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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.28 07:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP you must fix the SR sway, it's completely broken. I Dust 514 the sway it's not affected by movements while it should be that way. In real life & in FPS, the sway of the SR is determined by: your stance, your breathing rate. Now in Dust sway happens every single time you scope in: you can be crouched from entire minute, be perfectly still, scope in and an you still get sway = ??? The sway in Dust 514 triggers every time we press L1. Also now the scope stops moving completely but this is physically impossible: there is always a minimum sway/movement caused by breathing unless you use a tripod and this isn't the case.
The Sway should work like this:
Be based on Stamina: the less stamina you have left the more it will take for the Sniper to stabilize the aim.
Scope should never stop swaying while standing up, never!
Scope should still have minimum sway/movement even when crouched: the scope should never become completely still.
Sachvie Geedo proposed a "Hod Breath" mechanic (Sniper Simulation game have this). If CCP want the scope to stops moving completely this is the a great FPS mechanic, especially if sway is stamina based because it's already balanced: the more you hold breath, the more stamina you consume and so the sway would be higher after holding breath for long time.
Keep up the good work CCP.
P.S. You might say: this is the future, scopes can stop moving completely! Then why in 20k AD SR still have sway? Sway is a gamepaly mechanic and as such it must be believable and appropriate to the FPS way. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.06.28 07:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
a hint: power armour with hydraulic limbs. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.06.28 15:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:a hint: power armour with hydraulic limbs.
The there should be no sway when scoping either. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Templar Two wrote: It ha s been proposed a "Hod Breath" mechanic (Sniper Simulation game have this). If CCP want the scope to stops moving completely this is the only FPS mechanic that works (especially if sway is stamina based) because it's already balanced: the more you hold breath, the more stamina you consume and so the sway would be higher after holding breath for lo
Already exists, hold down L3 while scoped. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
^^^ Really?!! Anyway R3 it quite awkward to use, I have played FPS that used that solution and I would prefer to have that on R2...not to mention that it' very easy to inadvertently trigger a melee. I don't have time to check now but does it consume Stamina as well? |
Havok Razor
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Finn Kempers wrote:Templar Two wrote: It ha s been proposed a "Hod Breath" mechanic (Sniper Simulation game have this). If CCP want the scope to stops moving completely this is the only FPS mechanic that works (especially if sway is stamina based) because it's already balanced: the more you hold breath, the more stamina you consume and so the sway would be higher after holding breath for lo
Already exists, hold down L3 while scoped.
This does nothing at all in DUST. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.29 07:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have checked and there is no Holing Breath at all in Dust 514 now. |
Awiergan Snowcash
Doomheim
40
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Posted - 2012.06.29 07:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Scope should never stop swaying while standing up, never!
Have you ever actually fired a scoped rifle?
I personally find it easier to aim while standing; crouching just feels awkward. Unless you're firing prone, then the "sway" is going to be comparable regardless of whether you're standing or crouching. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.29 07:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
^^^ This is a video game pal; in FPS scopes always sways when standing up otherwise there is not need for couch. It's pure gamepaly mechanic.
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Awiergan Snowcash
Doomheim
40
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Posted - 2012.06.29 08:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ This is a video game pal; in FPS scopes always sways when standing up otherwise there is not need for couch. It's pure gamepaly mechanic.
I always assumed it was to make yourself a smaller target? |
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SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.06.29 08:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I disagree myself. i think it is great how it is now and just makes sense. yes it should sway for a moment when you first put it to your face and look down the scope. A moment after holding it scoped it stops swaying.
I am surprised how easy it is to have no sway, but it makes sense with the dropsuit. I say keep it how it is. I dont use it really, but those who do that I know seem to think it is fine.
Again, it just makes sense how it works right now. Especially considering the genre of the game. This is sci-fi. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.29 08:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I disagree myself. i think it is great how it is now and just makes sense. yes it should sway for a moment when you first put it to your face and look down the scope. A moment after holding it scoped it stops swaying.
I am surprised how easy it is to have no sway, but it makes sense with the dropsuit. I say keep it how it is. I dont use it really, but those who do that I know seem to think it is fine.
Again, it just makes sense how it works right now. Especially considering the genre of the game. This is sci-fi.
That's the problem pal: scopes that stops swaying completely are so cheap in FPS, really cheap, sci-if shooter or not. An not to mention that we have auto aim/aim assist. SR with no sway and aim assist are the cheapest thing ever. Really what's next: bullets that chase you around corners!? |
Darkz azurr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
105
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Posted - 2012.06.29 08:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Remember we are enhanced humans in the future with implants , biotics etc... It does shake around a lot if your stood up, and pretty much stops if you crouch. I find this ok because when crouched your a really easy target to hit, also you have to hit a heavy 3 or 4 times to kill them. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 07:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
^^^ I know but scopes should never stops swaying completely: a 2% sway should always remain. In A FPS it's more believable to have 2% scope sway than to see the scope stops completely. |
Inacurate Zamir
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.06.30 07:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Snipers have no incentive to move with current mechanics. You'll always be at a disadvantage until you scope and sway stops. So why are they going to move forward when they can sit back, be more effective and still reap some kind of reward even if they lose. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
^^^ As I said Perfect Scope Stabilization + Auto Aim makes sniping cheap. If stabilization were possible only if we "hold breath" sniping would be far more compelling and balanced IMO. |
Cherry Mercenary
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
No one that was competent with a sniper rifle in CoD even paid attention to sway or used the hold breath button. This isn't CoD, but it should be the same case. Having no sway isn't that big of an advantage in the first place. |
Kiso Okami
Militaires Sans Jeux
19
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Awiergan Snowcash wrote:Quote:Scope should never stop swaying while standing up, never! Have you ever actually fired a scoped rifle? I personally find it easier to aim while standing; crouching just feels awkward. Unless you're firing prone, then the "sway" is going to be comparable regardless of whether you're standing or crouching. Speaking of "prone"... Why is there no prone stance in this game? Am I missing something I forgot to check out in the manuals?
Prone position could be a great stealth and precision asset for sniping. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cherry Mercenary wrote:No one that was competent with a sniper rifle in CoD even paid attention to sway or used the hold breath button. This isn't CoD, but it should be the same case. Having no sway isn't that big of an advantage in the first place.
COD has no recoil whatsoever + auto aim: sway is purely aesthetic in COD, believe me. |
Cherry Mercenary
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Cherry Mercenary wrote:No one that was competent with a sniper rifle in CoD even paid attention to sway or used the hold breath button. This isn't CoD, but it should be the same case. Having no sway isn't that big of an advantage in the first place. COD has no recoil whatsoever + auto aim: sway is purely aesthetic in COD, believe me.
There's recoil, but that only hinders people going for multiple targets or bad players since you should be getting OSKO's in the first place. This game has aim assist too so what is your point? |
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 08:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cherry Mercenary wrote: There's recoil, but that only hinders people going for multiple targets or bad players since you should be getting OSKO's in the first place. This game has aim assist too so what is your point?
Read post 12 of this thread.
Anyway COD is an Arcade FPS: unrealistic recoil, aim assist, regenerative health, perks, etc... This is a FPS MMO and sway should be treated as in Military FPS or even better as in Tactical/Simulation FPS.
P.S. I don't hate COD. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.06.30 09:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Try crouching, you have no idea how many snipers i see not doing this...
why is aim assist being mentioned, most times your leading the target with the sniper and waiting for him to run by your cross hairs,doesnt appy to snipping as much as it does with the other close range weapons. |
Cherry Mercenary
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 09:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Cherry Mercenary wrote: There's recoil, but that only hinders people going for multiple targets or bad players since you should be getting OSKO's in the first place. This game has aim assist too so what is your point?
Read post 12 of this thread.
COD is an Arcade FPS: unrealistic recoil, aim assist, regenerative health, perks, etc... This is a FPS MMO and sway should be treated as in Military FPS or even better as in Tactical/Simulation FPS.
And I said that competent snipers generally ignore sway and used CoD as a relevant example. Not that I'm against it, but changing sway from the way it is now is such a negligible adjustment. Not having sway doesn't automatically make you a good sniper, nor does pose as that much of an advantage that it needs attention. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 09:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
^^^ You are 100% right: not having sway doesn't make you a good sniper. That comes from the skills of the player.
Not having sway at all, which now happen in 2-3 seconds after pressing L1, still makes SR shooting easier...aim assist does the rest. If you are moderately good now it's far easier to be a sniper in Dust 514 than in Battlefield or Killzone. |
Cherry Mercenary
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 10:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ You are 100% right: not having sway doesn't make you a good sniper. That comes from the skills of the player.
Not having sway at all, which now happen in 2-3 seconds after pressing L1, still makes SR shooting easier...aim assist does the rest. If you are moderately good now it's far easier to be a sniper in Dust 514 than in Battlefield or Killzone.
It never took me more than a second to scope in and kill someone in KZ, so neither of those thing really affect me. Take out aim assist so it isn't as easy for bad players to compete, and it's fine. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 10:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cherry Mercenary wrote: It never took me more than a second to scope in and kill someone in KZ, so neither of those thing really affect me. Take out aim assist so it isn't as easy for bad players to compete, and it's fine.
Killzone, which is my favourite FPS, has OHK sniper rifles and once you are crouched Sway is already reduced: here every time you press L1 scopes sways automatically regardless of you movements or stance. No to mention that in Killzone aiming sensitivity is far better than in this beta. |
Cherry Mercenary
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 11:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Cherry Mercenary wrote: It never took me more than a second to scope in and kill someone in KZ, so neither of those thing really affect me. Take out aim assist so it isn't as easy for bad players to compete, and it's fine.
Killzone, which is my favourite FPS, has OHK sniper rifles and once you are crouched Sway is already reduced: here every time you press L1 scopes sways automatically regardless of you movements or stance. No to mention that in Killzone aiming sensitivity is far better than in this beta. If I'm not scoping in to take care of one person really quick, I always have my reticle moving, so again, I don't even pay attention to sway. No, I haven't noticed the crouch thing since I only crouch when I'm trying to get behind cover. Killzone 3 is too fast paced and limited vantage points to stay scoped in too long and have tunnel vision. I think using the R700 in CoD4 was the only time sway actually bothered me in an FPS, but lagshooting was a big part of the Wii CoD games back then, so it was pretty hard to snipe in general.
Actually now I remember a couple of times in CoD where it helped to hold my breath when I was trying to hit someone that only had like one pixel visible through a small crack of space at an awkward angle. I guess there's that. I'd actually prefer they keep it as it is for those type of instances. Especially since that kind of thing can happen often when you're shooting from very long range.
w/e this topic is getting boring. idc if they change anything |
N3R7
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.06.30 16:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Don't care for scope sway at all. I figured in the future the suits would be set up to keep this to a minimum. Plus, I want something fun - sniping in 514 is currently a chore.
And 4 shots only before reloading is kinda painful. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.06.30 16:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Things work fine and no scope sway is not a problem. Especially since the snipers are pretty weak. Maybe if the damage was increased a lot.
This is a sci-fi. Realism is not needed here. You are in a powered drop suit with a computer helping control it. Standing steady is a very simple thing in that case. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.30 17:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nevertheless sway is broke because it triggers every Time you Press L1. This is definitely wrong because stabilization should be based on movement: sway stabilization should start as son as we stop moving and never trigger again if we haven't moved.
P.S. Side note: I proposed/pushed for more powerful/OHK SR long ago and was ignored. |
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