DUST Search - Removal of Clone sales from PC.

Sbundo'D wrote:

Kaisar, I am not going to poke holes in your post it would take all evening.

I do have some resentment for FA, mainly because barely a month into PC, one of your officers decided to attack DMG pretty regular, were the fights competitive.. No, they were stomps.. we adjusted to it and managed some results eventually, but the levels were way to far apart, So I cannot believe you guys genuinely seek good fights...
(Also at this time, you gave districts to ITALIAN HUNTERS and Lux Aterna, to flip them a week later)

That and each time you are active you seem to be supported by the best in game, not contesting them.

Sure things may look different from opposite sides, but that is my view from here.

It may seem as expecting mercs to play my way, but then look at the fact that I have had to adapt to playing your way, so it is not so different bar the fact that it is viewed differently by each side. So I will have to agree to disagree.

I fight for and even FC with some of the new teams, trying to build their activity and watching supposed vets feel because they got in with the A-team act as though they are deserving of the rewards from doing so, destroy them rather than promote competition sucks, I got used to it, I have been stomped by and defeated every team in Molden Heath... but so long as the veteran players feel entitled to extreme advantages over smaller Corps activity will continue to bleed out.

There may not be many capable of 1337 slaying the best in game, but there are many teams left willing to fight. Having major advantages handed to the 1337 to crush the others is what I want to see changed, it doesn't need to be anything I suggest.

But something needs to be done.

Devaluing clones based on the total your Corp produces is one option, while increasing the value of clones for those that have less would be another option, you say the small Corps need the ISK, you are right, what I am saying as long as the top Corps are earning 10x that amount, the rewards for a small Corp are negligible.. and while the tops Corps keep surging ahead, the gap will never close between them, and the amount of good fights will further decline.

Different sides will view it differently, ISK in my view is there to be burnt by fighting.. I would have no issue with the current earnings if there was not always one group taking too much of an advantage (0H/RG/CAP, then AE/FA, now SOG/POK) and then Corps sit on the sideline such as EB/WR who fork out ISK to keep their position and their earnings, I would sooner lose all of my districts than make contracts for others to defend them. Look at DMG+Prima.. we are allies, that Alliance was built on fighting each other.. which in turn makes me part of the problem.. but we do not support each other in lesser battles and both go as far as to fight against each other when supporting the smaller teams, rather than allying for stomps.

Views will be different,
I just feel the rewards for taking a crap on small Corps and hiding behind better teams should be lessened.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2016.01.08 16:15:00 - [1] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Fiono wrote: I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation That's one persons opinion... Look at the history.. before the removal of clone sales, FA controlled the majority of Molden Heath and more with alt Corps, not very long after, FA vanished from the map.. returning when the ability to farm ISK was returned.. and yet again they climbed to a majority of Molden Heath... Being space rich is serious bizniz Many more Corps stayed active for good fights on the game they enjoy playing. I am awaiting his reply to the post, but so far Hubert De laBatte has the most reasonable reply "we should not make changes based on the extreme" And he is right, the ISK mechanic is not necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of effort goes in to PC, so there is reward for the Corps that do so, but the extreme is the problem, the Corps who insist on powerful Alliances for a cushion and step over others with nothing other than a profit margin in mind, sure it's logical for "war-profiteering" But it is bad for gameplay, it is worse for the community who try to step in to such activity and have to deal with it. You have to understand that people play this game for different reasons. FA has ALWAYS been a Mercenary corp. We fight because we want ISK and the thrill of a good fight. We like our bottom line, but at the same time we want to TAKE it from someone. We're assholes like that. My favorite hook about Dust (And EVE) was how it was sold. Watch this part of the trailer. You're a mercenary. Some fight for power and prestige. Some fight for ISK. Others fight for the challenge. All of these are EQUALLY legitimate ways of playing the game. You'll find a group of people with similar mindsets and fight with them. Forcing groups to abandon their ways of playing the game for a "Community Approved" one is something that should only be done if what is happening is GAMEBREAKING. Take EVE for example. A LOT of people hate CODE and Marmite. Some call them cowards and scrubs. As much as you dislike them, they enjoy playing the game that way, and unless it is gamebreaking they have every right to enjoy their sandbox game any way they wish. Every time I hear you voice desires to make adjustments, its almost always to try and make it so people have to play Dust YOUR way. Because you think "X" tactic/method/whatever is dishonorable or whatever and that it needs to be removed for the good of the community. Well guess what, they're part of your community too. Remember that. As for PC ISK changes: Don't make PC unprofitable. Adjust the faucet, if you want, but don't remove it. Passive ISK generation in my opinion is necessary for high end groups because its a way of income that stays viable even when people are terrified to fight you. It serves as a "soft cap" for how much land you need to control. After a large number of systems, you focus more on defense, not on offense. Passive ISK gen also benefits lower end groups as well. Making PC ISK only generated through offense is going to lead to a LOT of corps being hit by groups outside of their skill area because they want easy ISK. Passive ISK generation in PC is a necessary evil that benefits both the high end players, and the lower end ones. Think very carefully before you remove it. It could lead to worse PC environment than the one that currently exists. Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2016.01.08 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: Kaisar, I am not going to poke holes in your post it would take all evening. I do have some resentment for FA, mainly because barely a month into PC, one of your officers decided to attack DMG pretty regular, were the fights competitive.. No, they were stomps.. we adjusted to it and managed some results eventually, but the levels were way to far apart, So I cannot believe you guys genuinely seek good fights... (Also at this time, you gave districts to ITALIAN HUNTERS and Lux Aterna, to flip them a week later) That and each time you are active you seem to be supported by the best in game, not contesting them. Sure things may look different from opposite sides, but that is my view from here. It may seem as expecting mercs to play my way, but then look at the fact that I have had to adapt to playing your way, so it is not so different bar the fact that it is viewed differently by each side. So I will have to agree to disagree. I fight for and even FC with some of the new teams, trying to build their activity and watching supposed vets feel because they got in with the A-team act as though they are deserving of the rewards from doing so, destroy them rather than promote competition sucks, I got used to it, I have been stomped by and defeated every team in Molden Heath... but so long as the veteran players feel entitled to extreme advantages over smaller Corps activity will continue to bleed out. There may not be many capable of 1337 slaying the best in game, but there are many teams left willing to fight. Having major advantages handed to the 1337 to crush the others is what I want to see changed, it doesn't need to be anything I suggest. But something needs to be done. Devaluing clones based on the total your Corp produces is one option, while increasing the value of clones for those that have less would be another option, you say the small Corps need the ISK, you are right, what I am saying as long as the top Corps are earning 10x that amount, the rewards for a small Corp are negligible.. and while the tops Corps keep surging ahead, the gap will never close between them, and the amount of good fights will further decline. Different sides will view it differently, ISK in my view is there to be burnt by fighting.. I would have no issue with the current earnings if there was not always one group taking too much of an advantage (0H/RG/CAP, then AE/FA, now SOG/POK) and then Corps sit on the sideline such as EB/WR who fork out ISK to keep their position and their earnings, I would sooner lose all of my districts than make contracts for others to defend them. Look at DMG+Prima.. we are allies, that Alliance was built on fighting each other.. which in turn makes me part of the problem.. but we do not support each other in lesser battles and both go as far as to fight against each other when supporting the smaller teams, rather than allying for stomps. Views will be different, I just feel the rewards for taking a crap on small Corps and hiding behind better teams should be lessened. I think you're misunderstanding. Be aware that I'm not arguing about ISK in PC for most of that argument. I'm talking about how you keep trying to raise your ideals on a silver pedestal and talk about how evil the other corps are. Listen, PC needs all sorts of people to grow and survive. What you're doing with newer corps in admirable. However, It also needs those guys who are willing to hit anyone and anything to make a profit. FA likes good fights when we can get them. I know for a fact we had several lost battles that we enjoyed because of the struggle. Stomping lower skill level teams is fun from time to time because we're all pretty egotistical due to being in FA, but no way in hell are you going to get me to do that 24/7. I'd rather play pubs. However there were multiple times in our existence where there simply WASN'T a good fight to be had. So we hit whatever we could. Simply because we were bored or because we needed to do something to keep people around. If you don't send or get fights PEOPLE LEAVE. We did what we could to keep them. Eventually they leave because they aren't getting the fights they want, content happens, and all is well again. That's the beauty of a sandbox. 9 times out of 10, it will right itself given enough time. Bottom line is, PC takes all kinds to make work. It takes people like you reaching down to help the new guys. It also takes the large alliances and smaller corps as well. It takes those Mexican coalitions with their AV spam, the Japanese with their horrible timers, Russians who send hatemail in moon runes and every saint AND jerkhole under the sun. THIS is our PC community. A large group of crazy people fighting over land for various reasons. None of them are fighting for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't have it any other way. Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.