This.

The motivations for religious extremism are varied and troubling. Within a week we had the both the "Christian" and "Islamic" ones. I find it curious that whitey gets a pass on his terrorism but brown people don't, although given that it is America we are talking about, I am certainly not surprised by it.

Might as well just keep these sympathy and condolences comments quick to hand with the disturbing regularity of these events.

Guys. People have died. Please take your debate elsewhere, as this is not the place for it. This thread is for mourning, remembrance, and condolences. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to send in-game messages or start a chat channel, or maybe make a thread in the Locker Room.

This is EXACTLY the place for it.

These people didn't die in a freak occurance, or in a vacuum. Their deaths were contributed to at least in part by the easy access to firearms.

You properly memorialize them by making an effort to not make them just another stone in the ocean of gun violence that goes on in the states.

Just throwing an o7 and accepting the status quo is an insult to those who died.

We may not have much, but this is our version of a funeral. Please show respect and debate elsewhere.

Making a stupid mistake when carrying a gun can lead to some pretty serious consequences.

Obligated to carry? Your high.

As to the road rage, it happens. So do people drinking while packing. How many drinks do you trust to shoot straight or make rational decisions?

What's funny is that you assent to some form of control when you say crazy people shouldn't have guns, but right now you don't have to do a background check to get a gun,just make a private purchase.

Your country has two internal crises around guns. The first is the constant tragedy of woundings and deaths due to rampant guns, the second is the inability of your government to respond to it.

It was ISIS, the world needs to be quicker in their extermination of ISIS or we will all end up like this.

I admire your zeal but let's look at this logically.I do agree ISIS is a problem however there a lot of things to consider:

First off, sleeper agents. We do not know who they are, where they are or when they still strike. This is actually the core aspect of terrorism, not the bombs or the shooting but the fact that we do not know when/if/where it will happen. This uncertainty makes us fearful and does the job of terrorism for the terroist. Then when these sleeper agents do act, it just reinforces the fear. The scary truth is, it's not just people of Arbian or Middle Eastern descent doing the attacks. There are white, black, asian and polyneisan members of ISIS.

Secondly, we need to address the region ISIS originated from: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. All these places have or had at one point a ruthless controlling dictator which kept most extremist under control, when western society moved in and uplifted ****** and Gaddafi, it gave these extremist more pull, similar to how ****** rose to power after WW1 and the decline of the Duestchemark. So more involment in the Middle East needs to be taken carefully or we may create something even worse than what is there already.

Thirdly, their recruitment campaign. Has anyone seen it? It is targeted to young men who wish to live a "Rambo" life style. Now most people would just laugh this off, but an impressionable 13 year old that has been playing CoD 24/7 would want that kind of life. Hell at one point the US Army use dto use Video Games as a recruitment tool and when I served between 2009-2011, most of the young guys I served with realized that it wasn't like CoD.

Finally, I know you didn't say this but a lot of people need to undersrand this: Not all Muslims are extremist or terroists. Hell, these extremist don't even follow the true teachings of Muhammad or the Qu'ran. It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war. So don't blame the Muslims, blame the idiots who think they are Muslims but are just extremist.

So while I do agree something needs to be done to stop them, however we need to be cautious about this. Not to mention the World itself is on the tipping egde of a knife, one mistake but any world leader and we have another World War on our hands.

Edit: The two censored names are the old dictator of Iraq and the fuhere of Germany from 1930s onwards. Their names are censored on these forums.

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html


Read this and then read " It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war." again without laughing.

That moment when I have actually fully studied the Qu'ran including the context it was written in. Most people don't know this anout me, but I love studying religious text. Also the defense he is using to prove that Islam promotes killing of "infidels" is being pulled from certain verses and is taken out of complete context. Try actually studying theology sometime, it opens your eyes.

I know some things can be taken out of context to seem bad, I just pulled up a quick list of references. Literally first search result on google.


Well go ahead, educate me on these, they hardly seem to promote peace in any context you wish them in;

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

How much studying in theology do I need to make these look happy and appealing? The quote 9:37 I give you, could be used out of context, but the other two seem pretty stand alone and straight forward regardless of their context.

You are quoting verses from different books without naming the books. So you are really trying to set me up to fail here. But here it is:

Given the time it was written was round the time where tensions between Jews and Christians and other Arabic nations (was this was written during he time when Islam had yet to be established and was just Muhammrd teaching his people).

Now Jews and the Arabic nations had been warring for hundreds if not thousands of years before even Christianity was established. So it stands to reason that the Arabic hatred of that time would fall onto Christians though technically they (Muslims) do recognize Jesus.

That first quote "do not takes friends of Christians and Jews as they are friends of each other." Is very obscure. Yes it does sound like like hate mongering but there is nothing there about killing. In fact it was actually more about segregation than killing. That ending "God does mot guide an unjust people," is more of a reason to use to segregate themselves from Jews and Christians. This would of actually been a good thing as I have stated before, there has been a thousand year hatred between them previously.

9:73 is someone begging the prophet to go to war. Again without the rest of the book and chapter, it is unclear what the response of Muhammad was. Also seeing as Muhammad was the "last true prophet" there is only one person that this could be addressed to.

48:29 is more of an observation during the wars between the Muslims and the Jews and Christians. Same observations are made about the Jews in the Torah and old testament of the bible. This is, again, completely taken out of context.

Well I'm not saying that it outright promotes terrorism but you do have to admit, calling it a peaceful religion doesn't exactly go along with the ideas of segregation. It seems to sow discord against people outside of the religion in almost all these instances and quotes, wouldn't you say?

How then can it be peaceful it it's placing the seeds for mistrust and looking down upon others? It does have a general "Convert or kill" vibe very easily if you read it out of context as well, which is where I do think muslim terrorism stems from.

I mean, look at the crusades, certainly religion can be used for great evil when misguided and misunderstood. But it seems as though things here can be misunderstood a whole lot easier, which is dangerous.

If someone wants to kill someone with a gun, it can be obtained even easier illegally than legally. If they can't get a gun, they will use a knife, or some other form of weapon to kill with. People will still kill other people, look at countries with heavy gun control. You see less guns, but still the same amount of killings.

I admire your zeal but let's look at this logically.I do agree ISIS is a problem however there a lot of things to consider:

First off, sleeper agents. We do not know who they are, where they are or when they still strike. This is actually the core aspect of terrorism, not the bombs or the shooting but the fact that we do not know when/if/where it will happen. This uncertainty makes us fearful and does the job of terrorism for the terroist. Then when these sleeper agents do act, it just reinforces the fear. The scary truth is, it's not just people of Arbian or Middle Eastern descent doing the attacks. There are white, black, asian and polyneisan members of ISIS.

Secondly, we need to address the region ISIS originated from: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. All these places have or had at one point a ruthless controlling dictator which kept most extremist under control, when western society moved in and uplifted ****** and Gaddafi, it gave these extremist more pull, similar to how ****** rose to power after WW1 and the decline of the Duestchemark. So more involment in the Middle East needs to be taken carefully or we may create something even worse than what is there already.

Thirdly, their recruitment campaign. Has anyone seen it? It is targeted to young men who wish to live a "Rambo" life style. Now most people would just laugh this off, but an impressionable 13 year old that has been playing CoD 24/7 would want that kind of life. Hell at one point the US Army use dto use Video Games as a recruitment tool and when I served between 2009-2011, most of the young guys I served with realized that it wasn't like CoD.

Finally, I know you didn't say this but a lot of people need to undersrand this: Not all Muslims are extremist or terroists. Hell, these extremist don't even follow the true teachings of Muhammad or the Qu'ran. It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war. So don't blame the Muslims, blame the idiots who think they are Muslims but are just extremist.

So while I do agree something needs to be done to stop them, however we need to be cautious about this. Not to mention the World itself is on the tipping egde of a knife, one mistake but any world leader and we have another World War on our hands.

Edit: The two censored names are the old dictator of Iraq and the fuhere of Germany from 1930s onwards. Their names are censored on these forums.

Like I said, I hope your never in a situation where there is a bad man holding a big gun and you can't do anything about it because guns are bad.

Making a mistake with a gun isn't a stupid one, it's a serious one. A stupid mistake doesn't cost someone a life, you shouldn't take a gun out of it's holster for anything other than defence.

Yes, bad people have easy access to guns, so I want good guys to have access to them too.

I don't know where you live, but killing with things are rampant and you government is unable to respond to it. That's like saying suicides would stop if people didn't have guns to shoot themselves with. People wanting to commit an act to kill will use the best means at their disposal. A knife to your kidney will kill just as easy, if not more so, than a gunshot there.

I dare you to tell me that it would have been a bad things for a good man to have been there in a crowd with a gun on him and shot the insane ones before they could have killed someone. Go ahead, say it.

I personally think everyone should have a gun. At all times.

If someone wants to kill someone with a gun, it can be obtained even easier illegally than legally. If they can't get a gun, they will use a knife, or some other form of weapon to kill with. People will still kill other people, look at countries with heavy gun control. You see less guns, but still the same amount of killings.

If everyone has a sufficient means to defend themselves then it levels the playing field. If everyone could shoot back, people would be far less likely to rob, steal, or shoot at people to start with since they would likely be shot back by far more people.

If a gunman walks into a room and starts shooting at 10 people, if all of those 10 people can shoot back, casualties will be minimal. In the case of 0 being armed, he can literally take his time shooting them with no one to contest him.

I hope if you're ever in a situation where someone is trying to kill you, that someone around you has enough sense to carry a weapon to shoot back and save your life. I hope your never in the position to just sit in fear and hope they don't shoot you too.

I have no fear, I embrace my right to carry a weapon, and I'll have it ready if I need to defend myself or others should the need arise.

Baffling indeed.

Holy crap you're alive! Where you been? Haven't seen you online in some time.