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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: *Suit locks for weapons.* - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. I don't think I agree. When a newbie is looking to upgrade their first piece of kit, what is it normally? I imagine that in the vast majority of cases it's their weapon. So this newbie has gotten assault rifles 3. They've bought a shiny new GEK-38 and are eager to use it... Only to discover that they need a hefty chunk more SP before they can, despite having unlocked it I don't think fitting proto weapons on ADV suits is a problem. It's prohibitively expensive both in terms of ISK and fitting resources for a very minor benefit. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:24:00 - [2] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Indeed, but it causes more issue for metalocks And the WP for kills based on tiers would be thrown off, by cheap suit w/PRO weapon 'Cheap suit' and 'proto weapon' are mutually exclusive. You get barely any benefit from using a proto weapon over a standard one - literally just a 10% increase - but pay massively for the privilege. Making progression for newbies even more of a pain is hardly worth such a thing. What would it actually benefit? Is there some epidemic of people using desperately overpowered proto weapons on their ADV suits? Quote: - A newbie is not getting that far ahead with just a gun.. being told he needs the suit to go with it would help imo Exactly - nobody is getting particularly far ahead with just a gun. So why bother restricting them? Quote: And don't forget the 750k cap.. not too much effort to grind for a new suit "Just go and play another 50 matches." That's not even hyperbole. It takes 500k SP to go from level 1 to 3 dropsuits, and newbies are not likely to be earning more than 10k SP a match. If anything they're likely to be earning even less. It is absurd to demand a newbie play in excess of 50 matches just so they can use the weapon they already unlocked playing several other matches all for their very first progression upgrade. And all that, for unclear benefits that are at best minimal. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:00:00 - [3] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: With the benefits these proposals would have for NPE.. I don't think it's asking too much for them to have to invest SP for better fittings. The advantage of proto on paper looks minimal, in-game it makes a much worse impact. Proto weapons are not the problem. 10% damage increases are not 'oh god everything is on fire' tier. Proto weapons in conjunction with proto suits, which have greatly increased fitting resources, absolutely. The effect is very significant when you have a full protosuit vs a standard one. But restricting newbies from using single tier weapon upgrades does not solve this. It doesn't even provide a tangible benefit. How can you believe that asking players to player over 50 matches so they can get their very first 5% damage upgrade after already earning it isn't much to ask? What positives are there about this change? There are a host of negatives. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:17:00 - [4] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: However.. I strongly disagree with Proto not being an advantage This is not what I am saying. Literally the only thing that this proposal would achieve, in tandem with the locking out of proto from public matches, is preventing players using ADV weapons on STD suits. That is a 5% advantage and is insignificant, but represents one of the stepping stones for newbies progressing through the skill tree. The only purpose this serves is to deny that. Quote: The current state of the game is mostly Proto V MLT.. that is what I want to tackle Primarily due to the power jump in the dropsuits and modules, not in the weapons. This does not solve that. Quote: 50 games.. you also gain passive SP, and daily missions to speed up that earning, I see your point.. it is a bit of a grind to get a suit to match the weapon.. but I think that should be encouraged.. for the most part an actual new player is wasting ISK if they are using above tier weapons on weaker suits, so I don't feel the impact of this is as bad as you think. Asking someone to play 10 hours (at a very generous 5 games per hour, which is unlikely, but we can put down the difference to passive SP and daily missions) for their very first upgrade is a surefire way to put off newbies. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 28	Posted - 2015.11.08 13:55:00 - [5] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: But if they are warned they need it before the weapon, they then upgrade the suit first. Increasing their fitting ability before gaining a weapon. Is it really that bad?? if so, leave that part out. But I do not think so. Is it really worth it? That's what I'm really asking. The one, specific situation that this set of restrictions excludes is someone equipping an ADV weapon on a STD suit in a pubmatch. Is that a situation that genuinely needs restricting? I can't see a benefit, and I don't think you've successfully pointed one out, either. A lockout of proto from pubs will do vastly more than such a change ever could for reducing protostomping. This particular one... doesn't really do much. The negatives outweigh the negligible (nonexistent?) positives. Perhaps you could simply modify the proposal to exclude it? The real change you want here is the metalocks. Quote: Dammit Arkena you know my forum skillz can't take you on, you scoundrel!! Maybe I'm being excessively pedantic. But one of my first experiences as a newbie was this exact situation that I describe, and regularly as I 'adopt' newbies and walk them through the skill tree I find that the first thing they choose to upgrade is their favourite weapon. It's a natural thing to do, and not nearly as expensive as upgrading the dropsuit, which is typically done much later. Do note that the only part of your proposal that I'm savaging is the first part: original post wrote: Suit locks for weapons. - To use a PRO weapon, it could only be equipped on a PRO suit (not APEX) - Any weapon can be fit on a suit equal or above the weapons tier. That's all. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Kaze, you are best logi. Best. Logi.

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