DUST Search - Actually an attempt at constructive posting.

TheD1CK wrote:

Despite the fact any time I bother, it's usually a invite for trolls and an early grave Pirate

Hawkings grab a chair and a glass of water.. this may take a while Blink

A few changes that would increase gameplay quality for all modes + gamers

Suit locks for weapons.
- To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX)
- Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier.
(I have no issue on including modules here, though I am sure a few will)

Meta locks for battles.
All Public contracts lockout anything above ADV with the above lock in place ^^
(I'd really love a high risk gamemode added with this, where proto was expected + some added bonus)

FW.
The only change I'd make here is allowing platoons to deploy, easier access to fights this way.
(I'd kill for a lobby based FW rather than the searches.. but I can dream)

PC.
Penalties to stacking districts
- Increases to CP cost when using clones from a district on a stacked timer.
- So I send clones from a 18:00 district while I have a second district at this timer. CP cost x2 (x3 for 3 districts etc.)
- Bring back salvage to both teams, this way when outmatched you can at least earn some gear.

This imo would be a much better foundation for good battles. feedback is welcome

A sweet idea poached from LHughes and mixed with some thoughts I had..
- Fitting lists for each gamemode (along with metalock)
- I've always wanted to be able to side scroll and have more than one list of fittings !!
- Public (Metalocked) - FW (All) - PC (Uber tryhard).
A big issue I have is having mostly PC fits, and not bothering to remake them for pubs as it would mean making the same fits often, so I pretty much proto scrub as often as anyone. (luckily I'm bad) Adding more fitting lists solve this.

Metalocks get complained about as some fits dodge the higher numbers too easily, to counter this..
- CHANGE THE NUMBERS!! (Sentinel meta increase to make up for lack of slots leading to lower lvl)

Now, these are just tweaks to make the game more enjoyable and accessible for all mercs.. here's the good part Twisted

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TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:29:00 - [31] - Quote With the benefits these proposals would have for NPE.. I don't think it's asking too much for them to have to invest SP for better fittings. The advantage of proto on paper looks minimal, in-game it makes a much worse impact. SOONtm
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 591	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:46:00 - [32] - Quote I think tier lock would prove better than meta lock.
JAKE REDBLOOD 314	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:00:00 - [33] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: Is still think PC should go back got the old payouts as well, ie - losers get 0 isk, winners get is all The problem here is.. if CCP add too much reward for PC.. the circlejerks farm it (even without farming being an option, by sitting in stacked teams you can just farm actual people) We've seen how fast mercs chase the bandwagon for a paycheck, if payouts suck, blame them I'd be more open to.. - Increase winning payout % (we've been in 300 clone meatgrinders.. and paid 1.7mil.. wtf??) (And this is with good gear being used, not a good payout at all considering that's barely 1 mercs losses) - Both teams get salvage. (I know Rattati wanted lore blablablerp) But Rattati does not PC, and when you are against the odds with some guys murdering with Ghalags RR.. it is pretty nice to be able to kill the scrub and earn his weapon.. no salvage on losing side.. is just less reason to fight.. So say there needs to be a minimum of 10 mercs on either side from the corp they are fighting for, this way Corps would have to use their own members if they want a half decent payout... And if people are gonna try and farm they're gonna have to get 2 corps that can both generate enough cp and would have to have at least 20 guys on to farm it which would be way too much effort. My YouTube Channel
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:00:00 - [34] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: With the benefits these proposals would have for NPE.. I don't think it's asking too much for them to have to invest SP for better fittings. The advantage of proto on paper looks minimal, in-game it makes a much worse impact. Proto weapons are not the problem. 10% damage increases are not 'oh god everything is on fire' tier. Proto weapons in conjunction with proto suits, which have greatly increased fitting resources, absolutely. The effect is very significant when you have a full protosuit vs a standard one. But restricting newbies from using single tier weapon upgrades does not solve this. It doesn't even provide a tangible benefit. How can you believe that asking players to player over 50 matches so they can get their very first 5% damage upgrade after already earning it isn't much to ask? What positives are there about this change? There are a host of negatives. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:12:00 - [35] - Quote It's one aspect of the proposal.. I see your point However.. I strongly disagree with Proto not being an advantage The current state of the game is mostly Proto V MLT.. that is what I want to tackle 50 games.. you also gain passive SP, and daily missions to speed up that earning, I see your point.. it is a bit of a grind to get a suit to match the weapon.. but I think that should be encouraged.. for the most part an actual new player is wasting ISK if they are using above tier weapons on weaker suits, so I don't feel the impact of this is as bad as you think. SOONtm
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:17:00 - [36] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: However.. I strongly disagree with Proto not being an advantage This is not what I am saying. Literally the only thing that this proposal would achieve, in tandem with the locking out of proto from public matches, is preventing players using ADV weapons on STD suits. That is a 5% advantage and is insignificant, but represents one of the stepping stones for newbies progressing through the skill tree. The only purpose this serves is to deny that. Quote: The current state of the game is mostly Proto V MLT.. that is what I want to tackle Primarily due to the power jump in the dropsuits and modules, not in the weapons. This does not solve that. Quote: 50 games.. you also gain passive SP, and daily missions to speed up that earning, I see your point.. it is a bit of a grind to get a suit to match the weapon.. but I think that should be encouraged.. for the most part an actual new player is wasting ISK if they are using above tier weapons on weaker suits, so I don't feel the impact of this is as bad as you think. Asking someone to play 10 hours (at a very generous 5 games per hour, which is unlikely, but we can put down the difference to passive SP and daily missions) for their very first upgrade is a surefire way to put off newbies. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:41:00 - [37] - Quote But if they are warned they need it before the weapon, they then upgrade the suit first. Increasing their fitting ability before gaining a weapon. Is it really that bad?? if so, leave that part out. But I do not think so. Dammit Arkena you know my forum skillz can't take you on, you scoundrel!! SOONtm
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 991	Posted - 2015.11.07 19:50:00 - [38] - Quote Getting a new guy to play 4 matches after academy against redeyed demons is already damn near impossible. I've pulled in at least 30 friends, one stayed, and that's no surprise. He's a sadist.... Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 3	Posted - 2015.11.08 11:19:00 - [39] - Quote Leaving out the Suit/Tier lock. Adjusting numbers for metalvls on certain items to equal the results of varied fittings - No splitting up the playerbase as there will NOT be two options ? Certain gamemodes having a set metalock is an option ? Removal of OFC/PRO gear in pubs is needed over a year ago With the mix of SP in teams it is practically cheating at times vs low SP mercs (GOD mode activated) I am well aware a merc can do as well in a low tier fit (even I did once) but better gear is tilting the odds in your favour In the damn casual modes. This is my grudge against CCP. The single worst decision they made was not balancing the use of gear durkadur SOONtm
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.08 13:55:00 - [40] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: But if they are warned they need it before the weapon, they then upgrade the suit first. Increasing their fitting ability before gaining a weapon. Is it really that bad?? if so, leave that part out. But I do not think so. Is it really worth it? That's what I'm really asking. The one, specific situation that this set of restrictions excludes is someone equipping an ADV weapon on a STD suit in a pubmatch. Is that a situation that genuinely needs restricting? I can't see a benefit, and I don't think you've successfully pointed one out, either. A lockout of proto from pubs will do vastly more than such a change ever could for reducing protostomping. This particular one... doesn't really do much. The negatives outweigh the negligible (nonexistent?) positives. Perhaps you could simply modify the proposal to exclude it? The real change you want here is the metalocks. Quote: Dammit Arkena you know my forum skillz can't take you on, you scoundrel!! Maybe I'm being excessively pedantic. But one of my first experiences as a newbie was this exact situation that I describe, and regularly as I 'adopt' newbies and walk them through the skill tree I find that the first thing they choose to upgrade is their favourite weapon. It's a natural thing to do, and not nearly as expensive as upgrading the dropsuit, which is typically done much later. Do note that the only part of your proposal that I'm savaging is the first part: original post wrote: Suit locks for weapons. - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. That's all. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.11.08 14:49:00 - [41] - Quote OP in bold - Feedback in italics. Suit locks for weapons. - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. (I have no issue on including modules here, though I am sure a few will) Agree with the PRO lock & APEX restriction, but players should be able to fit ADV weapon on STD suit because that's the normal & rational upgrade path for a new player. Meta locks for battles. All Public contracts lockout anything above ADV with the above lock in place ^^ (I'd really love a high risk gamemode added with this, where proto was expected + some added bonus) Would be happy to live with this restriction in pubs because it improves the NPE. Applies to all modules too? FW. The only change I'd make here is allowing platoons to deploy, easier access to fights this way. (I'd kill for a lobby based FW rather than the searches.. but I can dream) No opinion. PC. Penalties to stacking districts - Increases to CP cost when using clones from a district on a stacked timer. - So I send clones from a 18:00 district while I have a second district at this timer. CP cost x2 (x3 for 3 districts etc.) - Bring back salvage to both teams, this way when outmatched you can at least earn some gear. This imo would be a much better foundation for good battles. feedback is welcome No opinion. A sweet idea poached from LHughes and mixed with some thoughts I had.. - Fitting lists for each gamemode (along with metalock) - I've always wanted to be able to side scroll and have more than one list of fittings !! - Public (Metalocked) - FW (All) - PC (Uber tryhard). A big issue I have is having mostly PC fits, and not bothering to remake them for pubs as it would mean making the same fits often, so I pretty much proto scrub as often as anyone. (luckily I'm bad) Adding more fitting lists solve this. A fitting grid would be welcome, but....does # fittings affect load time or lag? Metalocks get complained about as some fits dodge the higher numbers too easily, to counter this.. - CHANGE THE NUMBERS!! (Sentinel meta increase to make up for lack of slots leading to lower lvl) Agree. Also meta decrease for logis. Also agree with differential payouts for meta level differences, would prolly add a second buff to WP based on the enemy 'big dogs': if a enemy merc is posting lots of WP in a match our contract holders would post an ingame bounty for taking that merc out. This bounty doesn't even need a UI mechanic: just pull up the match roster and see which bad guys are at the top of the list and go gunning for them. It would be the equivalent of our contract holder saying 'get that fukkr!' PSN: RationalSpark
rpastry Dead Man's Game 343	Posted - 2015.11.09 12:02:00 - [42] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: *Suit locks for weapons.* - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. (I have no issue on including modules here, though I am sure a few will) I know you give the game a lot of thought but i struggle to see how this would make anything better for anyone other then the rich? Sticking a better weapon on a lower tier suit (either isk/au or salvaged or from a lockbox) is one of the few things a less experienced player can do to level the playing field, restricting suits to equivalent weapon/module tier will make 'protostomping' more extreme. i havent read the whole thread so apologies if im repeating [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 3	Posted - 2015.11.09 12:13:00 - [43] - Quote Fine!!! I submit. The Suit Tier lock is not going to work Even when I started being able to put an ADV weapon on basic suits can help I suppose. The main reason I included this and put it first, is because I think mixed tier fittings will be the biggest problem for metalocks. Especially if CCP go the way of staying below X metalvl for certain modes (as a basic suit w/proto weapon may bypass this) but I see the points made against it by Arkena and pastry.. and I don't have a counter argument that is within forum rules One dust tape fix (CCP love those) would be only making the tier lock for Proto Weapons. - Lore, derpaderpa, PRO weapons are so fabulous they can only operate on PRO suits Seeing as both of you used "help the newbro's by using ADV on cheaper fits" Is it still an issue if we restrict the use of Proto only to screw over the vets ??? SOONtm
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 3	Posted - 2015.11.09 12:30:00 - [44] - Quote @ Vrain. I think an adjustment only to tier lock APEX+PRO would be fair. Why should the best of suits be fit with anything less than Proto And APEX.. is a damn cheap fit that with base skills and tweaked fittings is comparable to proto, locking out ADV+ would be nice (They are already the ultimate ISK grinding suits, allowing proto lvl adjustments is not good - lock to basic) Ideally a lock-out would apply to suits+guns+modules.. but agreeing on something would be a task. As for a fitting grid.. I am unsure what effects it would have. Personally I use -10 fittings at all times but tbh it's as reliable as the goat sacrifices. Only CCP could tell you. PC/FW. Many will have no opinion on this sadly as not all take part. full FW teams just makes kickstarting easier (the only way to play FW on EU timers) PC, if stacking timers affected CP costs, we would see some changes (for once) in the starmap as Corps would be unable to stack timers and make use of the clones for sales/attacks. With current activity.. having 10 districts is more than enough so if the players cannot see that and make the change, CCP may have to do it for them (spoon feed the fat kids in the sandbox) this entire gamemode is a waste in it's current state. Inb4 it doesn't work QQ (it's as laggy as any other mode at this stage) yes some games do get right down to unplayable.. but if there was more rotation of district holding, if you lagged out and lost one it's no real harm to your Corp. In the current setup, where small Corps have 1/2 districts, it is a kick in the nuts getting knocked out and starting again. So either by that change or another, something to counter land hording is needed imo. SOONtm
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.11.09 16:24:00 - [45] - Quote I agree mixed-tier fitting and a meta lock are a mess, and also that min-maxing meta by fitting PRO on lower tier suits would be a thing, prolly a big thing. Tbh, i'd be happy to see all pro locked out of pubs. PSN: RationalSpark
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.09 16:30:00 - [46] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Despite the fact any time I bother, it's usually a invite for trolls and an early grave Hawkings grab a chair and a glass of water.. this may take a while A few changes that would increase gameplay quality for all modes + gamers *Suit locks for weapons.* - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. (I have no issue on including modules here, though I am sure a few will) Meta locks for battles. All Public contracts lockout anything above ADV with the above lock in place ^^ (I'd really love a high risk gamemode added with this, where proto was expected + some added bonus) *FW.* The only change I'd make here is allowing platoons to deploy, easier access to fights this way. (I'd kill for a lobby based FW rather than the searches.. but I can dream) *PC.* Penalties to stacking districts - Increases to CP cost when using clones from a district on a stacked timer. - So I send clones from a 18:00 district while I have a second district at this timer. CP cost x2 (x3 for 3 districts etc.) - Bring back salvage to both teams, this way when outmatched you can at least earn some gear. This imo would be a much better foundation for good battles. feedback is welcome A sweet idea poached from LHughes and mixed with some thoughts I had.. - Fitting lists for each gamemode (along with metalock) - I've always wanted to be able to side scroll and have more than one list of fittings !! - Public (Metalocked) - FW (All) - PC (Uber tryhard). A big issue I have is having mostly PC fits, and not bothering to remake them for pubs as it would mean making the same fits often, so I pretty much proto scrub as often as anyone. (luckily I'm bad) Adding more fitting lists solve this. Metalocks get complained about as some fits dodge the higher numbers too easily, to counter this.. - CHANGE THE NUMBERS!! (Sentinel meta increase to make up for lack of slots leading to lower lvl) Now, these are just tweaks to make the game more enjoyable and accessible for all mercs.. here's the good part wait apex is pro suit, why not pro weapons on it? *"I'm glad there is still Fallout because game development is dead."* `One common gamer`
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 3	Posted - 2015.11.09 16:30:00 - [47] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I agree mixed-tier fitting and a meta lock are a mess, and also that min-maxing meta by fitting PRO on lower tier suits would be a thing, prolly a big thing. Tbh, i'd be happy to see all pro locked out of pubs. Yup.. there is no justification for it. Sure there are a list of excuses for it But, nothing that justifies players ruining casual gamemodes with the best tiers of Suits/Weapons just for lolz SOONtm
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 3	Posted - 2015.11.09 16:31:00 - [48] - Quote Postapo.. APEX is not a Proto suit.. that is just the duct tape label on them that we haven't bought enough AUR to get changed. SOONtm
rpastry Dead Man's Game 344	Posted - 2015.11.09 23:15:00 - [49] - Quote I'd like to see a meta based contract system for pubs instead of one where you select game modes. low tech poor worlds issue low isk contracts and have limited gear selection available, high tech rich worlds offer more lucrative contracts and have the gear available. players can choose what gear level to play at, but not what game mode they will play. so instead of dom/skirm/amb/acq checkboxes you get mlt/bas/adv/pro. the hardcore can still take their mlt fits to pro contracts ofc for extra challenge they all talk about loving. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]


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