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Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
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Posted - 2015.12.07 03:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:It was ISIS, the world needs to be quicker in their extermination of ISIS or we will all end up like this.
I admire your zeal but let's look at this logically.I do agree ISIS is a problem however there a lot of things to consider:
First off, sleeper agents. We do not know who they are, where they are or when they still strike. This is actually the core aspect of terrorism, not the bombs or the shooting but the fact that we do not know when/if/where it will happen. This uncertainty makes us fearful and does the job of terrorism for the terroist. Then when these sleeper agents do act, it just reinforces the fear. The scary truth is, it's not just people of Arbian or Middle Eastern descent doing the attacks. There are white, black, asian and polyneisan members of ISIS.
Secondly, we need to address the region ISIS originated from: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. All these places have or had at one point a ruthless controlling dictator which kept most extremist under control, when western society moved in and uplifted ****** and Gaddafi, it gave these extremist more pull, similar to how ****** rose to power after WW1 and the decline of the Duestchemark. So more involment in the Middle East needs to be taken carefully or we may create something even worse than what is there already.
Thirdly, their recruitment campaign. Has anyone seen it? It is targeted to young men who wish to live a "Rambo" life style. Now most people would just laugh this off, but an impressionable 13 year old that has been playing CoD 24/7 would want that kind of life. Hell at one point the US Army use dto use Video Games as a recruitment tool and when I served between 2009-2011, most of the young guys I served with realized that it wasn't like CoD.
Finally, I know you didn't say this but a lot of people need to undersrand this: Not all Muslims are extremist or terroists. Hell, these extremist don't even follow the true teachings of Muhammad or the Qu'ran. It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war. So don't blame the Muslims, blame the idiots who think they are Muslims but are just extremist.
Director of T-W-L
Lord of Scrubs
Praise the Sun!
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Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 04:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:It was ISIS, the world needs to be quicker in their extermination of ISIS or we will all end up like this. I admire your zeal but let's look at this logically.I do agree ISIS is a problem however there a lot of things to consider: First off, sleeper agents. We do not know who they are, where they are or when they still strike. This is actually the core aspect of terrorism, not the bombs or the shooting but the fact that we do not know when/if/where it will happen. This uncertainty makes us fearful and does the job of terrorism for the terroist. Then when these sleeper agents do act, it just reinforces the fear. The scary truth is, it's not just people of Arbian or Middle Eastern descent doing the attacks. There are white, black, asian and polyneisan members of ISIS. Secondly, we need to address the region ISIS originated from: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. All these places have or had at one point a ruthless controlling dictator which kept most extremist under control, when western society moved in and uplifted ****** and Gaddafi, it gave these extremist more pull, similar to how ****** rose to power after WW1 and the decline of the Duestchemark. So more involment in the Middle East needs to be taken carefully or we may create something even worse than what is there already. Thirdly, their recruitment campaign. Has anyone seen it? It is targeted to young men who wish to live a "Rambo" life style. Now most people would just laugh this off, but an impressionable 13 year old that has been playing CoD 24/7 would want that kind of life. Hell at one point the US Army use dto use Video Games as a recruitment tool and when I served between 2009-2011, most of the young guys I served with realized that it wasn't like CoD. Finally, I know you didn't say this but a lot of people need to undersrand this: Not all Muslims are extremist or terroists. Hell, these extremist don't even follow the true teachings of Muhammad or the Qu'ran. It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war. So don't blame the Muslims, blame the idiots who think they are Muslims but are just extremist. So while I do agree something needs to be done to stop them, however we need to be cautious about this. Not to mention the World itself is on the tipping egde of a knife, one mistake but any world leader and we have another World War on our hands. Edit: The two censored names are the old dictator of Iraq and the fuhere of Germany from 1930s onwards. Their names are censored on these forums. http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html Read this and then read " It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war." again without laughing.
That moment when I have actually fully studied the Qu'ran including the context it was written in. Most people don't know this anout me, but I love studying religious text. Also the defense he is using to prove that Islam promotes killing of "infidels" is being pulled from certain verses and is taken out of complete context. Try actually studying theology sometime, it opens your eyes.
Director of T-W-L
Lord of Scrubs
Praise the Sun!
|
Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 04:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:
That moment when I have actually fully studied the Qu'ran including the context it was written in. Most people don't know this anout me, but I love studying religious text. Also the defense he is using to prove that Islam promotes killing of "infidels" is being pulled from certain verses and is taken out of complete context. Try actually studying theology sometime, it opens your eyes.
I know some things can be taken out of context to seem bad, I just pulled up a quick list of references. Literally first search result on google. Well go ahead, educate me on these, they hardly seem to promote peace in any context you wish them in; O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54 O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73 Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29 How much studying in theology do I need to make these look happy and appealing? The quote 9:37 I give you, could be used out of context, but the other two seem pretty stand alone and straight forward regardless of their context.
You are quoting verses from different books without naming the books. So you are really trying to set me up to fail here. But here it is:
Given the time it was written was round the time where tensions between Jews and Christians and other Arabic nations (was this was written during he time when Islam had yet to be established and was just Muhammrd teaching his people).
Now Jews and the Arabic nations had been warring for hundreds if not thousands of years before even Christianity was established. So it stands to reason that the Arabic hatred of that time would fall onto Christians though technically they (Muslims) do recognize Jesus.
That first quote "do not takes friends of Christians and Jews as they are friends of each other." Is very obscure. Yes it does sound like like hate mongering but there is nothing there about killing. In fact it was actually more about segregation than killing. That ending "God does mot guide an unjust people," is more of a reason to use to segregate themselves from Jews and Christians. This would of actually been a good thing as I have stated before, there has been a thousand year hatred between them previously.
9:73 is someone begging the prophet to go to war. Again without the rest of the book and chapter, it is unclear what the response of Muhammad was. Also seeing as Muhammad was the "last true prophet" there is only one person that this could be addressed to.
48:29 is more of an observation during the wars between the Muslims and the Jews and Christians. Same observations are made about the Jews in the Torah and old testament of the bible. This is, again, completely taken out of context.
Director of T-W-L
Lord of Scrubs
Praise the Sun!
|
Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 06:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:
That moment when I have actually fully studied the Qu'ran including the context it was written in. Most people don't know this anout me, but I love studying religious text. Also the defense he is using to prove that Islam promotes killing of "infidels" is being pulled from certain verses and is taken out of complete context. Try actually studying theology sometime, it opens your eyes.
I know some things can be taken out of context to seem bad, I just pulled up a quick list of references. Literally first search result on google. Well go ahead, educate me on these, they hardly seem to promote peace in any context you wish them in; O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54 O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73 Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29 How much studying in theology do I need to make these look happy and appealing? The quote 9:37 I give you, could be used out of context, but the other two seem pretty stand alone and straight forward regardless of their context. You are quoting verses from different books without naming the books. So you are really trying to set me up to fail here. But here it is: Given the time it was written was round the time where tensions between Jews and Christians and other Arabic nations (was this was written during he time when Islam had yet to be established and was just Muhammrd teaching his people). Now Jews and the Arabic nations had been warring for hundreds if not thousands of years before even Christianity was established. So it stands to reason that the Arabic hatred of that time would fall onto Christians though technically they (Muslims) do recognize Jesus. That first quote "do not takes friends of Christians and Jews as they are friends of each other." Is very obscure. Yes it does sound like like hate mongering but there is nothing there about killing. In fact it was actually more about segregation than killing. That ending "God does mot guide an unjust people," is more of a reason to use to segregate themselves from Jews and Christians. This would of actually been a good thing as I have stated before, there has been a thousand year hatred between them previously. 9:73 is someone begging the prophet to go to war. Again without the rest of the book and chapter, it is unclear what the response of Muhammad was. Also seeing as Muhammad was the "last true prophet" there is only one person that this could be addressed to. 48:29 is more of an observation during the wars between the Muslims and the Jews and Christians. Same observations are made about the Jews in the Torah and old testament of the bible. This is, again, completely taken out of context. Well I'm not saying that it outright promotes terrorism but you do have to admit, calling it a peaceful religion doesn't exactly go along with the ideas of segregation. It seems to sow discord against people outside of the religion in almost all these instances and quotes, wouldn't you say? How then can it be peaceful it it's placing the seeds for mistrust and looking down upon others? It does have a general "Convert or kill" vibe very easily if you read it out of context as well, which is where I do think muslim terrorism stems from. I mean, look at the crusades, certainly religion can be used for great evil when misguided and misunderstood. But it seems as though things here can be misunderstood a whole lot easier, which is dangerous.
Segregation in itself is not evil nor does it sow seeds of discord and hate, the world and all its people were segregated at one point due to the oceans and vast deserts. All it takes is one incident to start years of hatred as what we have in the Middle East between the Jews and the Muslims. So in this context, segregation is niether here not there as the Muslim distrust for the Jews was established hundreds of years before Muhammad and Jesus.
What Muhammad understood was that if his people continued to be around Jews and Christians, the hatred will deepend, especially during pilgrimages to Damascus and Jerusalem, both considered holy citys by the three Abrahamic Religions. Segregation would not of removed the hatred and distrust, but it was the only option he had readily avalible.
I know with Americans, when speaking of segregation, the civil right movement of the 50s and 60s come to mind, however not all segregation is like that. Did he once say they were lower class citizens? No he just said God doesn't guide them, which is more of an insult than saying they are lower class.
Director of T-W-L
Lord of Scrubs
Praise the Sun!
|
Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:It was ISIS, the world needs to be quicker in their extermination of ISIS or we will all end up like this. I admire your zeal but let's look at this logically.I do agree ISIS is a problem however there a lot of things to consider: First off, sleeper agents. We do not know who they are, where they are or when they still strike. This is actually the core aspect of terrorism, not the bombs or the shooting but the fact that we do not know when/if/where it will happen. This uncertainty makes us fearful and does the job of terrorism for the terroist. Then when these sleeper agents do act, it just reinforces the fear. The scary truth is, it's not just people of Arbian or Middle Eastern descent doing the attacks. There are white, black, asian and polyneisan members of ISIS. Secondly, we need to address the region ISIS originated from: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. All these places have or had at one point a ruthless controlling dictator which kept most extremist under control, when western society moved in and uplifted ****** and Gaddafi, it gave these extremist more pull, similar to how ****** rose to power after WW1 and the decline of the Duestchemark. So more involment in the Middle East needs to be taken carefully or we may create something even worse than what is there already. Thirdly, their recruitment campaign. Has anyone seen it? It is targeted to young men who wish to live a "Rambo" life style. Now most people would just laugh this off, but an impressionable 13 year old that has been playing CoD 24/7 would want that kind of life. Hell at one point the US Army use dto use Video Games as a recruitment tool and when I served between 2009-2011, most of the young guys I served with realized that it wasn't like CoD. Finally, I know you didn't say this but a lot of people need to undersrand this: Not all Muslims are extremist or terroists. Hell, these extremist don't even follow the true teachings of Muhammad or the Qu'ran. It is actually a peaceful religion with warnings against war. So don't blame the Muslims, blame the idiots who think they are Muslims but are just extremist. So while I do agree something needs to be done to stop them, however we need to be cautious about this. Not to mention the World itself is on the tipping egde of a knife, one mistake but any world leader and we have another World War on our hands. Edit: The two censored names are the old dictator of Iraq and the fuhere of Germany from 1930s onwards. Their names are censored on these forums. Holy crap you're alive! Where you been? Haven't seen you online in some time.
I've been wandering the Commonwealth with Dogmeat, found some Aliens, killed a few synths, possibly shot down a vertibird with a Fat Man...
Director of T-W-L
Lord of Scrubs
Praise the Sun!
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