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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.13 19:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here.
How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2
These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it.......
the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up)
my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down
from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively
8 6 4 2
my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps
Reserved
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.13 20:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here.
How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2
These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up) my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively 8 6 4 2 my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
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Posted - 2015.10.13 22:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
I also approve of you.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.14 00:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Sicerly Yaw wrote:shields finally get a break and now someone is already looking for another crutch
armor works just fine if you don't like speed penalties use ferros and you always have the option to stack a kincat
just because shields got a reasonable buff doesn't mean armor needs to change as the two suits that are primarily armor tanks already have higher ehp and can rep without delay trough damge with a buff from rep tools
its not like the armor meta changed any if at all shiled suits still die just as fast, they only have better survive ability meaning they can walk away from skirmishes more often instead of being put out for half a minute at a time just to fully rep back up
shields still suffer form many of the old problems that many complained about and anti shield weapons can still take then down before they can react if you get the jump on em
oh and I might mention that a breach shotty can one shot most if not all shiled suits other then heavies, while the AR can still shred trough em with or without the RoF bonus
I dont even have to get into laser weaponry that should be obvious
the point is armor still has a lot more benefits then shields do and armor users will still not do well with shield suits due to the vastly different play styles involved and the learning curve that it takes to get used to the other when you constantly run only one or the other
the one thing I would give armor and all the suits for that matter is slightly better base armor reps Maybe he was one from my yesterday forge raid XD I'm honoured to be one of the victims your yesterday forge raid, nice shooting o7
I've been running strong sheild suits, strong armour suits, and general-purpose minmatar suits since foxfour landed.
They're all performing well, imo - 'specially that one whut gets the bonuses to the AR, but that's another sack of kittens.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.14 01:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
I also approve of you.
amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one
amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge
just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates
simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp
if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims
given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5
so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy
Reserved
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.14 03:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Shields have always been good....it's the counters to shields that has always been the underlying issue. Flux nades, suits maintaining their primary hp of armor coupled with ability to stack damage mods. In order for a shield tanker to try and keep up with that sort of dps, we have to sacrifice shields.
Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time.
^
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.14 05:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:True Adamance wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
I also approve of you. amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5 so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy Now that is fine and all but you do understand that there is now at in this game for the any suit at all to do resistance tanking, we don't have those kinds of modules. If resistance moduls were a thing then every race besides the amarr can have regen because I'll be using resistance more
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
62
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time.
Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Shields and armour are completely different things. I wouldn't compare them at all. Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier, but repairs slowly. That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different. The best shields will not necessarily be huge, but will have fast regen. Armour, however, has to be more "solid". |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
28
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote: Shields and armour are completely different things. I wouldn't compare them at all. Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier, but repairs slowly. That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different. The best shields will not necessarily be huge, but will have fast regen. Armour, however, has to be more "solid".
I disagree entirely with the notion that they're incomparable.
It's not a simple comparison - just saying 'this has more HP than that therefore it is better' is hardly accurate - but being a complex comparison doesn't mean they can't be compared at all, you just need to break it down into pieces.
Alena Asakura wrote: That's in fact the key to it - shields regen, armour repairs, and therein lies the issue. You can't compare two things that are so completely different.
Is that so different, honestly? Aside from the different words you chose to use to describe the action of recovering HP (which are interchangeable, really) is it so fundamentally different? They both recover HP in ticks. They're both the same mechanic, really, one just has a delay and the other doesn't.
Quote:Shields are fast regen but collapse in an instant with EM attacks (flux, laser), where armour is much hardier but repairs slowly. Does armour not potentially collapse in an instant as well? Bar the heaviest tanks (sentinels) no matter how you tank your dropsuit, when the right weapons are brought to bear it'll get vaporised. Airburst a locus grenade, even a standard one, over an armour suit and it'll get hit with 720 damage that can actually kill rather than damage, like a flux.
I suppose you could say that armour does indeed regen slowly compared to shields right now, but if you really want to run a rep fit it can regen at a fairly respectable rate without bringing outside assistance into the equation.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
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Posted - 2015.10.14 18:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:True Adamance wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote: Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
I also approve of you. amarr have the ability to stack almost twice as much ehp then min while min lose out on one tank or the other when focusing on just one amarr aren't rep tankers they are resistance tankers and higher hp means they can take more damge just as min have the second best shiled stats they should also have the second best armor rep rates simply because their role revolves around this rather then raw HP tanking as they generally have less base and total ehp if you don't understand that then you have no argument whatsoever and should let people that know what they are talking about continue informing you of such things rather then making misinformed claims given the current rep rates for armor both the amarr and min have the same rate on medium suits which is 2 same with scouts at 1 same with heavies at 1.5 so if you want to keep that as it is then simply give amarr and min the same rate and go from 8-2 with min and amarr in the middle at 5 or you could simply keep the consensus that amarr have more tank therefore should not be able to rep as fast so we can keep the parity of hp to rep rates while realizing that the amarr have more low slots and can still stack armor reps and still have more armor then a gal heavy
It's like you aren't even aware who you are talking to.... by the way Minmatar aren't typically Armour rep tankers. Their logi ship are all shield based and they have few if no notable examples of content that specifically related to armour rep bonuses.
Thus there is no reason why they should have better rep values that any other race particularly the Amarr who specialize in armour use.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Ateroith
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
281
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Posted - 2015.10.14 18:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Armor! Armor! Armor!
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 20:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time.
Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison.
Noone fits 5 shields either...not only because it'll cost 55 pg but because it is not effective either. You can fit 5 ferroscales and a triage and be ready to go.
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time.
Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison.
Preaching to the choir bro lol! Guys like sincerely only only want to hear logic when it pertains to them. Your point here is as valid as they come, but these guys will just start saying things like"QQ" and "htfu" lol!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Sicerly Yaw wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:I'm going to make a not so very thought out suggestion here.
How about we give each race more passive armor regen? Cal:1 Min:1 Gal:2 or 3 Amarr:2
These are assault suits by the way What is that intended to achieve? Well I mean I was just suggesting higher armour regen but like I said I haven't properly thought of it....... the reason armor suits should have higher base regens are for two main reasons the sake of survival and self sustainability (relying less on equipment to rep back up) my suggestion would be to start from the top and work our way down from gal to min to amarr to cal respectively 8 6 4 2 my thought for this is to keep things in line with gal suits being the best for passive reps on armor side and cal being the worst while min duel tank and amarr focus more on raw hp rather then passive reps Pretty sure amarr should have more armor regen than min. Because if they had this high regen they would have shield,stamina and armor regen better than amarr.
Too much logic, forum warriors can't compute this much logic. All you'll get is "htfu", "the min assault is not OP cause I said so", and "get gud scrub" (i.e. respec min assault).
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Really don't understand how guys are saying "use ferros they have a higher value than shield extenders" when clearly the two different regen and rep are the issue?!
Max rep on a gal assault is like 57 or something tops. That's 5 rep mods in the lows,... which is foolish?! You have to find a decent balance between armor and reps. The average fit that I see is 2 reps 3 ferros, 1 kin cat 2 ferros 2 reps, or many other desperately trying to survive and failing, combos.
Shield suit's can now stack tons of shields, the average I see is like 500-600, and regen awful fast. With actual control over when their shields begin to regenerate. Armor starts to rep after you stop taking damage. Shields can start regen in the middle of a fire fight.
Stacking armor is foolish due to movement penalty. So guys use ferros and reactives. So this false info going around that guys are rocking tons of armor plates is bs.
I think the main point is that clearly shield suit's are now up to participate with NO penalty to strafe ability when they stack on as much shield protection as they want. While armor suit's are limited due to strafing penalties.
You guys knew this already though. It's what you're hoping CCP doesn't notice, and I'd say you're good since CCP hasn't noticed how bad off this game is right now in terms of lag, glitches, and modifications.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
28
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Armor tanking has been and still is the superior of the two. "Punished for using plates" lol....How??? Ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and they yield more hp than shield extenders, while utilizing less cpu/pg at the same time.
Why do people always insist on directly comparing these two based purely on HP? The inherent regen of shields is the counterbalance to this. Nobody fits 5x ferros because it's a completely awful fit, while 5x extenders is actually viable. Why? Because shields actually have a reasonable regen rate built-in while armour has a pitiful base regen. Regenerating 2 health a second out of a health pool of 700 is simply a stupid fit, while having a delayed regen of ~40 HP/s works and can work well, even. Directly comparing ferros with shield extenders and going 'armour is better becuz it has big numbers' is a moronic comparison. Noone fits 5 shields either...not only because it'll cost 55 pg but because it is not effective either. You can fit 5 ferroscales and a triage and be ready to go.
If by 'go' you mean 'die horribly against the first competent opponent' then yes, you can be 'ready to go' with a fit that horrible.
Fitting 5x ferros and triage hives leaves you with basically no regen (let's not pretend that 2 HP/s is going to make any difference) and makes you entirely reliant on a limited and fragile deployable which tethers you to a point if you want to use it. Oh, and it takes just as much PG as the 5x shield extender fit that you think is so terrible.
Few people fit 5x shield extenders because it is indeed a poor fit. It is still, however, more viable than the frankly moronic 5x ferroscales.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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