DUST Search - Removal of Clone sales from PC.

Sbundo'D wrote:

Fiono wrote:

I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation

That's one persons opinion...

Look at the history.. before the removal of clone sales, FA controlled the majority of Molden Heath and more with alt Corps, not very long after, FA vanished from the map.. returning when the ability to farm ISK was returned.. and yet again they climbed to a majority of Molden Heath... Being space rich is serious bizniz Pirate

Many more Corps stayed active for good fights on the game they enjoy playing.

I am awaiting his reply to the post, but so far Hubert De laBatte has the most reasonable reply
"we should not make changes based on the extreme"

And he is right, the ISK mechanic is not necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of effort goes in to PC, so there is reward for the Corps that do so, but the extreme is the problem, the Corps who insist on powerful Alliances for a cushion and step over others with nothing other than a profit margin in mind, sure it's logical for "war-profiteering"

But it is bad for gameplay, it is worse for the community who try to step in to such activity and have to deal with it.

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Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:04:00 - [1] - Quote Has this been brought up at all ??? Some reasoning why I support removing ISK earning from clones. - There are not enough active fights, and Corps have no incentive to start them (partly due to the shocking state CCP are allowing the server fall in to) - Most of the PC corps still active were happy farmers when it was a chore... (now it is a simple button push and an ISK farm) - Before Christmas, I emptied Corp wallet, and as we had no interest in attacking over the holidays, farmed = 1 Billion ISK was made in less than a month... for doing NOTHING. - At Dead Man's Game, our main CP spending was moving clones for Attacks, I do not enjoy playing farmville However.. there is a lack of attack targets due to bad timers, forcing me to have no choice but to sell clones/waste CP Spineless players, such as SouthSidePhx like sending hatemails about infinte ISK and farming, but they have no clue what goes on.. unlike some other well known PC Corps, DMG do not focus on farming, we also do not pay players with the exception of PC battles that cost a lot of losses, we also try to focus our attacks above our level, fighting tougher fights and usually burning what ISK we have. PC players should gain a reward, but in the current Molden Heath, none of them deserve ISK. PC 2.0 was a great addition only years too late... My advice would be to remove ISK from clones, increase DK earning and FILL the District Market. I won't call out the farming Corps cough Tso's cough but anyone in PC knows who they are. Seeing as most players take no part in PC, opinions will vary But at least you can know DMG do not approve of the ISK farming mechanic handed by CCP, and personally I would much rather see active rewards rather than Corps being rewarded for avoiding conflict and hoarding districts. 07
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:12:00 - [2] - Quote Increased rewards for fighting, specifically tougher battles ... The old PC mechanics rewarded getting a slaying team and fighting noobs for profit PC 2.0 pays best when 2 good teams tear each other to pieces But there is no incentive to do so, when you can avoid fights, and profit more from clone sales. CCP, you may not care to interact, and the fact you release Officer trading along with PC farming shows a serious lack of consideration for the effect it will have on the casual playerbase, as most profits are then used to ruin gameplay in pubs. More reward for Corps growing a pair and fighting, less for those hiding in Alliances and hoarding districts.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:31:00 - [3] - Quote List of active PC Corps and if they support the removal of ISK generation. Dead Man's Game +1 Skill of God Prima Gallicus Abyss of Universe Project of Killers WarRavens Star of Death Cap Ac Eternal Beings b.l.u.e s.t.a.r Rebellion TLC Zen KIll society Th3.Immortals Pug-Nus Grupo Ass Chacal Heaven 84 Devils Carbon 7 Random Gunz Fatal Absolution Daemons of Razgriz nEXT sATISFACTION Galaxy T-Soldiers Butterfly Effect Drift.Crew Made In Poland Post Morteam Second-Nature Latino KIllers Corp Ever.Seruring of Heaver Power to accelerate ICE-9 Project S.A.L.U.K.I. DIOSES DEL EDEN. Zest Of Liberty Iberica Racing Team NEW H0PE Jade-Knight I'm going to stop listing there.. as it will be tough getting international replies anyway, if anyone reading this can direct leadership in PC Corps to this post to share their feedback, that would be appreciated, thank you... If you are not in the list, it's your own fault because I have not seen you in a PC battle anytime in the last 6months+
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:42:00 - [4] - Quote The glaring issues is top holding Corps gain too much.. when they have it already. Small Corps need it more, but the top groups as usual take full advantage and further crush the active PC Corps.
Milita Mable CYBER COBRAS ALT 70	Posted - 2016.01.07 15:56:00 - [5] - Quote "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" When's the first attack against CCP? You have my axe.
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 15:56:00 - [6] - Quote ISK me plz CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
EmperoR AjnaS Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 617	Posted - 2016.01.07 15:59:00 - [7] - Quote zDemoncake wrote: ISK me plz ^^^ Min loyalist Amarr ideology GÖÑAssault gk.0//mk.0//ck.0 GÖÑ Sentinel ak.0GÖÑLogistics mk.0GÖÑ
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:19:00 - [8] - Quote With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Apoleon II Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 94	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:28:00 - [9] - Quote Corp(money) :/ not guild Sorry for my bad english :$
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 216	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:43:00 - [10] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.*

Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.* Then you don't understand how war-profiteering works. My Rattati, my Ratatti, why have you abandoned me?
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 216	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:54:00 - [12] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.* Then you don't understand how war-profiteering works. I understand that in an FPS we should not be making truces and pacts to not fight so we can plant crops.. Is it that difficult for others to realize this as well ??
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:56:00 - [13] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.* If people choose not to attack, its hardly the corp choosing not to fight. if you know people are locking their districts why not get online if possible to attack them before they succeed? Removing ISK from PC is not going to fill some void that happened because a bunch of people decided to go all blue donut and abuse the system to make ISK, the ISK problem stems from pub matches and that payouts are ridiculously low. PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:28:00 - [14] - Quote Wait, is this 2016? Didn't we have clone sales, then remove them, then... add them back, and now we need to remove them again? It's the ciiiiircle of liiiiiiiife.... CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:45:00 - [15] - Quote Give us proper Raids, and I'll help you with that ISK problem. There's no sustainable incentive to fight under the current system. Peaceful farming is more profitable than war. What PC needs is mechanically opposing interests. Empire vs Rebellion. Haves vs Have Nots. Peaceful Farmers vs Evil Raiders. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:57:00 - [16] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: List of active PC Corps and if they support the removal of ISK generation. Dead Man's Game +1 (Corps should not profit from not fighting) Skill of God Prima Gallicus Abyss of Universe Project of Killers WarRavens Star of Death Cap Ac Eternal Beings b.l.u.e s.t.a.r Rebellion TLC Zen KIll society Th3.Immortals Pug-Nus Grupo Ass Chacal Heaven 84 Devils Carbon 7 Random Gunz Fatal Absolution Daemons of Razgriz nEXT sATISFACTION Galaxy T-Soldiers Butterfly Effect Drift.Crew Made In Poland Post Morteam Second-Nature Latino KIllers Corp Ever.Seruring of Heaver Power to accelerate ICE-9 Project S.A.L.U.K.I. DIOSES DEL EDEN. Zest Of Liberty Iberica Racing Team NEW H0PE Jade-Knight I'm going to stop listing there.. as it will be tough getting international replies anyway, if anyone reading this can direct leadership in PC Corps to this post to share their feedback, that would be appreciated, thank you... If you are not in the list, it's your own fault because I have not seen you in a PC battle anytime in the last 6months+ The way you worded that makes it sound as if we support turning off the faucet. We don't. The faucet has to exist because thats the only reason for anyone to fight at all. If you get rewards for fighting, but not for holding, then people will farm in other ways or simply become disinterested. We already did this thing. If you want to fix the problem you dont turn off the faucet. You make the faucet harder to maintain. This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:48:00 - [17] - Quote No I am awaiting replies then I will fill in the comments from each Corp. I will edit to make that clear.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:58:00 - [18] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell should you profit without fighting ???
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.08 00:00:00 - [19] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell would you profit without fighting ??? I never said I wanted this to be the way to make isk without fighting, it's just the only option available so people are going to abuse it. FPS or not you give people a way to make easy money and they'll take it. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.08 00:04:00 - [20] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell would you profit without fighting ??? I never said I wanted this to be the way to make isk without fighting, it's just the only option available so people are going to abuse it. FPS or not you give people a way to make easy money and they'll take it. Exactly. So remove the clone sales. Increase battle payouts. Add an average MU rank to teams... HIgher rank = higher payout for fighting them. We should make ISK, I agree.. but not by sitting about not fighting

Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.08 00:06:00 - [21] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell would you profit without fighting ??? I never said I wanted this to be the way to make isk without fighting, it's just the only option available so people are going to abuse it. FPS or not you give people a way to make easy money and they'll take it. Exactly. So remove the clone sales. Increase battle payouts. Add an average MU rank to teams... HIgher rank = higher payout for fighting them. We should make ISK, I agree.. but not by sitting about not fighting For now I would say lower it, I don't know the isk generation per clone so I cant say whether or not it's too high, but removing it completely isn't going to help. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 03:50:00 - [22] - Quote Turn off the faucet or not , u already drowned everyone in your sinkhole. I can't believe your serious. You gotta be trolling.
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 04:02:00 - [23] - Quote I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 04:16:00 - [24] - Quote Pc farming is a glitch that was abused. We are ground mercenaries, we should only get paid for completing contracts that we complete And AGREE to.**** all these blind bullshit contracts. If you won't fight in pc without huge isk generation, why do you fight in pubs in officed gear at a huge lost
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 04:23:00 - [25] - Quote You fought easy mode pubs at a lost of isk to stroke ur egoz. I hate to be a douchebag but you brought this upon yourselves. Alot of us stoped caring and only stick around to hear u complain
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2016.01.08 07:25:00 - [26] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell should you profit without fighting ??? Because its supposed to be an FPS where you can do those things. Mind blowing, I know. Welcome to New Eden. This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 223	Posted - 2016.01.08 12:26:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell should you profit without fighting ??? Because its supposed to be an FPS where you can do those things. Mind blowing, I know. Welcome to New Eden. Do you mean calling people twats?? OR The ability to farm ISK without fighting for it ?? I fully support one of these And are we supposed to allow the game to have major flaws because it was supposed to have more features, right now it lacks anything but the ability to shoot mercs in the face... Yet in PC the highest reward comes from avoiding doing that
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 223	Posted - 2016.01.08 12:35:00 - [28] - Quote Fiono wrote: I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation That's one persons opinion... Look at the history.. before the removal of clone sales, FA controlled the majority of Molden Heath and more with alt Corps, not very long after, FA vanished from the map.. returning when the ability to farm ISK was returned.. and yet again they climbed to a majority of Molden Heath... Being space rich is serious bizniz Many more Corps stayed active for good fights on the game they enjoy playing. I am awaiting his reply to the post, but so far Hubert De laBatte has the most reasonable reply "we should not make changes based on the extreme" And he is right, the ISK mechanic is not necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of effort goes in to PC, so there is reward for the Corps that do so, but the extreme is the problem, the Corps who insist on powerful Alliances for a cushion and step over others with nothing other than a profit margin in mind, sure it's logical for "war-profiteering" But it is bad for gameplay, it is worse for the community who try to step in to such activity and have to deal with it.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 225	Posted - 2016.01.08 15:13:00 - [29] - Quote @ Fiona AKA SouthSidePhx. Don't worry I used to cry and blame others before I had a clue what I was talking about too
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2016.01.08 16:15:00 - [30] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Fiono wrote: I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation That's one persons opinion... Look at the history.. before the removal of clone sales, FA controlled the majority of Molden Heath and more with alt Corps, not very long after, FA vanished from the map.. returning when the ability to farm ISK was returned.. and yet again they climbed to a majority of Molden Heath... Being space rich is serious bizniz Many more Corps stayed active for good fights on the game they enjoy playing. I am awaiting his reply to the post, but so far Hubert De laBatte has the most reasonable reply "we should not make changes based on the extreme" And he is right, the ISK mechanic is not necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of effort goes in to PC, so there is reward for the Corps that do so, but the extreme is the problem, the Corps who insist on powerful Alliances for a cushion and step over others with nothing other than a profit margin in mind, sure it's logical for "war-profiteering" But it is bad for gameplay, it is worse for the community who try to step in to such activity and have to deal with it. You have to understand that people play this game for different reasons. FA has ALWAYS been a Mercenary corp. We fight because we want ISK and the thrill of a good fight. We like our bottom line, but at the same time we want to TAKE it from someone. We're assholes like that. My favorite hook about Dust (And EVE) was how it was sold. Watch this part of the trailer. You're a mercenary. Some fight for power and prestige. Some fight for ISK. Others fight for the challenge. All of these are EQUALLY legitimate ways of playing the game. You'll find a group of people with similar mindsets and fight with them. Forcing groups to abandon their ways of playing the game for a "Community Approved" one is something that should only be done if what is happening is GAMEBREAKING. Take EVE for example. A LOT of people hate CODE and Marmite. Some call them cowards and scrubs. As much as you dislike them, they enjoy playing the game that way, and unless it is gamebreaking they have every right to enjoy their sandbox game any way they wish. Every time I hear you voice desires to make adjustments, its almost always to try and make it so people have to play Dust YOUR way. Because you think "X" tactic/method/whatever is dishonorable or whatever and that it needs to be removed for the good of the community. Well guess what, they're part of your community too. Remember that. As for PC ISK changes: Don't make PC unprofitable. Adjust the faucet, if you want, but don't remove it. Passive ISK generation in my opinion is necessary for high end groups because its a way of income that stays viable even when people are terrified to fight you. It serves as a "soft cap" for how much land you need to control. After a large number of systems, you focus more on defense, not on offense. Passive ISK gen also benefits lower end groups as well. Making PC ISK only generated through offense is going to lead to a LOT of corps being hit by groups outside of their skill area because they want easy ISK. Passive ISK generation in PC is a necessary evil that benefits both the high end players, and the lower end ones. Think very carefully before you remove it. It could lead to worse PC environment than the one that currently exists. Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.



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