to put more personal touches on your rooms with themes and other aesthetic touches.
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8287
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Posted - 2016.06.09 17:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
I was kind of hoping for something a little different from the preset rooms you might see in Warframe. I was hoping you would be able to put more personal touches on your rooms with themes and other aesthetic touches.
Well that's fine too, I was speaking in a broader sense. But more in depth customization would be fun, just don't want to get too crazy with it.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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jordy mack
WarRavens Imperium Eden
1381
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Posted - 2016.06.09 17:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
i havent played the new fallout or many games that have stuff like this but....
my ultimate dream would be customisable district layouts, thats it, pretty simple. but make it pretty detailed like halo's forge map editor thing. sure you could make it complicated and have different resourses or build timers, or you could just use your mercs hard earned isk. eventually i would hope to have the option to do all 3 depending on if i am in a mining,production, or war based corp.
thanks for reading.
Less QQ more PewPew
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DUST Fiend
18366
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Posted - 2016.06.09 17:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
As someone who's spent much of their 400+ hours in fallout building settlements, I love settlements. That said, it makes me sad to think even one second of time is going into brainstorming this over putting vehicles back into the game correctly. God speed, but maybe Sims doesn't need to be in Nova until a few years out.
Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire.
AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3889
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Posted - 2016.06.09 18:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is just something that I've floated to CCP in our chats and there is zero Dev time being used on it. It's an end goal that I think could have real benefits in terms of community cohesion.
Rattati and the team have much bigger stuff to worry about than my dream scenario. But obviously once the basic game mechanics are in place and polished, they'll be starting to think more about what can make Nova so much different from your usual FPS game. Given the lore and history of the merc's in New Eden, I think that the Shanghai team have some serious ammo in that regard.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Avallo Kantor
1167
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Posted - 2016.06.09 20:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Interesting Ideas
I like the idea of corporate structures / facilities that allow groups to define themselves. Going to look at EVE, similar systems are in place via the placement of various structures in space, currently in the form of Citadels, that can be customized to allow a corp to operate in their desired fields. In this way a corp can have manufacturing, trade, or defensive facilities set up based on the corporations own investment and choices. On the smallest scale, small mining corps set up facilities to ease reprocessing of minerals, to the largest scale of Hard Knocks setting up the Keepstar (Fort Knocks) in their wormhole space which in its own way shapes the very political, military, and mechanical landscape of the universe.
Allowing corporations in DUST a similar mechanic to both define themselves and shape the universe is a strong step in helping players feel invested both in their player groups and the larger world of New Eden as a whole. After all, players are more likely to fight to protect -their- home over some generic map.
On the other hand, from a game design standpoint, it is important to note some differences between games like Fallout 4 and a Multiplayer Focused game like NOVA (potentially ONLY multiplayer at launch) In Fallout the settlements are nice, and enjoyable, but ultimately a side activity that could even be ignored. As such, they have great flexibility in adding hurdles in setting up a settlement as the establishment of one is a goal of this part of the game. In contrast, a multiplayer game -requires- some form of cooperation, and the goal should be to put as few hurdles as possible for players banding together. As such I would advise strongly against any notion of having to set up "recruitment beacons" or the like for corps to form or begin recruiting. The end goal in a multiplayer game like EVE or DUST or NOVA is to get -everyone- involved in some sort of social group, and as such the mechanics to setting up groups should be as simple as possible.
Of course, while setting it up should have no issue, a -good- player organization will need investment put into it, and should have means and ways of allowing players to work together to improving the state of their group. I would argue EVE already has several good mechanics to this, and with the hope of integration in the future the two systems should be as similar as possible. In fact, I would just suggest them both having the same corp system in place, with perhaps more roles being added that are NOVA specific. To that end, the setting up of bases, collecting of resources that need to be pulled together, and construction of infrastructure should all work toward that goal. I would suggest that corps are very much able to dictate as much as possible including potentially having numerous bases set up. (With appropriate downsides and penalties to each choice)
Lastly, I would argue that in the spirit of New Eden, any choices made should be ones with both benefits and potential risks. Bases should be locations in the world that can potentially come under attack, and players should be given both a reasons to create and destroy such infrastructure.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1712
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Posted - 2016.06.09 21:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Bots are a major concern obviously. Its just not a problem that we have on consoles.
That being said there are very few developers as good as CCP for spotting and dealing with bot users. And they are very harsh with the punishments.
Also if the resources are gathered via gameplay in a FPS game it'll be next to impossible for a bot to play against human players without drawing attention to itself.
Has botting been a problem for PI in EVE? Seems CCP designed PI to be difficult to nigh impossible to bot the interface effectively.
You really have to decide where to place the structures to maximize resource gathering.
CCP logic GÇô NOVA isn't an actual product. It is only a project. We might not do it at all.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
3408
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Posted - 2016.06.09 23:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'll get back to this
A mighty wall will be built here. SOONtm
Pub chat "DeadMansGame"
Squads, rage, trolls, Qsyncs, CARNAGE.. and stuff.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13519
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Posted - 2016.06.09 23:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
I remember there being the Event Horizon Lounge that existed in PlayStation Home where PSHome players could enter a Dust 514 warbarge and talk to the bartender. I wish we still had that as a social gathering place.
Eve Online Invite
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13519
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Posted - 2016.06.09 23:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Bots are a major concern obviously. Its just not a problem that we have on consoles.
That being said there are very few developers as good as CCP for spotting and dealing with bot users. And they are very harsh with the punishments.
Also if the resources are gathered via gameplay in a FPS game it'll be next to impossible for a bot to play against human players without drawing attention to itself. Has botting been a problem for PI in EVE? Seems CCP designed PI to be difficult to nigh impossible to bot the interface effectively. You really have to decide where to place the structures to maximize resource gathering.
I agree. As a holder of many planetary colonies in Eve Online, it's a slight chore for a human to have to constantly adjust the camera to see the individual structures of each colony. Sure the camera automatically positions itself over the command center where a colony holder can just pile on the extractors and processors, extracting multiple types of materials from one planet makes it extremely difficult to pile them together if the best spots are so far away that you have to adjust the camera to get to them. Even if the colony holder splits the workload to multiple planets, that would end up being one of the most inefficient ways of making ISK from PI. Not to mention the fact that you are limited to 6 planets per character. I don't think I have ever heard of a PI bot these days.
Eve Online Invite
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
3412
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Posted - 2016.06.10 11:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hump
Pub chat "DeadMansGame"
Squads, rage, trolls, Qsyncs, CARNAGE.. and stuff.
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Terry Webber
WarRavens Auxiliaries
968
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Posted - 2016.07.28 19:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:The greatest wall in New Eden!! - Corp Armoury and Hangar (open feature to all Corps, maybe upgradable via a warbarge system) = Directors+CEO+TLO have access to stock gear and create Corporate fittings via Corp funds, then these roles along with TCO can have an option to make a Corp squad, doing so replaces each squad members fittings with the Corp fitting list. This opens options in both training and derping squads while adding some Corp immersion PCQ, the same system could apply, where your team then chooses from Corp fittings. ALL members can donate items to Armoury/Hangar.. only those with roles can alter them Add customizable skins to Corp fittings and that would be pretty cool. - Corp NotificationsAs a CEO with players across varied timezones.. contact is a pain, you either need to mail the entire Corp, or the 10 you need to contact, or just hang about and catch them online, having a noticeboard viewable by all members where posts can be left by CEO/Directors to make it easier to arrange events and battles with fellow Corps. - Corp RankingsDetermining anything from CP earning. DK bonus. ISK payouts in PCQ.. I'll leave this for the nerds One thing I would advise is a Recruit role, as a CEO who helped a long list of newbies.. it's not fun and after doing it for a while becomes the most hopeless grind in Dust.. and repetitive.. So to add a perk for both.. A Corp can have a max of 10? recruits at once, at the cost of them paying 50% higher Tax than Corp rate, they would also receive a bonus to SP earning, upto 10/15mil lifetime. This opens an avenue for newbies to seek Corp help, offers profit for Corps doing it.. and might just increase the turnover in players who beat the grind and continue to game in New Eden.. - Planetary ConquestAfter 4 years testing, and now moving to the platform we expect CCP to do well on.. this needs work - Sec status determining reward and blocking/hindering high level Corps from Attacks/Raids - Map adjustment, from turret installations, depots, CRUs being essential, anything else added such as the ability to edit infrastructure, move it, remove it. Maybe an option to position the defenders MCC?? - Timers.. to avoid another few years of uber leet Colorado man piles.. Each district controlled by a Corp is active during it's reinforcement timer if it is ONLINE, allowing players to deploy via Nova's battlefinder and keep you busy This would prevent hoarding multiple timers without the manpower to defend them.. and prevent Circlejerks from controlling things too easily.. and we have all seen how easy that was.. BBAACCKK IINN THHHEE PPPIILLLEEE - PVE. I am thinking, if a DMG district is ONLINE at 18:00 we and have a certain time frame to harvest materials from murderous drones (lore base - drones seek out non-hostile planets) and this opens up another option of being raidied, while you are tackling drones and imo some seriously fun gameplay I am really liking that this is being looked at, but before Monetization is brought into the picture, a lot of these should be open game mechanics and not behind paywalls, while I do think CCP should find an angle to profit from Corps I am strongly against them charging for features we had hoped to see a long time ago... I could go on all day So Kevall, if there is any specific feedback you want just ask Can you explain what TLO and PCQ stand for?
Inertial Booster Module
Vehicle Installation
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
13124
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Posted - 2016.07.29 06:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
You can get around the bots by making resource-salvaging an in-combat operation for PvP.
Make objective markers that will harvest resources, or mark resources for RDV collection in mid-battle.
Wreck a tank? Scrap that thing down for materials. Trash a few platoons of randoms? Claim their bodies and dropsuits for the biomass, materials and ISK needed to produce other things.
Are you the attecker on an operation? Blow up that vault and loot it while you're invading. Open up the door for resource raids where enterprising pirates loot what they need, and defenders earn their own by guarding the dragon's hoard.
You a minmatar loyalist? If so, I doubt jacking a few amarrian corps is going to ruffle your feathers at all, hell it could be your favorite pastime.
Gallente bored of working for CONCORD? Enlist yourself in a Faction battle, and take the opportunity to properly plunder the resources on the Caldari world you're assaulting.
Just not caring much about your employer? You can loot the vault yourself and blame it on the attackers (for a slight standings hit).
I would suggest that any activity where "Point harvester at rock, collect materials" is going to be a bot fiesta.
At least this way, when you have a bot harvester on the field, you can murder him and take his stuff without CONCORD blowing your ship up.
Yes, I am a Goon. No, I don't care about your spacepolitik.
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD RUST415
222
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Posted - 2016.07.29 21:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
. Everyone loved the concept of P.C ( Planetary Conquest ) , the issue was purely technical. Lag/Performance issues etc . Same goes for Factional Warfare .
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
,
(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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lamo guys
Corrosive Synergy
438
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Posted - 2016.07.30 05:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Honestly who wants to fight bots! I'll take my ass whopping by a human any day! I was never a slayer by any means but I would rather get my ass beat by a real player any day! I tried defiance and hate it, its like borderlands but with friends that have to shoot the **** out of everything a million times over. Make Nova great! Don't stray too far, but fix what was needed!.I Honestly think that is all you guys needed to do.
So far the game play looks relatively impressive to me but the whole class definition looks a little flat. Please don't dumb down this game to the point where its just pick and shoot! The best part of dust was the customized player! If you really wanted to play dust you learned the ins and outs. That's why most morrons found their way back to either battle field or COD! Nova or bust! My PC is almost ready, tomorrow I am putting it together.
When in doubt pull the forge out!!
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lamo guys
Corrosive Synergy
438
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Posted - 2016.07.30 05:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Off topic, we all know this game was well beyond its time and was held down by the ps3. It had one of the best in game mail systems and such. I have met so many great people with my time on dust! Some were assholes but you will have that anywhere. But most of us really want to shoot each other again!
When in doubt pull the forge out!!
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