How much is your fully pro fit?

I've gone isk negative in the last 2 weeks.

Been running full pro (214k) and I've had the misfortune to lose my predator instinct. Been dying stupid deaths lately. Decided to run only basic. Hopefully, I'll improve.

the only difference is damage output, all the other stats are the same. If your warbarge is 4-5% damage boost, and if you have atleast proficiency 3-4 on rail rifles, then your standard rail rifle is doing more damage than a non-warbarge non-proficiency advanced rail rifle would do.

Of course if you switch to an advanced you will be doing just that much more damage, and then again for prototype as well. If you want to save money, stick with the standard free rail rifle, I think its still good enough to use, and if you wanted to kit out anything else on the suit, stick with upgrading the modules.

How much is your fully pro fit?

I've gone isk negative in the last 2 weeks.

Been running full pro (214k) and I've had the misfortune to lose my predator instinct. Been dying stupid deaths lately. Decided to run only basic. Hopefully, I'll improve.

You're that beta vet that didn't actually play during beta, are you not? If it helps I run my CalAss Apex with two complex damage mods with the basic rr... Or if I feel like not using basic I just have a copy with a proto Rr/ARR and use that...

You're that beta vet that didn't actually play during beta, are you not? If it helps I run my CalAss Apex with two complex damage mods with the basic rr... Or if I feel like not using basic I just have a copy with a proto Rr/ARR and use that...

i believe a balanced approach is best

i never run proto weapons on anything except a proto suit..doing so throws your suit into what i like to call glass cannon mode

And yes, not playing during the Beta is starting to really feel like the worst decision I could have made. Think how advanced I'd be now if I'd kept going! The reasons I stopped were varied, but primarily to do with the fact that I couldn't seem to figure out how to get into matches. I guess the system is simply that different from EvE and I didn't have the time to figure it out, or at least I didn't think I did.

Now, of course, it seems so simple, I'm kicking myself for not continuing to play... :(

Dying stupid deaths. Yeah, that sounds like me most of the time. :) I know how to aim, I can hit the target most of the time but they seem to be able to cut me up before I can cut them up. What's been happening more often lately is that one or other of us will die and the other will have armour hanging by a thread. I know just a little more DPS would fix that, but the expense of a Kaala or Ishukone is prohibitive if I keep dying like I do.

My fully pro fits are Caldari State fitted, run to around 40K plus about 600LP with State Peacekeepers. I don't really know what that translates to in ISK, but I think it's a lot. I only make about 2000LP on a winning match. Also, with most of my fitting skills down around lvl 3, I can't actually fit full pro fits. Only my weapons are at lvl 5, and proficiency is only about lvl 2. I'm working on that... :)

Right now I'm just running APEX fits with minimal modification, but I might try the pro fits for a bit on an experiment.

everyone who proto spams relentlessly drops in skill...when you kick the **** out of scrubs who dont stand a chance 80% of the time and give yourself no real challenge what do you expect go run lower gear and wipe the rust off lightening

What I've noticed mostly lately is I can't find "lone" targets. All in starting to see know it's a heavy with rep and an assault near them. Which is bad for m cuz all my suits are Gallente (cqc) and it's Obviously impossible to win a 3-1.

TLDR- I'm being ganged up on.

Have STD,ADV, and PRO of your favorite fits. STD not so much as you can run a MLT fit and get the same results s a standard.

PRO fits don't ever see the light of day from me unless I'm really wanting you dead. Or I see a big name Corp Merc that thinks it will be safe to whip out his PRO fit in a pub match.

i believe a balanced approach is best

i never run proto weapons on anything except a proto suit..doing so throws your suit into what i like to call glass cannon mode

Figured as much... We should squad up sometime... For the meantime get your shield/armor skills to five. Helps alot...

Oo I remember those days..ahh broken damage mods, good times

What I've noticed mostly lately is I can't find "lone" targets. All in starting to see know it's a heavy with rep and an assault near them. Which is bad for m cuz all my suits are Gallente (cqc) and it's Obviously impossible to win a 3-1.

TLDR- I'm being ganged up on.

One does not run proto weapons with apex suits in the first place. That's being scrubby,secondly get a combo of hp tank and make do with a advanced weapon. I just used milita weapon bpos to shave a lot of isk off of my total price.

If you have the krin's damage mod, you could always replace the shield energizer for more dps. Doesnt lower your direct tank in a fight, only slows your complete shield recovery by a few seconds.

Yeah.... I've seen that. The respec spoiled me.

So do deleted all my pro/off fits!

No more pro stomping from me for a while. This is the second time I do this.

Have STD,ADV, and PRO of your favorite fits. STD not so much as you can run a MLT fit and get the same results s a standard.

PRO fits don't ever see the light of day from me unless I'm really wanting you dead. Or I see a big name Corp Merc that thinks it will be safe to whip out his PRO fit in a pub match.

no one fights one v one now you get jumped by 3 dudes every time

Interesting. So what's the point of STD? I can see the point of ADV and PRO, but STD seems somewhat pointless other than as a first step out of MLT suits.

I no longer run STD suits, only APEX (Caldari State) or MLT for BPOs and ADV otherwise. I have State Assault and State Scout PRO suits but I haven't used them because losing them seems just too expensive and easy to do. :)

not really std racial variants get ur full proto skills especially logis they are definitively better than mlt

I only run an unedited APEX Samurai Commando in pubs. I just swap the Sniper for a MLT Rail rifle BPO and the nanohive for some R-9 links. Go positive 99.5% of the time K/D wise and 100% positive ISK wise.

Just spend your isks, they are here for that !

How much ISK do you have exactly? It would be a good idea to start a saving method like Park does. He only keeps 5.1 mil on Park and sends all the other isk to an alt. I have a Corp on one of my alts and use that as a Savings account... Then of course as an actual Corp... Also if you are in any channels, which ones? I would like to squad sometime...

Ah, I've wondered about logis. I've heard this advice before. But running a suit with all that equipment when I'm just gonna die seems wasteful. I know that's negative thinking, and there's probably a different approach when running logis - standing back and not joining in the fight so much, probably. I haven't learnt that level of restraint yet... ;)

no one fights one v one now you get jumped by 3 dudes every time

One thing you can always do, is create multiple fittings using your apex suit. I usually keep one fitting from my LP Apex suit completely free, either by using BPO's I have or just leaving it unmodified, and then you can make different fittings with different levels of modules and weapons you add to the suit, so you can always switch between different suits depending on how much more you're wanting to 'spend' during any given match you're in.

sever logi bpo with a core repper tool can easily be built to an under 20k fit and u can make 500k per match on it

sever logi bpo
bpo mlt shotty
bpo dirty needle
compact nano
std link
core repper

a few basic shields a few kinkats and ur good

This makes perfect sense. Back then (about a month and beyond) it was common for me to roam around alone and get a good 40+ kills. Now every group I see, all huddled together. I also have a feeling I know why this is happening.

Yes, I've tried this. I usually put the Kaalakiota skin on the unedited BPO, for visual impact - I'm going to lose it anyway, so I might as well scare the bejebus out of them. :)

I like the idea of having various edited versions with different levels of weapons and modules. I'm finding it hard to use up all the PG/CPU without fitting ADV weapons, so maybe that can be another fit. That would make three:
1. Unedited BPO - say State Rasetsu with a State Rail Rifle and basic mods all part of the BPO,
2. Beefed up tank - State Rasetsu with better shields, damage mods, etc, but with the same weapons,
3. Fully edited - State Rasetsu in name only - everything improved including ADV weapons.

I've tried this myself, but I've noticed I tend to leave the BPOs just sit there. Again, the idea or not maxing out the PG/CPU bothers me. I think that's an EvE thing - we never fly ships that we haven't maxed out all the resources on. Of course I could just run MLT fits, they're easy to max out with just one or two MLT BPO modules. I've done that too, but I die too much to benefit in any way from them.

I have a State Samurai Commando (APEX) suit. But I've never run it unedited. Seems like a waste of all that spare PG/CPU to not fill it up with at least some ADV shield and damage mods. Isn't that the point of being able to edit them?

What about Hawk Scout and Rasetsu Assault? I run heavily edited versions of them, but what you seem to be saying is that pubs aren't worth spending ISK on. Running the unedited versions is the sort of thing I imagine people who buy APEX suits with AUR do before they have any real skills. Good for learning on but not good for really advancing. The Hawk Scout, particularly, is just asking to be scanned and blown away in an instant without any edits.

Do tell! You have a theory? Anyone else know for sure what's behind this? Certainly, from a solo perspective, I would just love to be in a squad when I come up against one of these little groups. Is it survival tactics or something else?

Guns and suits are the most expensive items in the game. If you run an ADV suit, and ADV guns even if everything else on your suit is proto you should be able to easily make ISK.

Thanks for that. Guess my next State APEX BPO will be the Kampo.... :) I've read, though that the Caldari logis aren't that good....

1. people have seen how effective squads are and are actually squading

2. in order to reduce stomps, people have realized its best to stay together

3. survival, idk who else has noticed, but ive seen very common now a heavy with logi and assault just roaming. you try to attack but they pin you down. its very effective.

thats all i got.... except how about matchmaking? ive also noticed a couple matches recently when almost the whole team goes 800wp+

could scotty start putting squads vs squads now? am i one of the poor mercs used as fillers for matches???

idk. i just know that something isnt right.

they are great for grenade md spam
got one to proto just for that

but for mass money making u want minmatar

my main assault is 214k

gko
duvole ar
creodron ip
thukker grenade
ishukone guaged nanohive
1 complex light damge
1 complex sidearm damage\
1 adv pg upgrade
1 pro kincat
2 pro ferroscale
2 pro reps

everyone who proto spams relentlessly drops in skill...when you kick the **** out of scrubs who dont stand a chance 80% of the time and give yourself no real challenge what do you expect go run lower gear and wipe the rust off lightening

The apexes are more powerful if you max out your cores and the suit itself along with its weapons... Also shield are pretty much useless in dust 514... They get destroyed within 2 seconds...

Ah, I've wondered about logis. I've heard this advice before. But running a suit with all that equipment when I'm just gonna die seems wasteful. I know that's negative thinking, and there's probably a different approach when running logis - standing back and not joining in the fight so much, probably. I haven't learnt that level of restraint yet... ;)

This is actually a fairly accurate statement. Generally I run nothing but standard sh*tfits, with the occasional ADV splurge.

When I actually PRO/officer out, I usually enjoy an UNHOLY level of advantage over most players including thr protos.

My rare-ass berserker moments where I butcher squads usually came from swapping to Proto after having been fighting running nothing but STD crap. It's rather telling about whether you're actually a scrub or if you're just a masochist who loves hardmode when you swap to the weapons grade being used by all of your enemies and you mop the floor with their asses when before you were just doing "ok."

Update.

I've been running BPOs in pubs. I'm pretty sure I don't like it. To my mind, as stated elsewhere the suit and the weapons are the most expensive parts of a fit, so using a BPO without editing out the weapons for something else gives you both. Just upgrading the rest of the modules and equipment would then be the cheap option to get to a decent fit.

Something else about BPOs - with my skill levels they seem paper thin. If I can catch someone off guard I can mostly kill them in a flash. I have good aim especially with ADS on a rail rifle. But if they catch me off guard, it seems my suit is hardly even there - It's just ridiculous how fast they cut me up - my rail rifle hasn't even had a chance to charge to fire the first shot before I'm dead.

I'm used to shield tanking (EvE Online Caldari ships use exactly the same concepts). I'm used to tanking so that my suit will take enough damage before I can react to a side attack, then recharge the shields fast enough to deal with the DPS I'll take until I can kill them. The APEX suits, despite being deemed "Pro", are actually quite basic in their BPO fittings. I imagine this is so that people who buy them with AUR to get an edge actually need to be able to use them, so the PG/CPU of the fittings are limited. For me, there is about 30% the CPU and 40% of the PG of the suits unused. Not fitting at least the modules to use up this excess seems wasteful. Not trying to fit the suits to the best advantage really goes against the grain, especially when I die so fast I can't make any headway.

I think running BPOs is fundamentally good advice, under reasonable circumstances. But that doesn't take into account the ridiculously overwhelming number of proto stompers on the other side in almost every pubs match. Given that they are almost all proto stompers, I would have absolutely no chance of living through an encounter with virtually any of them in a BPO suit. It's not much better in a fully tanked suit, but at least I can survive long enough to maybe get a shot in.

So, it boils down to a choice between:
1. Run BPOs (APEX or MLT), die continuously and make virtually no WP and maybe no SP, but also don't lose ISK,
or
2. Run modified APEX or MLT suits, die less, maybe make a bit more WP and SP, for a small cost.

At the end of the day, the first option costs nothing but goes nowhere. The second option, however, has at least the chance of quality of play, costs a little, but allows me to make some WP, SP and of course more ISK. As a result, I'm having a tough time convincing myself running BPOs in pubs is the way to go. Maybe if I were a seasoned vet, running in squads, it would be an option. But a four-month experienced player running solo in a proto-stacked match? I think not.

I'm sure as I get better, my experience of running BPOs in proto stomped pubs will improve, but will it improve fast enough that I don't just leave the game in the meantime? And then there's the question about whether the game will even be here by then...

Well, APEX suits have a good basic weapon as part of the BPO, so I could just run with that. I've used ADV variants as well, and they do seem to make a difference, but now I think it's just a matter of the increased DPS giving me a little more of an edge.

I just noticed today that I'm no longer making headway ISK-wise. I put it down to the expense of my fits, and realised I had fallen for the trap of loading up my suits with modules to max out PG and CPU, but weapons are more expensive, and I've wondered whether I'm heading in the right direction.

I have Caldari state (APEX) suits for Assault, Scout and Commando, all of which come with the State Rail Rifle. I know that the adv and proto versions are better, but they are also a hell of a lot more expensive compared with, well, nothing, the State Rail Rifle being part of the APEX blueprints. Instead of putting better guns on my suits, I've beefed up the tank, scan profile and scan precision.

It's cheaper but I don't know that it's the right direction. Would I be better off to run weapons which are lower standard than the rest of the suit, higher than the rest of the suit, or about the same? I've used rifles like the State Kaalakiota Specialist Rail Rifle, and I was pretty impressed by it, but the rest of my suit isn't up to that standard, and I tend to die a lot if I use a rifle like that because I have to compromise on the PG and CPU for the rest of the suit.

Should I use a Kaala or Ishukone rifle on my suits without the necessary tank to back it up? That would be a lot more expensive, but would my K/D improve enough to make it worthwhile, or would I just be wasting ISK? I know a lot depends on the person concerned, but is there any general rule I can follow? I love the Kaala and the Ishukone and I'd love for someone to say "minimal tank, maximal DPS" but I suspect that's not the most efficient and productive way to do it...

I also have access to State Scout ck.0 and State Assault ck.0 but I've been avoiding them as well because I only have about lvl 3 skills to fit them with. Is the best approach to just try them and see, or wait until I have lvl 5 skills before using them? (Sort of like not going near the pool until I know how to swim?... :) )

I wouldn't quite say that. Again, I run a 40k ISK suit. If I'm having a bad game I might make 1000 WP, and only get 10 kills. I probably make anywhere from 700k-1 million ISK everyday I play. That's if I play 2-3 matches a each day. I'll give you a few tips to easily make ISK.

Run Uplinks. These things are basically WP farms. I easily make half of my WP every game off of people spawning on them. WP = ISK.

Set your sensitivity to max. This means you have faster tracking speed, and turning speed. It can take some getting used to, but it helps in engagements. Especially, ones where you get ambushed.

Finally, pick your battles. The most important thing in Dust is choosing when to engage. If you engage an enemy on your terms chances are you will melt them. I run ADV 90% of the time, and absolutely merc proto stompers. It's not because I'm good. It's because I know when I'm able to make the kill, and when I shouldn't bother attacking.

Honestly, if you learn how to manipulate the battles so you always engage on your terms EHP stacking becomes irrelevant. I think I have exactly one suit that has more than around 600 EHP that isn't a heavy suit.

Proto weapons don't have that much more damage than standard variants. Since I'm gallente I used assault rifles on all suits. The trick is to play to whatever weapon you have's advantage. Rail rifles?long range

I just took my time,and aimed at the heads of enemies in my optimal range. Ded. And the state rasetsu doesn't need much editing. I owned one and only switched the rail rifle for an assault rifle,the damage mod for a mlt sheild extender,and added a kincat to move little faster and upgraded a sheild regulator to complex. Probably under 15k. Mlt bpos though,fraking handy.

Had a super cheap "fat" assult. Just a milita caldari heavy frame. All mlt sheild extender bpos,except for like a energizer/recharger,a complex regulator,and two mlt weapon bpos. The assult rifle and scrambler pistol.

6k isk at most. 700 sheilds at 40hp/s (numbers are rounded down due to me forgetting the exact ones)
Almost defeated the point of getting a full caldari assult suit.

The hawk scout sucks. Saw the layout,the HP is just screaming "oneshotable". Actually I've had an assult scrambler pistol one hit with a headshot on one of those before.400% headshot multiplier......

You have the state sentinel apex right? Just keep all the modules and swap out anything that isn't sheild related. Put in mlt sheild bpos and grab a good recharger/energizer. Get a hmg and just take cover when the sheild is down.

Proto weapons don't have that much more damage than standard variants.

I made a killing in the initial trading rush. Used that wealth to assemble full MLT bpo mod collection.

Add in my exile and toxin, and assorted quafe. Put those on any number of c-l bpo.

Profit.


My goto fit has 400/200 with 75 sps in 2 d 1.5 dd with rail and mag.

Costs 3825......



And when you force yourself to stay that gimped all the time, you tend to stay rust-free.

I have a few MLT BPOs. Shield extender, shield regulator, range amplifier (why???) and myofib. I'd like a few more, perhaps shield recharger/energizers, and maybe a weapon or two, but I don't know where to get them other than buy them with AUR and I don't want to spend anymore real money on AUR....

I think the real only way you can be isk positive is to cheat somehow like the super isk-rich guys do or PC or whatever

or learn to slay in frontline suits. There is a thread talking about proto stompers being scrubs or whatever and if you can learn to kick ass in frontline gear, you'll stay isk positive!

I paid aur for the shield ones back in the day. Rest of em I got for 5-8m a pop in trade channels. (I collect bpo of all kinds) I'm in two very legit channels, msg me after noon central us and I'll invite you.

Thanks Devadander. Yes I would like to get a few more MLT BPOs, for instance some of the weapons. I could use them on frontline and APEX suits to upgrade their blueprints. I knew they could be bought for ISK but had no idea where. Yes, I'm interested in the trade channels.