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Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 06:37:00 - [1] - Quote Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:05:00 - [2] - Quote shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Reserved
Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:37:00 - [3] - Quote Not asking for a crutch just asking that some of the harsher nerfs that were applied when shield suits were under performing be dialed back now that shields are on par. if anything it sounds like you want a crutch. Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Union118 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 751	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:40:00 - [4] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Armor is in a good spot i wouldnt change it. I like my caldari but i find that im starting to lean on my gal assault lately cuz shields take les time to go down than armor but only slightly in my opinion. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:18:00 - [5] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:30:00 - [6] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Not asking for a crutch just asking that some of the harsher nerfs that were applied when shield suits were under performing be dialed back now that shields are on par. if anything it sounds like you want a crutch. Hmmmm..... you I approve of. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:47:00 - [7] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Your light is gone from this world, but not our hearts. Rest in our Lord's embrace, Empress Jamyl I
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 10:24:00 - [8] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 35	Posted - 2015.10.13 10:55:00 - [9] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Armor isn't gone and the one wearing it dead after a single loaded ScrR shot neither. Also, armor doesn't turn into air after a nade, letting one nacked with 175 Shp. Shield can't be loaded up instantly from a comp.hive, KR hive, rep tool, while standing under fire.... The regen of shields is a balance?? A wise proverb said once by someone here: "it doesn't matter how fast I get my shields back, if I'm already laying on the ground with guts hanging out of my ass after the first shot" Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:33:00 - [10] - Quote I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)

Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:50:00 - [11] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Armor isn't gone and the one wearing it dead after a single loaded ScrR shot neither. Neither is shields unless you didn't tank it at all. 'Oh noes, an anti-shield weapon can really hurt me' is certainly true but all this pretending it's an instant OHKO weapon in all the circumstances ever is claptrap. Quote: Also, armor doesn't turn into air after a nade, letting one nacked with 175 Shp. In point of fact, it pretty much does. Practically all grenades (barring the sleek, but when was the last time you saw that used?) now do 720 damage to armour, and more if they're airbursted correctly. More importantly, locus grenades can actually kill you. Flux grenades, no matter how many go off next to you, won't kill you. Quote: Shield can't be loaded up instantly from a comp.hive, KR hive, rep tool, while standing under fire.... The regen of shields is a balance?? This requires the following: A) You stand in a near-fixed position. B) You are reliant on multiple easily destructible equipment. C) You need multiple players. A and B mean your setup is extremely vulnerable to both flux and locus grenades, the latter of which are highly likely to kill you and possibly your logi, and additionally your setup can be broken up by a single stray shot landing on a hive. C means you are actively taking guns off the field. Meanwhile, shield tanks can regenerate faster than an armour tank standing on a prototype triage hive, with a logi... if they pay the terrible, terrible price of having to wait an entire second. They do not require attendant players. They do not require you to stand still. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:54:00 - [12] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: (i.e. double strafe penalty) I'm all for examining armor for viability in this new shield tank meta, but no. Just no. Strafing in all it's forms needs to stay dead. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:54:00 - [13] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 11:58:00 - [14] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: What is that intended to achieve? I believe it is intended to slightly reduce the gap in repair times between armor and shields. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:01:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: What is that intended to achieve? I believe it is intended to slightly reduce the gap in repair times between armor and shields. That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:05:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:16:00 - [17] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. I'm not sure that's a great idea, though. Either it's a bad module in which case damage mods and myofibrils out compete it, or it shores up armour tanks to the extent that they may become really quite strong. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
JEDI LORD HOTH 15	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:29:00 - [18] - Quote It took them 2 years to balance shields and armor? And peeps give them kudos for it. Nice to see all is well here at Jonestown514. Enjoy the People's Temple with your gallons of Kool-AidGäó. Abandon Ship514. International Peace Sign incoming throws up middle .l.. finger
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:33:00 - [19] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Yeah, but it can constantly rep at 30 hp/s if you fit it right. A properly fit brawler style armor tank is so much more effective than shields in CQC. Shields require respite to regen. Take a GK.0, and fit it with two plates and 3 reps. Run some damage mods and a Duvolle, wander into CQC and destroy everything you see. If you use cover well, you are VERY hard to kill. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 12:34:00 - [20] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That mostly stems from the percentage based nature of shield regen modules, IMHO. A buff of a couple of points on the base wouldn't change much as dropsuit armour repair modules, the primary source of regeneration for armour tanks, are not percentage based. Consider a three-rep regen tank. Those three reppers bring in a shade over 27 HP/s on their own. Even the highest base rep amounts, at 5 HP/s, IIRC, do not even begin to compete with those numbers. I hate to immediately jump at the idea of making a new module, but the Nanite Pump high-slot module Pokey suggested might help. It suggests that the armor repair rate be increased by a percentage. Only if we get defense field extenders or purgers in the lows as well Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here

Regnier Feros Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:03:00 - [21] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... Yeah, but it can constantly rep at 30 hp/s if you fit it right. A properly fit brawler style armor tank is so much more effective than shields in CQC. Shields require respite to regen. Take a GK.0, and fit it with two plates and 3 reps. Run some damage mods and a Duvolle, wander into CQC and destroy everything you see. If you use cover well, you are VERY hard to kill. ._. I LIKE PIE
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:32:00 - [22] - Quote One thing I didn't like much about the hotfix is that, most Caldari Assaults are taking their higher regen stats to use armor on their lows instead of shield Regulators. Like, bruh. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 399	Posted - 2015.10.13 13:34:00 - [23] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: (i.e. double strafe penalty) I'm all for examining armor for viability in this new shield tank meta, but no. Just no. Strafing in all it's forms needs to stay dead. I second this^^^^^^ \0/
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 505	Posted - 2015.10.13 15:17:00 - [24] - Quote Armor is heavy that's why the penalty..you don't want a penalty then put on a fero that's more armor than a shield yet has no penalty but I'm assuming you're the type that uses complex plates for my hp then you should stick to heavy mando..assault are meant for speed not sit there with 1k armor that I see a lot from the current Amarr assaults then complain about being slow CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:08:00 - [25] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Fun fact: shield users still get penalized for using extenders and energizers. Nobody cares.
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:27:00 - [26] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Fun fact: shield users still get penalized for using extenders and energizers. Nobody cares. Mostly because the penalty is negligible and not something to care about. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:08:00 - [27] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:16:00 - [28] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Maybe he was one from my yesterday forge raid XD "Forge Sentinel - Corrosive Synergy"
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 19:13:00 - [29] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Is it possible to roll back some of those draconian armor nerfs(i.e. double strafe penalty) or perhaps even give us Amarr our true tanking style of resist tanking. Or will armor tankers continue to be punished for using plates... Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Last I recall armor doesn't come back from 0 to full in 5-8 seconds... last I recall they can, in fact they take less time due to triage hives and rep tools which are not available to shield users the way I see it you want to take away one of the only downsides of using armor suits speed v hp has always been one of the major balance parities and since shield suits didn't get an hp buff there is no reason to mess with those numbers Reserved
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 117	Posted - 2015.10.13 19:16:00 - [30] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... Why is Amarr and Gallente getting less repair than we currently have? Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "

Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 19:18:00 - [31] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up) my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively 8 6 4 2 my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps Reserved
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 20:12:00 - [32] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up) my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively 8 6 4 2 my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.13 22:14:00 - [33] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. I also approve of you. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.10.14 00:59:00 - [34] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Maybe he was one from my yesterday forge raid XD I'm honoured to be one of the victims your yesterday forge raid, nice shooting o7 I've been running strong sheild suits, strong armour suits, and general-purpose minmatar suits since foxfour landed. They're all performing well, imo - 'specially that one whut gets the bonuses to the AR, but that's another sack of kittens. PSN: RationalSpark
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 01:10:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. I also approve of you. amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5 so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy Reserved
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.14 03:04:00 - [36] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields. Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. ^ Dropsuit Usage Rates
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 05:59:00 - [37] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: True Adamance wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. I also approve of you. amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5 so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy Now that is fine and all but you do understand that there is now at in this game for the any suit at all to do resistance tanking, we don't have those kinds of modules. If resistance moduls were a thing then every race besides the amarr can have regen because I'll be using resistance more Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 62	Posted - 2015.10.14 11:38:00 - [38] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Shields and armour are completely different things. I wouldn't compare them at all. Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier, but repairs slowly. That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different. The best shields will not necessarily be huge, but will have fast regen. Armour, however, has to be more "solid".
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.14 12:27:00 - [39] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Shields and armour are completely different things. I wouldn't compare them at all. Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier, but repairs slowly. That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different. The best shields will not necessarily be huge, but will have fast regen. Armour, however, has to be more "solid". I disagree entirely with the notion that they're incomparable. It's not a simple comparison - just saying 'this has more HP than that therefore it is better' is hardly accurate - but being a complex comparison doesn't mean they can't be compared at all, you just need to break it down into pieces. Alena Asakura wrote: That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different. Is that so different, honestly? Aside from the different words you chose to use to describe the action of recovering HP (which are interchangeable, really) is it so fundamentally different? They both recover HP in ticks. They're both the same mechanic, really, one just has a delay and the other doesn't. Quote: Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier but repairs slowly. Does armour not potentially collapse in an instant as well? Bar the heaviest tanks (sentinels) no matter how you tank your dropsuit, when the right weapons are brought to bear it'll get vaporised. Airburst a locus grenade, even a standard one, over an armour suit and it'll get hit with 720 damage that can actually kill rather than damage, like a flux. I suppose you could say that armour does indeed regen slowly compared to shields right now, but if you really want to run a rep fit it can regen at a fairly respectable rate without bringing outside assistance into the equation. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.14 18:48:00 - [40] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: True Adamance wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. I also approve of you. amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5 so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy It's like you aren't even aware who you are talking to.... by the way Minmatar aren't typically Armour rep tankers. Their logi ship are all shield based and they have few if no notable examples of content that specifically related to armour rep bonuses. Thus there is no reason why they should have better rep values that any other race particularly the Amarr who specialize in armour use. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.

Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 281	Posted - 2015.10.14 18:58:00 - [41] - Quote Armor! Armor! Armor! "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:58:00 - [42] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Noone fits 5 shields either...not only because it'll cost 55 pg but because it is not effective either. You can fit 5 ferroscales and a triage and be ready to go. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:05:00 - [43] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Preaching to the choir bro lol! Guys like sincerely only only want to hear logic when it pertains to them. Your point here is as valid as they come, but these guys will just start saying things like"QQ" and "htfu" lol! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:11:00 - [44] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here. How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2 These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up) my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively 8 6 4 2 my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr. Too much logic, forum warriors can't compute this much logic. All you'll get is "htfu", "the min assault is not OP cause I said so", and "get gud scrub" (i.e. respec min assault). "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:23:00 - [45] - Quote Really don't understand how guys are saying "use ferros they have a higher value than shield extenders" when clearly the two different regen and rep are the issue?! Max rep on a gal assault is like 57 or something tops. That's 5 rep mods in the lows,... which is foolish?! You have to find a decent balance between armor and reps. The average fit that I see is 2 reps 3 ferros, 1 kin cat 2 ferros 2 reps, or many other desperately trying to survive and failing, combos. Shield suit's can now stack tons of shields, the average I see is like 500-600, and regen awful fast. With actual control over when their shields begin to regenerate. Armor starts to rep after you stop taking damage. Shields can start regen in the middle of a fire fight. Stacking armor is foolish due to movement penalty. So guys use ferros and reactives. So this false info going around that guys are rocking tons of armor plates is bs. I think the main point is that clearly shield suit's are now up to participate with NO penalty to strafe ability when they stack on as much shield protection as they want. While armor suit's are limited due to strafing penalties. You guys knew this already though. It's what you're hoping CCP doesn't notice, and I'd say you're good since CCP hasn't noticed how bad off this game is right now in terms of lag, glitches, and modifications. "Anybody order chaos?"
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:53:00 - [46] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time. Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Noone fits 5 shields either...not only because it'll cost 55 pg but because it is not effective either. You can fit 5 ferroscales and a triage and be ready to go. If by 'go' you mean 'die horribly against the first competent opponent' then yes, you can be 'ready to go' with a fit that horrible. Fitting 5x ferros and triage hives leaves you with basically no regen (let's not pretend that 2 HP/s is going to make any difference) and makes you entirely reliant on a limited and fragile deployable which tethers you to a point if you want to use it. Oh, and it takes just as much PG as the 5x shield extender fit that you think is so terrible. Few people fit 5x shield extenders because it is indeed a poor fit. It is still, however, more viable than the frankly moronic 5x ferroscales. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu


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