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DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
3
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Posted - 2015.10.04 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is an amazing hidden gem !
A shot in the tanks weak spot can one **** a soma with no hardeners and deal considerable amounts of damage to any vehicles !
But that is not all , the best thing about is vehicle users don't expect it , due to how unpopular it is.
In the last few days , I've 2 shotted plenty f Pythons and Incubuses thinking it was just a regular forge.
The biggest downside to this weapon though is the fact that you can't move while charging and holding a shot.
I think that is way to much of a penalty and the reason people don't use this gun as much. It is to easy for snipers to target us while we stand still.
My proposed solution would be for us to stand still ONLY for the charged shot and then be able to move with it once it's charged.
Gives it more mobility and helps with the aiming against dropships at long range.
What do you guys think ?
Skirmishers Unite !
Help me revive our beloved gamemode.
Chat: Skirmish Queue
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Unholy HateGore
highland marines
35
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Posted - 2015.10.04 13:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
DAAAA BEAST wrote:Is an amazing hidden gem !
A shot in the tanks weak spot can one **** a soma with no hardeners and deal considerable amounts of damage to any vehicles !
But that is not all , the best thing about is vehicle users don't expect it , due to how unpopular it is.
In the last few days , I've 2 shotted plenty f Pythons and Incubuses thinking it was just a regular forge.
The biggest downside to this weapon though is the fact that you can't move while charging and holding a shot.
I think that is way to much of a penalty and the reason people don't use this gun as much. It is to easy for snipers to target us while we stand still.
My proposed solution would be for us to stand still ONLY for the charged shot and then be able to move with it once it's charged.
Gives it more mobility and helps with the aiming against dropships at long range.
What do you guys think ?
I like the Breach on a Minm heavy. Can put dam mods on the left and cardio on the right for jumping. you cant walk or run charged but you can jump instead |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
819
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Posted - 2015.10.04 13:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
The long charge is enough of a penalty, the immobilisation is excessive.
Purifier. First Class.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
392
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Posted - 2015.10.04 14:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
No, in my opinion.
The breach is something that puts FEAR into people. That thing hits like a truck. Trust me, if there's any AV i run away from and it isn't swarms, it's definitely a breach.
It's alpha capabilities is enough to say stop moving. When i see 2.3k damage coming my way, i run. 2 shotting inky (1 shot on armor if base aHP) is a weapon that demands respect.
Now, taking out my personal experience... I say no because it will be a strong basic forge with longer charge time.. I just don't see that much reason to change it.
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
953
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Posted - 2015.10.04 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Or just allow reduced movement during charge and whilst holding charge, but increase base charge time to compensate? Immobolisation is excessive, but making a weapon with that kind of alpha strike easier to use might cause more problems than it solves.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
891
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Posted - 2015.10.06 07:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
The no walking is too punitive for the breach to be viable, because as a heavy position is key to take down vehicles and not being able to move is a gift to snipers
Which is a shame as current vehicle mechanics mean alpha damage is very effective.
30% of walking speed woul probably be a more balance drawback
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
881
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Posted - 2015.10.06 11:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
The breach needs a few tweak :
+ More Range then the normal forge gun 400m
+ Original 3.0 Splash Damage applied within 50m of shot
- Charge Smoke animation needs to be re applied to the gun
- Vaper Trails added into the animation of the gun
= Visual Effect Change for Different Color like Dark Blue
In general all forge guns need the orignal charge time returned and splash. Tanks need a little more HP and some dropships need a damage resistance applied about 15% at max level.
Tell you what the breach forge gun is missing from my montage video..
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
3
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Posted - 2015.10.06 12:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:The breach needs a few tweak :
+ More Range then the normal forge gun 400m
+ Original 3.0 Splash Damage applied within 50m of shot
- Charge Smoke animation needs to be re applied to the gun
- Vaper Trails added into the animation of the gun
= Visual Effect Change for Different Color like Dark Blue
In general all forge guns need the orignal charge time returned and splash. Tanks need a little more HP and some dropships need a damage resistance applied about 15% at max level.
Tell you what the breach forge gun is missing from my montage video..
I would see no problem with all of these.
Skilled forgers should have the option to use a gun that might be harder for most and reward good , placed shots.
Skirmishers Unite !
Help me revive our beloved gamemode.
Chat: Skirmish Queue
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
882
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Posted - 2015.10.06 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks, I'd like to see some red or blue tags cause the forge needs some love. I'm looking for images of the old Charge Smoke that use to be in used for the Forge. The effect needed to grow larger as the Forge Gunner held in the charge. That was missing back in the day cause the effect was to small to be noticed by snipers. It was the same smoke effect used by the Saga II's specialized deflection field when it was first released.
Not sure if they would need to code in the breach doing a double shot to simulate the splash only being applied within 50m. One shot with a range that started between 0 and 50m for applied damage and the second damage being applied at 50m to 400m. For the player experience it's just one shot but backend whatever way they need to rig it to get the damage to apply correctly at different distances.
Also, I always hoped they would do what they did with the passive scanning by having two radiuses for damage application. Like 150% applied within 1.5m and 50% applied 1.5m to 3m.
Lots of tweaks can be done. Just it's about getting the attention and time for some of the devs to iron out a path in the upcoming patches.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
413
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Posted - 2015.10.06 21:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would love to see the forge gun get the love it needs. The problem is all the crying vehicle pilots and stupid personal agendas, like someone who used to be a CPM complaining on Fox Four thread to get his swarms more range and stating Forge Guns are OP.
The forge gun gets hate because it blows people up in one shot, but they don't realize all that goes into forge gunning.
I even love the stupid (Absolutely idiotic comments), about how easy forge gun sniping is! Anyone who lets that happen, did not move. You have a non-ads (aim down sights) weapon at a range my RR would eat alive walking at a slow speed holding a single shot, with a hip fire weapon, and a 4-5 shot clip. Yeah, some people just hate for personal reasons.
The breach forge and all forges deserve the return of the splash damage. The MD is getting vehicle damage, so the splash would make the forge a heavy's MD. Anyone who supports the MD should be supporting the forge gun getting splash.
Question is, if you could get splash or rnage, what would you choose?
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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IR Scifi
OSG Planetary Operations
213
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Posted - 2015.10.06 21:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:
The breach forge and all forges deserve the return of the splash damage. The MD is getting vehicle damage, so the splash would make the forge a heavy's MD. Anyone who supports the MD should be supporting the forge gun getting splash.
Question is, if you could get splash or rnage, what would you choose?
Why not a bit of both, Assault for splash, Breach for range?
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
884
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Posted - 2015.10.06 22:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:...
I totally understand! Yeah some vehicle users cried alot harder then others on the formus. As far as forge gunning goes I been trying to fill as much forge gun gameplay as I can on my channel until the end of the year school/homelife permitting.
Anything to give vehicles a microbuff and for Forge Guns to be returned to pre 1.7 would be ideal. Still though not to derail to much I think if we can get a list of good tweaks for the breach we'll try and get some support moving for a upcoming patch.
I think we organize this well enough we might see some progress. 
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
414
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Posted - 2015.10.07 13:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
IR Scifi wrote:Balistyc Farshot wrote:
The breach forge and all forges deserve the return of the splash damage. The MD is getting vehicle damage, so the splash would make the forge a heavy's MD. Anyone who supports the MD should be supporting the forge gun getting splash.
Question is, if you could get splash or rnage, what would you choose?
Why not a bit of both, Assault for splash, Breach for range?
I think that would be ideal. The return of the splash would make the AFG a suppression weapon that requires timing. The range on the BFG would make it the super long range hand held rail sniper.
Mobility and long range suppression is currently king. This can be seen with the RR and SCR racking up the most kills lately. Since mobility is absolutely removed from the breach it should be given the range buff it requires.
I would also ask to change some of the skills bonuses. I would like to see a skill to increase the Forge Guns mobility while charged. That would be a cool skill and would really set apart those who are prof 5 versus those who aren't. Otherwise we will continue to myo our heavies and do the jump dance. (Sorry to recommend a nerf, but that should perhaps be taken away.)
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
887
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Posted - 2015.10.07 14:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:[quote=IR Scifi]
I would also ask to change some of the skills bonuses. I would like to see a skill to increase the Forge Guns mobility while charged. That would be a cool skill and would really set apart those who are prof 5 versus those who aren't. Otherwise we will continue to myo our heavies and do the jump dance. (Sorry to recommend a nerf, but that should perhaps be taken away.)
I have to disagree, Put a green bottle and 3 blue bottles and a damage mod on a Cal sentinel with a damage mod. Mobile increases for the breach.
The mobility decrease evens out the power of the forge gun allowing other forge gun snipers to get hits on you and snipers to pick you off. It's one of the factors that balances out the weapon. Seriously the charge time needs to decrease for the AFG and FG. If you add greater mobility you'll move the gun from being underpowered to being holly #$2# over powered.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
838
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Posted - 2015.10.07 15:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:
I think that would be ideal. The return of the splash would make the AFG a suppression weapon that requires timing. The range on the BFG would make it the super long range hand held rail sniper.
AFG never lost its splash, only the vanilla and BFG because they could camp up high, hold a charge and wait for someone to walk below before hitting them with splash damage from mulitple Forges.
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Mobility and long range suppression is currently king. This can be seen with the RR and SCR racking up the most kills lately. Since mobility is absolutely removed from the breach it should be given the range buff it requires.
I'd like to see the immobilisation removed on the Breach, more than anything. Extra range on the Breach would probably just enrage Rail Tankers.
Purifier. First Class.
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
508
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Posted - 2015.10.08 10:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
DAAAA BEAST wrote:Is an amazing hidden gem !
A shot in the tanks weak spot can one **** a soma with no hardeners and deal considerable amounts of damage to any vehicles !
But that is not all , the best thing about is vehicle users don't expect it , due to how unpopular it is.
In the last few days , I've 2 shotted plenty f Pythons and Incubuses thinking it was just a regular forge.
The biggest downside to this weapon though is the fact that you can't move while charging and holding a shot.
I think that is way to much of a penalty and the reason people don't use this gun as much. It is to easy for snipers to target us while we stand still.
My proposed solution would be for us to stand still ONLY for the charged shot and then be able to move with it once it's charged.
Gives it more mobility and helps with the aiming against dropships at long range.
What do you guys think ?
Pythons and Incubuses don't know what just shooted them because they have ****** camera, swarms and forgegun line effect that shows pilot direction of shooter don't always appear , so pilot need to ask squadmates about shooter position.
When you charging or you have charget shot in your BFG you can move by jumping, not by walking... IMO it's sad,it's very sad that some CCP programmer spend his entire day on making BFG player not be able to move, and then someone showed him that it is possible to jump.. 
G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Haolo Geardreck
Calvary Won't Arrive
0
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
The fluff mentions the sniper rifle firing at 2000m/s and the forge gun fires at 7000m/s, so why is the sniper bullet there instantly yet you can watch the forge slug fly? Now, instead of splash damage, I was thinking.. a slug moving that fast would displace air so hard that it could damage dropsuits it passes close to. So instead of a splash you'd have a cylinder of flyby damage and if it hit a soft target (dropsuit) it would turn all of that tech and clone into a shotgun, basically a cone of splash damage continuing straight through the target. But hard targets would not provide this splash.
A sniper rifle is considered to 'effectively weaponize kinetic energy', yet this thing is a bigger slug moving at about 4.35 miles per second..
Also, how can a monster like that have an effective range? Its have to be a space battle with miles between ships for distance to matter. It's a handheld railcannon for crying out loud! Treat it like one.
G Commando/Sentinel, A Assault/Logistics, M Scout
- Terrible FPS gamer
- Decent Strategy gamer
- Good RPG gamer
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
440
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Haolo Geardreck wrote:The fluff mentions the sniper rifle firing at 2000m/s and the forge gun fires at 7000m/s, so why is the sniper bullet there instantly yet you can watch the forge slug fly? Now, instead of splash damage, I was thinking.. a slug moving that fast would displace air so hard that it could damage dropsuits it passes close to. So instead of a splash you'd have a cylinder of flyby damage and if it hit a soft target (dropsuit) it would turn all of that tech and clone into a shotgun, basically a cone of splash damage continuing straight through the target. But hard targets would not provide this splash.
A sniper rifle is considered to 'effectively weaponize kinetic energy', yet this thing is a bigger slug moving at about 4.35 miles per second..
Also, how can a monster like that have an effective range? Its have to be a space battle with miles between ships for distance to matter. It's a handheld railcannon for crying out loud! Treat it like one.
To be correct, it's a handheld mining railgun weaponized. |
CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.10.09 11:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:The long charge is enough of a penalty, the immobilisation is excessive.
This.
I am a big time forge user and the immobilisation of the breach is too harsh to make it viable in most games. This aspect is all that needs looking at however as the actual weapon is tasty.
Please for all let me be very clear - The ONLY issue to be looked at imo is the movement penalty while charging. The weapon needs no additional buffs or anything like that.
This is the turning point, the rising of the tide.
No fear inside
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 14:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've mentioned that the breach should get more range for the trade off of being lower in DPS compared to an assault FG or the normal variant.
I still think that's the best course of action regarding this weapon. Rattati seemed keen to the idea. |
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I've mentioned that the breach should get more range for the trade off of being lower in DPS compared to an assault FG or the normal variant.
I still think that's the best course of action regarding this weapon. Rattati seemed keen to the idea. Are you really quite sure about this? When exactly do you need additional range with the BFG, or a FG at all?
I'm a bit touchy on the topic because on some maps even now a single forgegunner can deny all non-redline airspace to a dropship, which is really quite frustrating. In general though I don't think pixel sniping is the sort of gameplay we should encourage. On the same topic I'd also like to bring railguns a bit closer to the action, but ideally without imposing hard range limits - I'm more thinking along the lines of travel time or a minor firing arch. |
Haolo Geardreck
Calvary Won't Arrive
4
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:I've mentioned that the breach should get more range for the trade off of being lower in DPS compared to an assault FG or the normal variant.
I still think that's the best course of action regarding this weapon. Rattati seemed keen to the idea. Are you really quite sure about this? When exactly do you need additional range with the BFG, or a FG at all? I'm a bit touchy on the topic because on some maps even now a single forgegunner can deny all non-redline airspace to a dropship, which is really quite frustrating. In general though I don't think pixel sniping is the sort of gameplay we should encourage. On the same topic I'd also like to bring railguns a bit closer to the action, but ideally without imposing hard range limits - I'm more thinking along the lines of travel time or a minor firing arch.
Well its a rail gun, a heavy one, fired at about 3.5x the speed of the sniper rifle.. why should range be an issue on these tiny maps? A good sniper can take out anyone not hiding behind a wall anywhere within rendering distance. In fact, I've accidentally gotten a shot on a guy too far away to render, immediately got an assist for it. And the forge gun is pretty much a larger, scopeless version of that. Perhaps lower the accuracy of them with the breach being more accurate, explaining the immobilization effect.
Let's not discuss range. Just the fact I can watch it travel bothers me.. should close a 400m gap in 0.057s
G Commando/Sentinel, A Assault/Logistics, M Scout
- Terrible FPS gamer
- Decent Strategy gamer
- Good RPG gamer
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
897
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Posted - 2015.10.09 16:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:[quote=Tebu Gan]....on some maps even now a single forgegunner can deny all non-redline airspace to a dropship,....
Which maps? Even when camped in the redline pretty much all maps I can call in a ADS from behind some cover and GTFO while being Forge camped.
Are you talking initial spawn point or the entire redline?
I'm saying you can tweak the partial effect of the charge up for the breach so it can be seen from a distance once it's fully charged.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
852
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Posted - 2015.10.09 16:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:I've mentioned that the breach should get more range for the trade off of being lower in DPS compared to an assault FG or the normal variant.
I still think that's the best course of action regarding this weapon. Rattati seemed keen to the idea. Are you really quite sure about this? When exactly do you need additional range with the BFG, or a FG at all?
When dealing Rail tanks?
A Rail tank usually doesn't have much to worry vs a Forge since they both have the same range but the Rail has quicker initial charge, no need to charge follow up shots and other benefits, meaning they have no long range counter that isn't another Rail or an OB.
Giving the BFG extra range would make it a Rail tank's counter, while the slow charge and immobilisation of the BFG combined with the general sluggishness of the Sentinel and only having a sidearm for close range defence keeps it from being OP. Get up close and it's pretty screwed. Plus, the render range on infamtry means that extra range won't make the BFG a Heavy Sniper since it won't see anyone further that it already foes.
I think Tebu might trying to set up the AFG for closer range (point defence, ADS counter , Blaster tank hunting etc) with the vanilla for general denial and longer range combat with the BFG for extreme range overwatch and Rail counter.
Purifier. First Class.
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