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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 07:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Danja Dom wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Draxus Prime wrote:These are some good builds, but the only issue is with the first few you can get a i3 instead of fx 6300, its leaps and bounds better then the 6300 in single core performance which is what matters for gaming. Just saying It may have been true a couple years ago, but not anymore. Thanks to the PS4/Xbox one, gaming (and computer software in general) is becoming more and more multithreaded, hence multicore CPU's like the FX 6300 stomp the i3. You also have to consider that this is the real world, not benchmarks. The user will have other things running on his computer. Skype, teamspeak, maybe an IRC client, some music playing, etc'. In these situations, the i3's dual core will be fighting to actually process the game itself, so you'll get horrible frame times. I've seen it with my own eyes. i3 is good in benchmarks, but they give you terrible overall experience. I3 is still better at gaming, already been proven a hundred times over in recent youtube vids also, fact is Intel is so much richer than AMD they haven't really got a chance, the damn pentium g3258 still beats fx 6300 in alot of games, the fx is just outdone by i3s when it comes to gaming.
Do I need to repeat myself?
Benchmarks are not real world usage.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Danja Dom
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
32
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Posted - 2016.02.09 07:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Danja Dom wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Draxus Prime wrote:These are some good builds, but the only issue is with the first few you can get a i3 instead of fx 6300, its leaps and bounds better then the 6300 in single core performance which is what matters for gaming. Just saying It may have been true a couple years ago, but not anymore. Thanks to the PS4/Xbox one, gaming (and computer software in general) is becoming more and more multithreaded, hence multicore CPU's like the FX 6300 stomp the i3. You also have to consider that this is the real world, not benchmarks. The user will have other things running on his computer. Skype, teamspeak, maybe an IRC client, some music playing, etc'. In these situations, the i3's dual core will be fighting to actually process the game itself, so you'll get horrible frame times. I've seen it with my own eyes. i3 is good in benchmarks, but they give you terrible overall experience. I3 is still better at gaming, already been proven a hundred times over in recent youtube vids also, fact is Intel is so much richer than AMD they haven't really got a chance, the damn pentium g3258 still beats fx 6300 in alot of games, the fx is just outdone by i3s when it comes to gaming. Do I need to repeat myself? Benchmarks are not real world usage.
Not going by benhmarks, going by actual gaming performance, from HANDS ON experience. Also digital foundry will confirm, wanna argue with thrm aswell as u seem to have a hard on for fx 6300.
"Rules were made to be broken"
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Cat Merc
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 07:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
When I'm back home with a keyboard I'll explain it more clearly. I'm on a phone right now.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Danja Dom
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
32
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Posted - 2016.02.09 07:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Im just letting u know i know from first hand real world testing, not benchmarks online. The fact that videos back this up just support the facts, but i have had both an fx 6300 and an i3 4130, and the i3 out did the fx in games without fail. Of course with same gpu.
"Rules were made to be broken"
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 07:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Danja Dom wrote:Im just letting u know i know from first hand real world testing, not benchmarks online. The fact that videos back this up just support the facts, but i have had both an fx 6300 and an i3 4130, and the i3 out did the fx in games without fail. Of course with same gpu.
I'm not saying the i3 won't outperform the FX in FPS numbers, but there's more to perfomance and the user experience than that. I'll explain it once I get home, with math, benchmarks, and real world usage examples.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
2
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Posted - 2016.02.09 09:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
That's probably what's best if you want an Intel alternative to the $500 build : http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FXkGK8
EDIT : Should be stickied
Game over.
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Cat Merc
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 09:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alright, now that I'm back home, I'll lay it out as simply as I can.
There are three reasons why I think the FX6300 is the better choice:
1. Better multi-threading support
2. More consistent experience
3. Better overall system performance
Now that I've laid it out, I'll explain each point:
1. Better multi-threading support is self explanatory. The i3 has 2 cores with 4 threads, while the FX 6300 has 6 cores (albeit slightly odd cores, but still cores.). The i3 has 4 threads thanks to multi-threading, but that in >best case< scenarios gives you 20% more performance. A tri core without multi-threading is still superior to a dual core with multi-threading.
Now the reason this is important is because of the Xbox One and PS4. They both have 8 core Jaguar CPU's, running at 1.8Ghz and 1.6Ghz respectively. As you can probably tell, they have abysmal single threaded performance, hence multi-threading in modern games is pretty much a must.
Modern games from now on and into the foreseeable future will all be quite heavily multi-threaded.
2. A modern PC doesn't just run a single game and is done with it. There are a lot of background programs and services that run. While that's not an issue if you have something overpowered for most games like a modern i5, for weaker CPU's like i3's or Pentiums, their already limited core count has to juggle all of those tasks AND the game. This causes poor frame times.
That's an important distinction, because frame times are not exactly the same as frame rates. Frame rate is how many frames per second, so lets say 60. Frame time is how consistent the frames are. In a best case perfect scenario of 60FPS, there is a new frame drawn to the screen every 16.6ms. However, there can be occasions where 1 frame is drawn in the first 500ms, and then the rest of the 59 frames are drawn in the other 500ms (very extreme scenario). That's where you see stutter. It will still be 60FPS, but it will be inconsistent and quite honestly, unplayable 60FPS.
https://youtu.be/G5ejBlynOV8?t=2m14s
If you look here, you'll see a frame time comparison on the right side of the screen. While it's hard to see due to clutter, the FX 6300 is the most consistent one there. That's simply due to it not having to waste cycles on switching tasks. This difference will only grow the more things the testing machine is doing. In benchmarks like with Digital Foundry, the PC's usually have very little to nothing running in the background, so it's not a real world representation of system load and performance.
3. The benchmarks you keep seeing online don't overclock their CPU's, so you don't see the FX-6300 in its full potential. Skylake generation processors have about a 50% advantage in IPC against AMD's latest FX CPU's. That means that they can do 50% more per core on the same Ghz. Core i3 6100 is locked at 3.7Ghz, can't overclock it. Meanwhile, the FX-6300 is a beautiful overclocker, and 95% of units can push themselves from the base 3.5Ghz all the way up to 4.5Ghz.
That's about a 30% improvement over all of the cores.
The FX 6300 at >base clock< is nearly identical to the i3 6300, rarely falling behind by more than 5%-10%.
I think you can easily see where I'm going with this. An overclocked FX-6300 eats the i3 6300 for breakfast,
The i3 also only has a pitiful 3MB cache, while the FX-6300 has more than 14MB of cache across multiple levels. That means the i3 is more dependent on fast memory, and it means that if you have bandwidth heavy tasks, the i3 will choke.
That's not to say there aren't advantages to the i3.
1. It uses less power
2. Generates less heat
3. Has DDR4 memory, which is quite quickly becoming cheaper than DDR3, and is faster and consumes less power.
In the end, the FX 6300 is the best bang for the buck in my honest opinion.
I will make an i3 build and link this explanation, and let the buyer decide. But I still stand by my original build.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
29
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Posted - 2016.02.09 09:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Danja Dom wrote:Im just letting u know i know from first hand real world testing, not benchmarks online. The fact that videos back this up just support the facts, but i have had both an fx 6300 and an i3 4130, and the i3 out did the fx in games without fail. Of course with same gpu.
I've always found the insistence that 'statistics are wrong and my views are right' to be a curious phenomenon.
Everything has to come to an end, sometime.
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Cat Merc
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 10:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
I added the Intel alternative systems.
Let me know if there's anything more you want to know, or if you disagree with my analysis.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 10:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
There's a fantastic deal going on here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1224099-REG/intel_core_i5_6600k_3_5_ghz.html/mode/edu
Basically a free 120$ motherboard. I would highly recommend for anyone shopping for a PC in that price range.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Danja Dom
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
35
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Posted - 2016.02.09 13:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Your reply is pretty spot on, the one thing i think we both left out is upgrade path, im sure you will agree intel is a better option for this, do if they went i3, they could upgrade to i5 or i7 in future as long as the motherboard doesnt die lol
"Rules were made to be broken"
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Danja Dom
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
35
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Posted - 2016.02.09 13:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Danja Dom wrote:Im just letting u know i know from first hand real world testing, not benchmarks online. The fact that videos back this up just support the facts, but i have had both an fx 6300 and an i3 4130, and the i3 out did the fx in games without fail. Of course with same gpu. I've always found the insistence that 'statistics are wrong and my views are right' to be a curious phenomenon.
The statistics back up my view, soooo i dont know what you are trying to say lol
"Rules were made to be broken"
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 13:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Danja Dom wrote:Your reply is pretty spot on, the one thing i think we both left out is upgrade path, im sure you will agree intel is a better option for this, do if they went i3, they could upgrade to i5 or i7 in future as long as the motherboard doesnt die lol
That's a very good point.
The AM3+ socket is a dead end one.
Only way up from here is the 8350.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
715
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Posted - 2016.02.09 13:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Danja Dom wrote:Your reply is pretty spot on, the one thing i think we both left out is upgrade path, im sure you will agree intel is a better option for this, do if they went i3, they could upgrade to i5 or i7 in future as long as the motherboard doesnt die lol That's a very good point. The AM3+ socket is a dead end one. Only way up from here is the 8350.
Part of the reason I'm waiting 'till we have system requirements and/or a release date to make builds is that AM4/Zen-microarchitecture are expected soon, so not only should AM3/AM3+ builds get cheaper, but there will be newer options from AMD out on the field to consider.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 14:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Danja Dom wrote:Your reply is pretty spot on, the one thing i think we both left out is upgrade path, im sure you will agree intel is a better option for this, do if they went i3, they could upgrade to i5 or i7 in future as long as the motherboard doesnt die lol That's a very good point. The AM3+ socket is a dead end one. Only way up from here is the 8350. Part of the reason I'm waiting 'till we have system requirements and/or a release date to make builds is that AM4/Zen-microarchitecture are expected soon, so not only should AM3/AM3+ builds get cheaper, but there will be newer options from AMD out on the field to consider.
A couple points.
First, we have general system requirements straight from the horses mouth. They're targeting mid range PC's, with R9 380 and GTX 960 being considered as high end. It's not a guarantee by any stretch, but it should tell you what they're trying to do.
Second, these builds are here for people who want to get into PC gaming now. I intend to either edit this thread or make a new one once Zen, Pascal, and or Polaris arrive.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Cat Merc
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.09 17:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/OlWYujH.jpg
This is a pretty dank meme if I do say so myself.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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Scalesdini
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
469
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Posted - 2016.02.10 15:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:http://i.imgur.com/OlWYujH.jpg
This is a pretty dank meme if I do say so myself.
0/10, you only post this to feel better about the fact your 390 is going to melt your case one of these days. |
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.10 16:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Scalesdini wrote:Cat Merc wrote:http://i.imgur.com/OlWYujH.jpg
This is a pretty dank meme if I do say so myself. 0/10, you only post this to feel better about the fact your 390 is going to melt your case one of these days.
It won't live long enough to see the day.
I'm buying a Polaris/Pascal GPU once they're out, and giving this one to my brother.
Let him deal with the potential nuclear meltdown.
Comprehensive PC building guide
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StarVenger
Horizons' Edge
The-Office
153
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Posted - 2016.02.10 18:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
So, I was going to bookmark this page for future reference......................
AKA Meisterjager Jagermeister L1 FW
GallAss to the CORE---Founder of Serpentis UNION of the SNAKE
Horizons' Edge FTW
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.10 18:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
StarVenger wrote:So, I was going to bookmark this page for future reference......................
And then you realized life is meaningless?
Yeah, I'm with ya bro.
Easy PC building guide
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.11 20:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
mew
Easy PC building guide
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.12 13:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
ayy lmeow
Easy PC building guide
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.13 14:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
PC > PC
Easy PC building guide
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501st Synergy
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
This is amazing, you guys who do this are too smart. If I made a build on PCPartPicker, could you rip it apart for me and tell me what would work better or worse?
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.13 21:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
501st Synergy wrote:This is amazing, you guys who do this are too smart. If I made a build on PCPartPicker, could you rip it apart for me and tell me what would work better or worse?
Yup, just come over to the DUST discord and I'll be glad to help!
Easy PC building guide
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Scalesdini
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
476
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Posted - 2016.02.15 14:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Next you need to do a liquid cooling guide CatMerc.
OH WAIT YOU'RE AN AIR COOLED PLEB.  |
Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
2
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Posted - 2016.02.19 11:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
lol
Game over.
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.21 12:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Even as a joke build, I cannot condone the 6700k when the 5820k exists, often being cheaper.
Easy PC building guide
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
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19
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Posted - 2016.02.26 21:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
ayy
Easy PC building guide
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2016.03.07 13:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
lmao
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