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8213
Blauhelme
E.B.O.L.A.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.12 19:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Short and simple.
The redline exists for a reason, but often is subject to abuse from either team. In a perfect match-making world, it wouldn't be a problem, but stomps happen. The redline has also been abused by snipers, tanks, AFKers, and so on.
1. No damage can occur to or from a payer who is 50m or greater into the redline. Including OB Support. This will ensure that players aren't being camped and also ensure that less abuse occurs.
That's my solution.
Positive notes:
It will make snipers and FGs more into the sandbox of play. They must share equal risk and will no longer be able to hide so deep into the redline that they are unobtainable without drastic or suicidal measures.
It will also allow organized team to re-group and "bust out" of the redline with vehicles, stealth, etc. Becoming unredlined, and winning a math is at this time extremely difficult.
Some drawn backs will be railgun tanks bouncing between the 50m mark. However, a tank that has to approach within 50m of the redline will be much easier to neutralize.
Never thank me for ISK, never call me a legend, and always send your 'gg' to CCP.
Audacity of wanting improvement
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7th Son 7
Hakuna Matatah Inc
1
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Posted - 2015.11.12 19:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
I obviously think this is a great idea to prevent people from being picked off at their only safe place left to spawn in when a match gets to this point. You have great ideas man, hopefully the Dust illuminatti(however you spell that word) can pull their ostrich heads out of the sand long enough to recognize it, but you know......
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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Terry Webber
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
892
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Posted - 2015.11.12 20:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds like a good idea to me too.
Inertial Booster Module
Vehicle Installation
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.11.12 21:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wait, 8213 actually provide a good idea?! Preposterous!!!
Under contract by the Amarr Empire // Needs to send APEX to George
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
So....just so I understand. You cant take or receive damage while within 50m of the redline. Wont this just mean people can still camp the invisible "redline" still? It'll just be 50m closer to the center of the map. I mean sure it stops redline snipers, but I dont think it'll really do anything at all to stop people from being locked in the redline, people will still redline the other team...it'll just be 50 meters closer.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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8213
Blauhelme
E.B.O.L.A.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
No.
It means if you are beyond 50m in nothing can hurt you and you can't hurt anything from that point. It's fairly simple.
You can camp at 49 meters if you'd like, but at 49 meters, you're putting yourself at risk, unlike people who sit 300m deep
Never thank me for ISK, never call me a legend, and always send your 'gg' to CCP.
Audacity of wanting improvement
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
8213 wrote:No.
It means if you are beyond 50m in nothing can hurt you and you can't hurt anything from that point. It's fairly simple.
You can camp at 49 meters if you'd like, but at 49 meters, you're putting yourself at risk, unlike people who sit 300m deep
I get that part. What I'm saying is that players trying to break out of a redline will still get camped, they'll just be 50 meters closer to the objectives
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:8213 wrote:No.
It means if you are beyond 50m in nothing can hurt you and you can't hurt anything from that point. It's fairly simple.
You can camp at 49 meters if you'd like, but at 49 meters, you're putting yourself at risk, unlike people who sit 300m deep I get that part. What I'm saying is that players trying to break out of a redline will still get camped, they'll just be 50 meters closer to the objectives
50 meters "could" be the difference between a comeback victory and a redline stomp if you think about it.
Under contract by the Amarr Empire // Needs to send APEX to George
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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8213
Blauhelme
E.B.O.L.A.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
No, because you can go dep into the redline and call in a vehicle.
Or, you can still sneak out the side with a scout like you can now.
Never thank me for ISK, never call me a legend, and always send your 'gg' to CCP.
Audacity of wanting improvement
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
8213 wrote:No, because you can go dep into the redline and call in a vehicle.
Or, you can still sneak out the side with a scout like you can now.
Oye I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying..
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:8213 wrote:No, because you can go dep into the redline and call in a vehicle.
Or, you can still sneak out the side with a scout like you can now. Oye I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying..
Then maybe you should elaborate with an example? I hate when people say, "I don't think you understand" and then they leave it at that. If you think someone doesn't understand then explain it further until they do.
Under contract by the Amarr Empire // Needs to send APEX to George
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.13 02:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:8213 wrote:No, because you can go dep into the redline and call in a vehicle.
Or, you can still sneak out the side with a scout like you can now. Oye I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.. Then maybe you should elaborate with an example? I hate when people say, "I don't think you understand" and then they leave it at that. If you think someone doesn't understand then explain it further until they do.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/redline_zpsml1cel6b.png~original
Ok, on the left we have the current situation. In a redline situation the red team sits outside the redline. As the blues move towards the burnzone, they get gunned down, sometimes inside the redline, sometime just outside of it, it depends on the terrain, movement speed, ect. Either way, they dont make it very far.
On the right we have your proposal, the yellow being the DMZ zone. The reds likely move back a little, but they're probably a similar distance away from the DMZ line as they would be from the redline. Blues still move towards the burnzone. They can't be killed in the redline or the DMZ, but like in a normal Redline situation, the enemy is likely position and in entrenched in such a way such that they are prepared to gun the enemy down the second the blues are vulnerable.
In a normal redline situation, this moment of vulnerability depends on a lot of factors such as line of sight, distance, movement speed, ect.
In the proposed situation, that moment of vulnerability is potentially more predictable because it is at a guaranteed distance away from the redline, which is most likely out in the open and without cover. So in that situation the reds really only need to take a few steps back, and wait for the blues to run over the invisible yellow line, then proceed as they normally would in a redline situation.
---
Does it prevent people from sitting in the redline? Yes. Does it make a significant improvement in allowing blues to break out of a redline? I don't believe it would.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.11.13 02:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:8213 wrote:No, because you can go dep into the redline and call in a vehicle.
Or, you can still sneak out the side with a scout like you can now. Oye I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.. Then maybe you should elaborate with an example? I hate when people say, "I don't think you understand" and then they leave it at that. If you think someone doesn't understand then explain it further until they do. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/redline_zpsml1cel6b.png~original Ok, on the left we have the current situation. In a redline situation the red team sits outside the redline. As the blues move towards the burnzone, they get gunned down, sometimes inside the redline, sometime just outside of it, it depends on the terrain, movement speed, ect. Either way, they dont make it very far. On the right we have your proposal, the yellow being the DMZ zone. The reds likely move back a little, but they're probably a similar distance away from the DMZ line as they would be from the redline. Blues still move towards the burnzone. They can't be killed in the redline or the DMZ, but like in a normal Redline situation, the enemy is likely position and in entrenched in such a way such that they are prepared to gun the enemy down the second the blues are vulnerable. In a normal redline situation, this moment of vulnerability depends on a lot of factors such as line of sight, distance, movement speed, ect. In the proposed situation, that moment of vulnerability is potentially more predictable because it is at a guaranteed distance away from the redline, which is most likely out in the open and without cover. So in that situation the reds really only need to take a few steps back, and wait for the blues to run over the invisible yellow line, then proceed as they normally would in a redline situation. --- Does it prevent people from sitting in the redline? Yes. Does it make a significant improvement in allowing blues to break out of a redline? I don't believe it would.
Awesome explanation, 8213, take it away.
Under contract by the Amarr Empire // Needs to send APEX to George
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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8213
Blauhelme
E.B.O.L.A.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.13 02:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
On the right you display the team running into the DMZ. Remember, they only have 20 seconds to run in, and kill someone coming out of the safe zone. They would need to stand outside of the DMZ mostly. That 50m range should take enough of en edge off any handheld weapon fire for the team to battle out slowly. For intents and purposes, the redlined team can call in a dropship right on that line and use it to get out.
Now, if I'm looking at the image on the right upside down:
Yes, you can kill anyone who walks out of the DMZ, as you can now. But that buffer would give more exit options either by force or stealth. a squad forming in the DMZ can then shoot their way out. Or, there's more terrain for a scout to hide and weave in-and-out from until she sneaks out of either side.
I will admit, that some matches will just be one-sided stomps. Nothing will help the skill gap. And quite frankly, getting out of the redline takes about 20 seconds from any decent player. This is just something to help curb the stomps so that matches last enough for the other team to have more chances. For example, if you call in a tank or dropship, the Swarms and FGs camping the redline can't just keep you pinned in there. You can use the DMZ to reach a safe flight height in a dropship, or use the tank to bounce in and out during windows of opportunity using their high eHP and regen to move forward. Honestly, in my opinion; a redlined team should need to work hard to escape as they were put there for a reason.
The redline exists for a reason. But, also it has been abused by ultra range weapons as well as campers blocking any form of exit.
The barrier would be put in already existing redlines. It would extend the redline out any further.
Never thank me for ISK, never call me a legend, and always send your 'gg' to CCP.
Audacity of wanting improvement
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.13 03:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
The top of the diagram is towards the objectives, bottom is the blue spawn. Blues are trying to move up towards the objectives.
And yes you could group up in the DMZ...but honestly that isn't going to make much of a difference because you can do the same thing now, just deeper in the redline, but groups simply don't exhbit that level of organization in most situations...pushing the ability to do that closer to the objective s isn't going to modify that player behavior.
I think we are trying too hard to treat the symptoms of a redline rather than addressing the real issue which is how to avoid a redline situation in the first place.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Terry Webber
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
895
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Posted - 2015.11.13 04:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
You make some good points, Pokey. I think I have another solution:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=208740&find=unread
Inertial Booster Module
Vehicle Installation
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8213
Blauhelme
E.B.O.L.A.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.14 00:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:The top of the diagram is towards the objectives, bottom is the blue spawn. Blues are trying to move up towards the objectives.
And yes you could group up in the DMZ...but honestly that isn't going to make much of a difference because you can do the same thing now, just deeper in the redline, but groups simply don't exhbit that level of organization in most situations...pushing the ability to do that closer to the objective s isn't going to modify that player behavior.
I think we are trying too hard to treat the symptoms of a redline rather than addressing the real issue which is how to avoid a redline situation in the first place.
I totally agree. The matchmaking in this game is terrible. In a perfect match-making world, less matches would be redlines.
But, also my solution still addresses the abuse that comes from within the redline
Never thank me for ISK, never call me a legend, and always send your 'gg' to CCP.
Audacity of wanting improvement
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.11.14 01:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
8213 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:The top of the diagram is towards the objectives, bottom is the blue spawn. Blues are trying to move up towards the objectives.
And yes you could group up in the DMZ...but honestly that isn't going to make much of a difference because you can do the same thing now, just deeper in the redline, but groups simply don't exhbit that level of organization in most situations...pushing the ability to do that closer to the objective s isn't going to modify that player behavior.
I think we are trying too hard to treat the symptoms of a redline rather than addressing the real issue which is how to avoid a redline situation in the first place. I totally agree. The matchmaking in this game is terrible. In a perfect match-making world, less matches would be redlines. But, also my solution still addresses the abuse that comes from within the redline
It's not just matchmaking though, the way battles are set up...the way spawning works...these are all parts of the problem that cause redlines to happen.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.11.14 04:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Okay:
Fact1:
The fact that some games are one-sided and winning (W) team pushes the losing team (L) back is inevitable. There will be games like that every once in a while.
Fact2:
The redline exists because the maps aren't infinite and to give the L team a relative safe place to spawn in (because everyone hates being spawnkilled).
--> conclusion: redline's existence is perfectly legit
Fact3:
The redline is a target of complaints because:
- It is possible to use low risk tactics shooting out of there with powerful long range weapons (sniper, rail tank, forge)
- In worst cases, it is possible to participate in fighting for the point from within redline, sometimes even controlling who hacks it(!)
- In some cases, the redline isn't deep enough to grant safe vehicle deployment
Taking all those facts into consideration, there is at least one solution:
MAP DESIGN.
a) Make maps deep so that the opposing bases are far from the main fight area and very far from each other.
This eliminates the annoyance of redline gameplay, excluding the situation where it is okay (the case when the L team is stomped to their deep home end).
b) Make sure that the redline spawn areas are wide enough so spawn camping W side can't control all the spawns - or if they do, they'd be very spread out and therefore vulnerable.,
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
921
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Posted - 2015.11.14 06:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
i fell it would be more effective to make the installtions within the redline invincisble. such as the large blaster, rail, and missile installations.
and place them in better positions. to where they can actually make the redzone safe from redlining. this would create a much better effect on the maps. if those specific turrets cant be destroyed then they can be used to push back those that would try to redlining. or just make it alot riskier to do so.
great potential is always there..
it just has yet to be realized
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