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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
514
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Medical Crash wrote:People that don't belong in our server. If you are 50,000 miles away from the most populated server, go away. There is only one server. I disagree with you, everyone should play with everyone, that is the only way to have a fully integrated sandbox where everything you do affects it. Goddamn this is an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up yet. I think most people agree that Phoenix should operate in more of a sandbox mode rather than a lobby mode, but in an FPS a ping of 100+ is near unplayable. Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server.
It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Soto Gallente
920
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Medical Crash wrote:People that don't belong in our server. If you are 50,000 miles away from the most populated server, go away. There is only one server. I disagree with you, everyone should play with everyone, that is the only way to have a fully integrated sandbox where everything you do affects it. Goddamn this is an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up yet. I think most people agree that Phoenix should operate in more of a sandbox mode rather than a lobby mode, but in an FPS a ping of 100+ is near unplayable. Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server. It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks.
Then what is to stop them from doing the same thing in the new EVE: fps?
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
87
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Won't someone think of the Australians?!
Poison jellyfish, great white sharks, the threat of Chinese military expansion, high ping, vicious kangaroo attacks, drop bears, the list goes on. I don't know how they do it. |
Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
516
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server. It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks. Then what is to stop them from doing the same thing in the new EVE: fps?
1 second server ticks (1-tick) would make it feel like you had a ping of 1000ms. For reference, CS:GO has 64-tick (~15ms) and 128-tick (~7.5ms) servers.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Soto Gallente
920
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server. It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks. Then what is to stop them from doing the same thing in the new EVE: fps? 1 second server ticks (1-tick) would make it feel like you had a ping of 1000ms. For reference, CS:GO has 64-tick (~15ms) and 128-tick (~7.5ms) servers.
Well, considering that the Tranquility server is constantly getting upgrades, would that help with anything?
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
518
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:
Well, considering that the Tranquility server is constantly getting upgrades, would that help with anything?
Playing Eve from Aus my ping to tranq is about 250ms, which is fine because the important commands that needs to be validated by the server are only updated once a second. Generally I'm at no disadvantage vs someone in London with a 10ms ping to tranq because we both have to wait for that once-a-second update. All the gameplay mechanics of Eve are based around the 1 second ticks, so it doesn't seem laggy.
For an FPS you need a much higher tick rate to make things seem smooth, so now you run into the problem of geographical location. If your ping is higher than the server tick rate all sorts of problems like bad hit detection come up (think of what happens with the high ping South American players).
Something is killing new player retention.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ticks are a coding thing, not a hardware thing.
It's how spreadsheets in space doesn't nuke the hardware via calculation overload. You cannot do that in an FPS.
Imagine a gigantic, shiny bug zapper.
Embrace your destiny.
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Sned TheDead
Y.A.M.A.H
1
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lag.
Not gonna happen, but still....
RAIN!
Sned T. Dead
I am Undead
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
So how big of an issue would varying pings be for PC Dust, and does CCP have any solid work around for the issue? |
Viktor Hadah Jr
0uter.Heaven
10
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lockboxes and triple stacking booster need to burn in hell till the end of time.
Keys and lockboxes are the root of all evil.
Buying dead and inactive corporations
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
520
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:So how big of an issue would varying pings be for PC Dust, and does CCP have any solid work around for the issue?
Up to a certain point varying pings don't really matter. San Fran to NY is about 75ms which is still quite playable but you might notice some weird edge cases.
However two people that are on different continents duking it out in an FPS would experience very noticeable latency issues. Unless some new internet technology comes around before the release of Phoenix I can't see how it'd be viable to have everyone PvP'ing on the same physical server.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
And how big of an issue will that be for the vision of a fully connected EVE/Dust?
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
520
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:And how big of an issue will that be for the vision of a fully connected EVE/Dust?
I can't see it having any impact unless you're expecting a Rifter to fly down into the battlefield and start pew-pewing mercs. OBs work because they don't rely on lining your sights up on a moving player. Markets and trading, districts changing ownership, chat, teleporting between star systems, etc all can work fine with once-a-second updates.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
And what about important battles, say a PC-esq match, involving an American Corp vs an Australian Corp, or a European Corp vs a South American Corp? Are we looking at lag levels equal to what we have now? Less? More? |
Soto Gallente
926
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:And what about important battles, say a PC-esq match, involving an American Corp vs an Australian Corp, or a European Corp vs a South American Corp? Are we looking at lag levels equal to what we have now? Less? More?
Definitely less if we are talking on PC and not decade old POS
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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jordy mack
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
i would prefer not to send my enemy a mail alerting them of my intention to attack them.
i could never understand this.
Less QQ more PewPew
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
523
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:And what about important battles, say a PC-esq match, involving an American Corp vs an Australian Corp, or a European Corp vs a South American Corp? Are we looking at lag levels equal to what we have now? Less? More?
Hard to tell because we don't know how much lag is attributed to the game itself vs peoples internet connection. You will always get the lag that comes from peoples internet connection, which is not insignificant for Australia -> US or Euro -> South America.
The absolute theoretical minimum (assuming 0 delays at either end and the server) for Melbourne, Aus to NY, USA is 107ms because the signal cannot travel faster than the speed of light. Obviously this time is never achieved in practice.
E: But Blaze is right, I would be very surprised if it wasn't less.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bad vehicle mechanics.
Top lel
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Lahut K'mar
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
166
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Train Depot 2.0: Redliner valley edition.
"If you want a vision of Dust 514, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
-George Orwell
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Lahut K'mar
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
167
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:OP, unbalanced gear that can be easily farmed and/or easily traded between players.
Campable spawns.
Super Mari-lol fits
1 Punch Man fits
Translation: Fun.
"If you want a vision of Dust 514, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
-George Orwell
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Soto Gallente
931
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lahut K'mar wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:OP, unbalanced gear that can be easily farmed and/or easily traded between players.
Campable spawns.
Super Mari-lol fits
1 Punch Man fits Translation: Fun.
I would be okay with the current iteration of myofibs put into the next game as long as there is actual physics in the game.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
601
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Posted - 2016.02.12 06:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP
But seriously, Dust 514 is an amazing list of mistakes and that list is exactly what I do not want to see in Eve FPS 2.0 |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
1
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Posted - 2016.02.12 11:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lahut K'mar wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:OP, unbalanced gear that can be easily farmed and/or easily traded between players.
Campable spawns.
Super Mari-lol fits
1 Punch Man fits Translation: Fun.
Game was fun before super jumps and power fists.
Purifier. First Class.
Legends never die
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
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Posted - 2016.02.12 13:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Medical Crash wrote:People that don't belong in our server. If you are 50,000 miles away from the most populated server, go away. There is only one server. I disagree with you, everyone should play with everyone, that is the only way to have a fully integrated sandbox where everything you do affects it. Goddamn this is an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up yet. I think most people agree that Phoenix should operate in more of a sandbox mode rather than a lobby mode, but in an FPS a ping of 100+ is near unplayable. Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?!
Agreed!
I'm Australian and can vouch that the network lag down here, to virtually any of the battle servers is deplorable. It is for EvE, too, for that matter, but EvE is all server based - the "hit detection" is a computer algorithm, so it's not really an issue. The problem then is client based activity and hit detection.
I'm sure that CCP has already thought a lot of this through, but it's an interesting mental exercise... :) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Murder Medic wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:I don't want round based gameplay in the next game Good luck with that one. It's important to have lobbies for people to just hop into. Instead of taking away other peoples fun, you should hope for a null sec planet to fight over or something like that, where it's just combat 24/7
No.
The whole point of the EvE Universe is constant, continuous war. Round based lobby shooters just don't fit in that world. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Medical Crash wrote:People that don't belong in our server. If you are 50,000 miles away from the most populated server, go away. There is only one server. I disagree with you, everyone should play with everyone, that is the only way to have a fully integrated sandbox where everything you do affects it. Goddamn this is an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up yet. I think most people agree that Phoenix should operate in more of a sandbox mode rather than a lobby mode, but in an FPS a ping of 100+ is near unplayable. Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server.
Yes, they do, but with EvE there is no "hit detection" issue. That's all controlled by algorithms on the server. The client is just for presentation and command input. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:I don't want round based gameplay in the next game Good luck with that one. It's important to have lobbies for people to just hop into. Instead of taking away other peoples fun, you should hope for a null sec planet to fight over or something like that, where it's just combat 24/7 I don't think Phoenix should be a game as much as it is a "space sim". That's right, I'm talking cities, battlefields, titan boarding parties, the like
... Just like Dust was supposed to be in the first place... :) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Medical Crash wrote:People that don't belong in our server. If you are 50,000 miles away from the most populated server, go away. There is only one server. I disagree with you, everyone should play with everyone, that is the only way to have a fully integrated sandbox where everything you do affects it. Goddamn this is an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up yet. I think most people agree that Phoenix should operate in more of a sandbox mode rather than a lobby mode, but in an FPS a ping of 100+ is near unplayable. Having two players from different parts of the world roaming around on the same planet is awesome and all but if they get into a firefight with each other one of them will likely be at a big disadvantage. How do you consolidate the two? Won't someone think of the Australians?! Well they do it in EVE: Online don't they? They have people from dozens upon dozens of countries all playing the game on one giant server. It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks.
It works in EvE because of server algorithms for "hit detection". |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:
It works in Eve because of 1-second server ticks.
Then what is to stop them from doing the same thing in the new EVE: fps?
The problem would be that you have to have client-side hit detection for a FPS. It's the client-side hit detection that's the problem with network lag in Dust. EvE doesn't have this problem, because EvE uses server algorithms for hit detection simulation. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Won't someone think of the Australians?! Poison jellyfish, great white sharks, the threat of Chinese military expansion, high ping, vicious kangaroo attacks, drop bears, the list goes on. I don't know how they do it.
lol
It's easy - you grow up with it so you learn to live with it. :) |
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