DUST Search - Now that shield tanking is in a healthy spot...

Sicerly Yaw wrote:

shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch

armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat

just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools

its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up

shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em

oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus

I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious

the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other

the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps

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Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 06:37:00 - [1] - Quote Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:05:00 - [2] - Quote shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Reserved
Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:37:00 - [3] - Quote Not asking for a crutch just asking that some of the harsher nerfs that were applied when shield suits were under performing be dialed back now that shields are on par. if anything it sounds like you want a crutch. Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Union118 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 751	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:40:00 - [4] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Armor is in a good spot i wouldnt change it. I like my caldari but i find that im starting to lean on my gal assault lately cuz shields take les time to go down than armor but only slightly in my opinion. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:18:00 - [5] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:30:00 - [6] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Not asking for a crutch just asking that some of the harsher nerfs that were applied when shield suits were under performing be dialed back now that shields are on par. if anything it sounds like you want a crutch. Hmmmm..... you I approve of. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:47:00 - [7] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 10:24:00 - [8] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 35	Posted - 2015.10.13 10:55:00 - [9] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Armor isn't gone and the one wearing it dead after a single loaded ScrR shot neither. Also, armor doesn't turn into air after a nade, letting one nacked with 175 Shp. Shield can't be loaded up instantly from a comp.hive, KR hive, rep tool, while standing under fire.... The regen of shields is a balance?? A wise proverb said once by someone here: "it doesn't matter how fast I get my shields back, if I'm already laying on the ground with guts hanging out of my ass after the first shot" Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:33:00 - [10] - Quote I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)

Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:50:00 - [11] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Armor isn't gone and the one wearing it dead after a single loaded ScrR shot neither. Neither is shields unless you didn't tank it at all. 'Oh noes, an anti-shield weapon can really hurt me' is certainly true but all this pretending it's an instant OHKO weapon in all the circumstances ever is claptrap. Quote: Also, armor doesn't turn into air after a nade, letting one nacked with 175 Shp. In point of fact, it pretty much does. Practically all grenades (barring the sleek, but when was the last time you saw that used?) now do 720 damage to armour, and more if they're airbursted correctly. More importantly, locus grenades can actually kill you. Flux grenades, no matter how many go off next to you, won't kill you. Quote: Shield can't be loaded up instantly from a comp.hive, KR hive, rep tool, while standing under fire.... The regen of shields is a balance?? This requires the following: A) You stand in a near-fixed position. B) You are reliant on multiple easily destructible equipment. C) You need multiple players. A and B mean your setup is extremely vulnerable to both flux and locus grenades, the latter of which are highly likely to kill you and possibly your logi, and additionally your setup can be broken up by a single stray shot landing on a hive. C means you are actively taking guns off the field. Meanwhile, shield tanks can regenerate faster than an armour tank standing on a prototype triage hive, with a logi... if they pay the terrible, terrible price of having to wait an entire second. They do not require attendant players. They do not require you to stand still. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:54:00 - [12] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: (i.e. double strafe penalty) I'm all for examining armor for viability in this new shield tank meta, but no. Just no. Strafing in all it's forms needs to stay dead. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:54:00 - [13] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:58:00 - [14] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: What is that intended to achieve? I believe it is intended to slightly reduce the gap in repair times between armor and shields. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:01:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: What is that intended to achieve? I believe it is intended to slightly reduce the gap in repair times between armor and shields. That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:05:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:16:00 - [17] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. I'm not sure that's a great idea, though. Either it's a bad module in which case damage mods and myofibrils out compete it, or it shores up armour tanks to the extent that they may become really quite strong. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
JEDI LORD HOTH 15	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:29:00 - [18] - Quote It took them 2 years to balance shields and armor? And peeps give them kudos for it. Nice to see all is well here at Jonestown514. Enjoy the People's Temple with your gallons of Kool-AidGäó. Abandon Ship514. International Peace Sign incoming throws up middle .l.. finger
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:33:00 - [19] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Yeah, but it can constantly rep at 30 hp/s if you fit it right. A properly fit brawler style armor tank is so much more effective than shields in CQC. Shields require respite to regen. Take a GK.0, and fit it with two plates and 3 reps. Run some damage mods and a Duvolle, wander into CQC and destroy everything you see. If you use cover well, you are VERY hard to kill. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:34:00 - [20] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. Only if we get defense field extenders or purgers in the lows as well Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here

Regnier Feros Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:03:00 - [21] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Yeah, but it can constantly rep at 30 hp/s if you fit it right. A properly fit brawler style armor tank is so much more effective than shields in CQC. Shields require respite to regen. Take a GK.0, and fit it with two plates and 3 reps. Run some damage mods and a Duvolle, wander into CQC and destroy everything you see. If you use cover well, you are VERY hard to kill. ._. I LIKE PIE
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:32:00 - [22] - Quote One thing I didn't like much about the hotfix is that, most Caldari Assaults are taking their higher regen stats to use armor on their lows instead of shield Regulators. Like, bruh. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 399	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:34:00 - [23] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: (i.e. double strafe penalty) I'm all for examining armor for viability in this new shield tank meta, but no. Just no. Strafing in all it's forms needs to stay dead. I second this^^^^^^ \0/
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 505	Posted - 2015.10.13 15:17:00 - [24] - Quote Armor is heavy that's why the penalty..you don't want a penalty then put on a fero that's more armor than a shield yet has no penalty but I'm assuming you're the type that uses complex plates for my hp then you should stick to heavy mando..assault are meant for speed not sit there with 1k armor that I see a lot from the current Amarr assaults then complain about being slow CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:08:00 - [25] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Fun fact: shield users still get penalized for using extenders and energizers. Nobody cares.
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:27:00 - [26] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Fun fact: shield users still get penalized for using extenders and energizers. Nobody cares. Mostly because the penalty is negligible and not something to care about. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:08:00 - [27] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:16:00 - [28] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Maybe he was one from my yesterday forge raid XD "Forge Sentinel - Corrosive Synergy"
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 19:13:00 - [29] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... last I recall they can, in fact they take less time due to triage hives and rep tools which are not available to shield users the way I see it you want to take away one of the only downsides of using armor suits speed v hp has always been one of the major balance parities and since shield suits didn't get an hp buff there is no reason to mess with those numbers Reserved
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 117	Posted - 2015.10.13 19:16:00 - [30] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... Why is Amarr and Gallente getting less repair than we currently have? Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "



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