Tanks on the beta old days were balenced but really expensive, everything went wrong after the hardener modules, back in the day, tanks were HP mountains (like beating a boss in most vg) or weak with quick regen.
They should keep tanks simple, with just 1 hardener per fitting or go back to the tank of old days but with infantry prices (well not that cheap, slightly more can do the trick).

Limiting fitting options is a terrible idea unless infantry like the idea of being limited to one shield hardener or armour repairer.

I never liked the idea of limiting items. IMO if a module is too powerful, nerf it. Like, nerf the miofibs, and take away the limit. Also, nerf hardeners.

I never liked the idea of limiting items. IMO if a module is too powerful, nerf it. Like, nerf the miofibs, and take away the limit. Also, nerf hardeners.

*AHEM*

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That is all.

Sorry, but you have no place in a vehicle balance thread. Your idea of balance is with tanks killing everything. How did you even become cpm when you are so biased?

I dunno if I'd call Breakin biased in favour of tanks. I've seen him arguing in favour of AV more than I've seen him argue in favour of tanks.

Which AV? Forge?

Buntly I am opposed to blanket buffs to any AV weapons without testing the ramifications of what will happen first. At the very least kill models need to be done via spreadsheet to determine the balance points at a baseline to figure out what breaks.

But here is my item-by-item response to your suggestions. My answers are italicized:

1 change the proficiency on the swarm launcher to bypass hardeners 5% bypassed per level.

There are no provisions for hardener penetration, and negating the purpose of having hardeners in the first place is pretty lame. Reducing hardeners to 1 per tank would make it possible for a swarmer to kill an HAV, but not trivially. Combined, your suggestions make doing so a trivial affair.

2 slow down the acceleration on tanks, making them more vulnerable when they camp infantry.

Maybe. This has been tossed around as a balancing factor as chrome tanks were a lot slower, and the fast speeds of today's tanks came as a bit of a shock to everyone. This might help. But for now, there are more likely to work solutions.

3 add permanent dispertion on all large turrets. No heat buildup required.

No. Railguns would be rendered worthless entirely for anything except shooting tanks at near point blank and killing stationary installations. Heavy Missile turrets are only good in the hands of a badass tank monkey and even then, aren't the best option. Blasters have obnoxious dispersion that requires a module that is an activated unit with a time duration to make them truly viable for infantry hitting.

4 nerf the range on all turrets to 100 meters. It's the swarmer's job to kill vehicles. He shouldn't be sniped by the thing he is trying to kill simply because of bad game mechanics. Of course, this could also be fixed by giving swarms a 300 meter lock on again.

Hell no, get out. Your premise "He shouldn't be sniped by the thing he is trying to kill simply because of bad game mechanics." is flawed because it is an opinion, and anecdotal at best.


Finally, Swarms are not meant to be the go-to AV option that is superior to all choices. Swarms are an AV choice. Your change suggestions would by and large render swarms superior to the Forge Gun and Plasma Cannon in just about every possible way, on the AV platform with the flat-out highest baseline DPS of any infantry AV weapon in the game.

I know this because I have TESTED these permutations. I have gone over them with tank drivers who aren't rabid win butan fanatics, and AV gunners who aren't of the opinion that having an AV weapon should mean an automatic kill against a vehicle.

I would suggest more thought and consideration to the problem and examining it both from the AV and from the driver's seat of a tank before providing one-sided solutions to acknowledged problems that benefit only your playstyle if you wish said suggestions taken more seriously.

He certainly isn't for helping out AV any. He sounds like a tanker to me

He certainly isn't for helping out AV any. He sounds like a tanker to me

I never liked the idea of limiting items. IMO if a module is too powerful, nerf it. Like, nerf the miofibs, and take away the limit. Also, nerf hardeners.

Why do you even want to kill tanks? It's not like they can reliably kill infantry anyways... They just sit there, trying (and failing) to kill things. Basically, unless the tank has good gunners (let's face it that never happens) it will have a harder time engaging infantry than infantry has engaging it.

I never liked the idea of limiting items. IMO if a module is too powerful, nerf it. Like, nerf the miofibs, and take away the limit. Also, nerf hardeners.

I honestly wish I had a co-axial small turret.

This...So much this...as much this as possible...

Infantry (for some reason vov) won't let that happen until the large blaster loses it's ability to fire quickly (even though it's already inaccurate against them). Arguing otherwise will end up making them saying "You just want to be all powerful monsters!" or some dribble like that, and the conversation will end there, as it always has.

Tanks on the beta old days were balenced but really expensive, everything went wrong after the hardener modules, back in the day, tanks were HP mountains (like beating a boss in most vg) or weak with quick regen.
They should keep tanks simple, with just 1 hardener per fitting or go back to the tank of old days but with infantry prices (well not that cheap, slightly more can do the trick).

Well...I'm pretty sure you know I want blaster mechanics to change, but that's because I want the turrets on the HAVs to feel like MBT turrets (also...a high RoF makes landing the individual shots less important...so there's that balance reasoning xD), but I respect that some people do like the fast firing turret as-is. So I will still campaign for something like a giant shotgun or Plasma cannon, I won't say that you are flat out wrong for liking what we have/had

So you're saying that a solo player in a tank is counterable by an entire squad. Yep, sounds totally balanced to me.

I run proto AV every match. I can't kill well built somas, much less gunnies, or maddies. Until 1 AV'er can kill 1 tanker, so long dust. It's been a crappy 4 years, and I'd like a refund for my aurum CCP.

Ways to fix since I put this here...

1 keep tanks strong, but take away their acceleration

2 make tanks weak, but keep the acceleration.

3 add dispertion to all hybrid large turrets, and nerf the range on them.

Hey, let me know if any of these things happen so I can actually enjoy a game not based on tank vs tank warfare only.

I'm a FG'er and this is an age-old situation that CCP makes worse on every release. I don't want to be able to take a tank out without some hard ass work but to even things I think they should lose one of their advantages when 1/2 damaged; Speed, Repairing or Firing. Disable any one and that's closer to fairness. Or maybe if they are severely damaged then high-acceleration increases the damage. That would give FG one more chance from long-distance.

I still take out a lot of tanks but I also die more since their aim precision was improved. Just part of the game. Other than picking off someone running in the open from 150m, there's nothing funner than watching a tank try to get away and not make it. Cheers

Just take out that module that increases tanks speed temporarily out of the game (can't remember it's name). See how OP armour tanks are after that.

I understand your point, but at the same time this point can be boiled down 'Tanks shouldn't be able to be killed 1v1 because then when they get into a 2v1 situation they are f*cked'. Which is the same scenario for every other non-vehicle player on the field. 2v1 with equivalent gear and the 1 is in trouble. It's not an even analogy because of the differences between infantry and vehicle combat, but the fact is that you can currently have people soloing in a fitting that cannot be killed by another player soloing in a fitting meant to counter the first. And with hardeners in their current state a solo Av player is better off trying to avoid a hardner stacked tank because they will accomplish nothing more than drawing it's attention to them. At best, scaring it away for a few seconds. The meta is broken and needs fixing. I'm not advocating any particular action, but in the end vehicles need to be able to be killed in a 1v1 fight.